Best Milled AK for $700 or less?

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I do know a milled receiver is superior, and I do know that SLR95 is a great rifle. So do any of you experienced AK nuts out there have any other suggestions for quality milled rifles with good barrels for $700 or less? New or used. Not looking to modify an import like the Saiga (and looking for better quality)

.... um No.

Saiga's are the highest quality new AK's you can get nowadays (unless your going waay over your budget) because the guts of the gun came off a military assembly line. With a Saiga the mil-spec barrel, receiver and trunnions were all assembled together and 922r compliant furniture is added to get them into the country, when you "convert" one back to its original configuration you are just switching out the stock and trigger bits. If you buy any other new AK the original receiver and barrel are cut when they are imported, and the importer, Century, puts together a new rifle with a new receiver and barrel made by the lowest bidder and slaps on the furniture from the chopped up imported kit.

There is absolutely no practical reason to mill an AK receiver. AKM's were designed to have a stamped receiver. Nobody has ever worn out a stamped AK receiver, there is no accuracy difference- It's an AK after all. If you like the look of a milled receiver that's one thing, but it's the same as having chromed plastic bull bars on your truck.

If I were in the market for a new AK, I'd get one of the Saiga's converted by Classicarms.us going for $450. http://classicarms.us/semi-auto rifles.htm. The $800 Arsenal and vz58 look pretty good too, if you want to spend a bit more.

 

[RobGR]

I have a Henderson "certified" Century gun. I am not sure what they certified about it. Total pile of crap.

Really, was it a Century AK? I have suggested their site to a few entry level AK buyers who are set on buying over the web blindly. Disappointing to hear.

 

[barnetmill]

If you want a quality AK I can recommend two gunsmiths (PM ME) that will rework within reason the errors out of existing AKs. There are likely no AKs on the market today that are consistently good w/o being made right. Most overseas arsenal made AKs will go bang when fired, but many will not group into 3MOA. A properly made Ak with decent ammo will.
There is an advantage to "some" milled AK as that are made in Finland that have threaded barrels and can shoot with good ammo 1 MOA groups. Otherwise stick to the Saiga guns and have a competent gunsmith rework them into something that is superior.

 

[atblis]

Really, was it a Century AK? I have suggested their site to a few entry level AK buyers who are set on buying over the web blindly. Disappointing to hear.

Golani. After speaking to them on the phone, as it turns out their "certification" process is nothing more than a cursory glance. Maybe they check that the front sight post is on straight, but that's about it.

 

[rsilvers]

"I do know a milled receiver is superior"

No, it is heavier - and the stamped receiver already lasts forever.

 

[nathan]

I would say, a nice unrefurbished Russian SKS is more desirable than a milled AK. It s more accurate and handles well .

 

[Strykervet]

I appreciate the answers guys. On the milled vs. stamped, we will just have to agree to disagree. My logical scientific mind tells me that solid steel cut into shape is stronger than thinner steel stamped into shape. They went to stamped, by the way, because it cost too much to make them milled. According the "the man" himself, milled was desireable. Also, it is much easier for a developing country to make AK's than almost any other infantry rifle, best bang for the buck as it were. Oh yeah, you can most definitely wear out a stamped receiver. They are tough, but they aren't invincible to the elements or the laws of physics. It is the torsion that kills it over time --but I doubt the guy will ever fire it enough to do this. But I don't know. The guy is SF and it wouldn't surprise me if he took the rifle with him to the range or on deployment and shot five cases in one sitting. When you're bored and have access to lots of free ammo, well, it makes a man do strange things... Been there, done that! Spendex!!!

The SLR95, for those of you that haven't fired one, is an amazing rifle. Not your average AK, and I've owned a few and they were better built than some of the junk that comes in today --I know, I've seen 'em. The NHM91 Match wasn't bad, but the SLR95 was actually accurate, it was a nice rifle. I'd like one myself, truth be told, but have no desire for a Saiga. The AK's of the '90's seemed to be better and cheaper, I think those days were THE days for the AK in this country, the M4 has taken over by and large today though. The problem was they came in during the ban with those stupid stocks and weren't as popular as they would have been, but the ones that did come in were real nice for the most part. There weren't many parts guns back then, there were Norinco, Polytech, Arsenal, and a couple of others. Mostly quality builds, blued and such (not assembled first, then painted like the Saiga, my cheif complaint, that is just CHEAP no matter how you look at it, sorry). Some actually had very nice blued jobs. The Arsenal was the first one I'd ever seen without blueing in fact. The first Romanian AK74's weren't too bad either, considering.

Based on the answers on here, it would seem that the SLR95 and NHM91 would be the way to go... For milled. Any other recommendations would be appreciated, but please keep it to milled AK47 rifles. Unless there is some fantastic stamped model for a really killer price that requires no modifications.

 

[rsilvers]

Since milled is stronger than stamped, then why not make it even stronger by making it milled twice as thick?

Answer: because stamped is strong enough to last hundreds of thousands of rounds - and so you may as well take the weight savings.

At 25 cents a round, you would have to spend $75,000 to shoot 300,000 rounds of ammo.

 

[Maverick223]

Since milled is stronger than stamped, then why not make it even stronger by making it milled twice as thick?

Answer: because stamped is strong enough to last hundreds of thousands of rounds - and so you may as well take the weight savings.

Bingo. Even the FA, mil. spec. AKM as well as the LMG/DMR variants (RPK & PSL respectively) use a stamped receiver, albeit a bit thicker. This certainly wouldn't be the case if they were inferior in any way, as the aforementioned are designed for sustained fire, something far more severe than anything the average user can dish out. Additionally, the milled receiver won't last forever either, as it will eventually wear and peen. In the grand scheme of things, it's a small price to pay for a new rifle after you shoot 100,000 rounds...during which time you'll need several barrels (to retain any form of accuracy anyway).

If milled is what you want just because you like it better so be it, but there isn't any notable advantage and there are several disadvantages.

 

[Strykervet]

Since milled is stronger than stamped, then why not make it even stronger by making it milled twice as thick?

Answer: because stamped is strong enough to last hundreds of thousands of rounds - and so you may as well take the weight savings.

At 25 cents a round, you would have to spend $75,000 to shoot 300,000 rounds of ammo.

Well, that already happens. If I recall correctly, there ARE stamped receivers that are twice (or close) as thick as the regular ones. RPK and Tabuk come to mind.

Why not make the milled twice as thick? Because it is already thick enough, it was the stamped receivers that were deemed too thin for accurate shooting (Tabuk) or very high volume shooting (RPK).

Finally, if stamped is so great, why don't we use it on a lot more quality weapons? Because it isn't, stamping metal is for saving money, not for increasing strength. It is an engineering vs. accounting compromise.

Please keep this thread to a discussion about particular weapons and their prices. An arguement about stamped vs. milled isn't going to help me find this guy a rifle. You can't change my mind about the strength, I just know better from experience. What I don't know is the current AK market, I got rid of mine like I said years ago (and like I said, deeply regret selling the SLR95, even at a profit).

 

[Maverick223]

Finally, if stamped is so great, why don't we use it on a lot more quality weapons? Because it isn't, stamping metal is for saving money, not for increasing strength. It is an engineering vs. accounting compromise.

Are you saying that the HK PSG-1 (& MSG-90, amongst others) is a shoddy rifle...I've heard it called many a thing, but that's not one of 'em. Truth is a very nice rifle can be made using stamped parts, it largely depends upon the design, specifications, and execution. In all honesty the AK in any form is unremarkable in most respects, it was simply produced in very high numbers and has a good record for reliability (despite what is often stated, it is NOT alone in this regard).

You can't change my mind about the strength, I just know better from experience.

Please elaborate, I would love to hear about all the stamped AKs (or any other quality design for that matter) that you have destroyed.

 

[valnar]

Finally, if stamped is so great, why don't we use it on a lot more quality weapons? Because it isn't, stamping metal is for saving money, not for increasing strength. It is an engineering vs. accounting compromise.

This is 100% correct. No manufacturer is choosing stamped because of its inherent superiority. They are choosing it because it is cheap & good enough for the application. If there was a way you could make stamped & milled parts in the same amount of time for the same amount of money, nobody would choose stamped.

Now, I don't own a stamped AK (or any AK), but I read somewhere that the flex makes it hard to keep a zero when scoped. Milled receivers - less of a problem. Anyone want to chime in on that?

 

[Maverick223]

Now, I don't own a stamped AK (or any AK), but I read somewhere that the flex makes it hard to keep a zero when scoped. Milled receivers - less of a problem. Anyone want to chime in on that?

The problem is resonance (which might be exacerbated by the stamped receiver, but design flaws are the root problem) and a poorly designed mounting system (which was apparently an afterthought). FWIW, the mount is a milled casting, so stamped parts have little to do with it.

 

[RobGR]

Strykervet, all SLR and SLG Arsenals are banned in California. SGLs, however, are not. Norincos are also outlawed here, sadly. (http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi?Yes=Yes&qq=2) I have an SGL 31 and love shooting it. I totally agree with you in regard to quality, if I had to choose between a WASR and an SLR, hell, it's not even a hard decision, the SLR of course. WASRs are honestly a pathetic AK but still the cheapest on the market, especially when you are looking for milled under $700. But Century is so questionable in their QC and the customer service. I think I said before though, I would not hesitate to pick up another DRACO, 100% built in Romania and has a dimpled y receiver. You could also legally convert it to a rifle without issue if wanting to. Shops are finally getting them on the shelves again in CA. They have to be imported into CA and sold as a single shot with a sled..... these damned laws here. Another AK that is highly valued are the VEPRs, available from Atlantic Firearms as well. A little pricey though.

Shelf appeal and value will always go the way of a milled receiver, but for a semi auto firearm (even full auto), the stamped receiver is just fine and will last many years.

Golani. After speaking to them on the phone, as it turns out their "certification" process is nothing more than a cursory glance. Maybe they check that the front sight post is on straight, but that's about it.

Uh, yeah, sorry to hear that. Those things are just like every other Century build (built here in the USA), so hit or miss. I once saw one that was gtg and then the next weekend checked out a different one and it was an utter piece of garbage. I couldn't even rack the thing, the carrier was stuck to the rails. Maybe you could send it to a gunsmith who could give it a thorough overhaul, but that will cost you $500... maybe worth it though. Just find someone who knows Galils, maybe Arizona Response Systems.

 

[InkEd]

What you need to buy is an Arsenal SGL-21. Period.

 

[atlanticfire]

I'm a milled person, never believed in the whole Saiga fan base. But to get a rifle that’s a significant improvement it’s going to cost a lot more. If your heart is set on milled get milled.

 

[Strykervet]

This is in WA, forget about CA. The SA M7 SF that was $3500MSRP was "SF" as in "Special Forces" I think. The guy is SF actually, but I think his girlfriend is wanting to stay under $1000 (and I told her not to pay that much for any AK).

I looked at the SGL21. Stamped, no go.

Does Arsenal not make a similar rifle to the SLR95 but in military configuration? As a US company, I can't believe they don't. I just couldn't find it on their website, but that isn't to say they built 'em up until last year.

At the moment, she's been trying to bid on 'em, but hasn't had luck obtaining one yet. Still time to go though. In the $600ish range, I think she'll be doing pretty well if she finds one that has been used little. It's making me want one now, I don't have AK's anymore either, but that is a fine rifle...

If there is another milled Arsenal I need to look into, I'd appreciate model numbers.

 

[RobGR]

Okay, now I'm clear on what SF stands for and will drop the whole CA laws issue. Location helps.

Gunbroker has a few SLR95s up for auction right now. There's actually one listed for $600, used. There's one on there that is listed as NIB – Price $1299.95, funnily enough, seller is in CA.

I have no other suggestions in regard to quality milled AKs at that price range. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

 

[Strykervet]

Hey thanks RobGR. The lady did in fact pick up one today, the bidding kept getting up to the $800 range so she waited and jumped in on a couple and quit when it went above $760ish. She got one today for $766 and I think it came with some stuff, hopefully a regular black stock and grip with some mags.

There were some that went up for $600 "buy it now" but they went REAL fast, like just minutes. I told her to be patient, but she is kind of running shy of time given that she has to have it sent, pick it up, etc. She also understands the weapon has to belong to her, at least until they marry I guess.

This case is solved I suppose, and I learned there aren't too many of these good milled AK's out there so perhaps I should grab one while everyone else is still in Saiga's headlights!

Thanks to all that replied, I (and she) appreciates the help.

 

[spyderdude]

I have a Polish 1960 that has a milled receiver. It's a well built gun but it is a bit on the heavy side. The AK I had before that was the Romanian WASR 10 and it wasn't as well built as the Polish I got now but it was lighter. I don't think milled has any structural advantages over stamped but its been said that milled AKs tend to be more accurate due to the added rigidity.

 

[RobGR]

Great to hear she got one, Strykervet. I wonder if she could have it engraved too to add something special to it.

Good luck in your search as well and let us know if you do end up getting one. A preban milled Norinco with the spike bayonet might be a great addition to your collection. If they weren't illegal in CA, I'd definitely get one.... ah these laws here. That's my personal preference, however, there are obviously some that are more collectable.

 

[1911crazy]

check out the polish AK's from century there is a review of one XD talk and it's quite nice if i remember correctly

 

[Strykervet]

Yeah, she got it. I think he'll be happy with it. I know for a fact they are great rifles, I was an AK fan when I was younger before I defected to AR's and the best two I had were that SLR95, it was the best, and then a Norinco NHM91, milled receiver and match grade barrel. I had a Romanian AK74, one of the first imported, got it for $250 NIB with stuff? Great deal, that little thing was cheap but it did really well, almost no recoil. Now considering I'm a long range shooter, and I shoot pretty well if I may blow my own horn, the AR platform simply works better than the AK does.

But I also have a love affair with SDM rifles. I've got a few, an M4, a 6.5 Grendel (my dream SDM rifle, my favorite rifle in fact, and the brass is basically modified AK brass but the round is much, much more accurate) and an accurized FAL. I'd like to add some more, including a Tabuk-esque rifle and a Romanian PSL, but that SLR 95 was just a better rifle, however, the NHM91 was made for that and would be suitable for a Tabuk... Ahh, dilemmas. I suppose I could mod the SLR by welding a scope mount onto it, and the NHM would need it too come to think of it.

This dude, his wife and his AK. Why'd she have to ask me? Now I want one, and I just sold off a huge box of AK and AK74 parts, furniture, accessories and stripper clips for over 2000 rounds! Dammit!

 

[Strykervet]

check out the polish AK's from century there is a review of one XD talk and it's quite nice if i remember correctly

If you got a Century and it works, consider yourself lucky. Some work, a lot don't. I had an HK91 built by them and it was built using some of the worst, dirty, and basically junk parts. They didn't even clean the parts, let alone refinish and fit them carefully. The welds were horrible. I got rid of it fast, it was $400 but not worth it. I think that AK74 I had was imported by Century, but they didn't build it. Thank God. It actually worked pretty well, and was only about $250 NIB in the late '90's, a steal actually.

I'd steer clear of anything with Century on it though, based on experience with them it is like flipping a coin. There are a lot of junk buiders in the AK and AR market today. They may look similar, but they don't work, wear, and shoot similar to good stuff. And now the prices are pretty similar --but buyer beware. Some of those ban era rifles are much, much better, all you have to do is swap out some parts and the furniture and you can have an excellent AK.

I haven't used any of the newer ones, I've seen a lot at gunshows but I wasn't impressed. The only two that stand out in my mind out of the several I owned in the past and all the ones I've used and seen, the SLR95 and the NHM91, in that order, were the best. The milled receivers were a plus, but also consider these rifles were built well from buttplate to muzzle brake, the SLR had a Steyr chrome lined barrel and the NHM had a "match grade" (Chinese match grade anyway) barrel.

I also had a Norinco RPK that wasn't TOO bad... It had a stamped receiver and a longer, heavier barrel and bipod. It could put some lead downrange too, and wasn't too bad as far as accuracy for an AK goes with iron sights.