Best powder for 9mm with 147 gr. cast bullets?

[John Wayne]

I'm using Georgia Arms cast bullets in my Springfield XDM9 and looking to develop a good practice load. These bullets come pre-lubed and sized to .355. They may not be the best, but I use 'em 'cause they're dirt cheap ($28 per 500), so I'm not looking to try any different bullets--I want to find a powder that works with these. Bullet style is LRNFP.

My only qualifications are that it not lead the barrel. I will be using these loads for practice and steel challenge matches.

It would be really nice if there is a powder that also works well for .38 special or .357 magnum with 158 gr. LSWC cast bullets (also from Georgia Arms). I know one powder may not be ideal for both, but I would rather be able to buy one in bulk, save money, and be able to use it for both than buy smaller quantities of optimized powders for each caliber.

Any recommendations?

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I've used Red Dot in both 9mm and .357 for cast slugs with good results but 124gr in 9mm. these were 'target' load velocitys nothing near max load.

 

[NuJudge]

If your bullets are .355", they're probably small for your groove diameter, so they will probably Lead with just about any powder you use. Slugging bores, I find groove diameters of .357" and .358" on most of my 9mm pistols.

If the bullets are really soft and mark deeply with a finger nail, you might be able to get them to upset to a larger diameter by using a really fast powder. I would suggest Bullseye, but be really careful you do not double charge with this powder.

Something that has been suggested to me is Tumble Lubing with Lee Liquid Alox bullets that are a bit undersized for a particular groove diameter. I am about to try this with 147gr bullets from a SAECO mold I have and with a huge quantity of 124gr TC bullets I bought.

 

[bluetopper]

Bullet selection is infinitely more critical to barrel leading than powder selection.

That being said, for cast lead 147gr 9mm, I really like Green Dot.

 

[dwhite]

I use Clays for cast bullets in 38 Special and 40 S&W. I imagine it should work well in 9mm but you really need to watch for pressure signs especially at top-end loads. I haven't had any issues with it but I hear it spikes pressure real fast towards the upper end of its loading range.. I have experienced only minor leading with this powder in reasonable loads.

I also apply Lee Liquid Alox to all the cast bullets I shoot regardless of hardness. I can't prove it helps but it doesn't seem to hurt. It's easy enough to apply and is pretty easy to work with. It's cheap insurance.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[John Wayne]

I thought .355 sounded a bit small too (the last bullets I used for 9mm were .356 dia. 124 gr. LRN), but I figured a reputable manufacturer like Georgia Arms knew what they were doing. These bullets are 18 BHN.

So far looks like Green Dot is the only powder anyone is actually tried in 9mm. I might have to try that, I know my local shop carries it.

 

[fecmech]

What powders do you have on hand??

 

[John Wayne]

I only have HS-6 on hand right now. There is no data for HS-6 with a 147 gr. lead bullet, but I loaded up 5 rounds using the starting load for HS-6 with a 147 gr. XTP bullet. Recoil was very mild and the gun cycled fine, but there was noticable leading even after firing only a few rounds.

Honestly, I could probably get by with HS-6 so long as I cleaned the gun more frequently than I do now (ever 1,000 rounds or so), but I'm going to have to buy more powder soon anyway. I would really like to find something I can use reasonably well for 9mm, .38, and .357 lead loads.

I really like HS6 in .38/.357; I've found its performance to be quite good with both lead and jacketed bullets. Unfortunately, there is no HS6 lead load data for 9mm.

 

[LiveLife]

I am a fan of W231/HP38 and use it for all pistol calibers. 700X and Ramshot Zip are also similar burn rate powders as W231/HP38. I like the slower HS6/WSF, but use them for 45ACP mostly.

Actually, I am looking to test Green Dot next as it is also close to W231/HP38 in burn rate (a bit faster) and is usually available with a good price.

 

[bluetopper]

I've tried several powders for lead 147gr 9mm. Bullseye, American Select, Power Pistol, Universal, and maybe a couple of others I can't recall. These all work very well, I just think I get tighter groups @ 25yds. using around 3.4 to 3.6gr of Green Dot and I like the feel of the recoil.
I've also tried Clays with terrible results. It's too unforgiving in the 9, esp. with 147gr bullets. You either don't have enough to cycle the action or put a tad more and you have over pressure signs. It's a wonderful powder for low pressure calibers like 45acp and 38Spl, I don't even attempt it any more in low capacity, high pressure calibers.
I shoot a 9mm 1911.

 

[fecmech]

Hogdon lists 5.0 grs of HS6 for 885 fps@27900psi in the 9MM using the 147 gr XTP. HS6 and Winchester 540 are the same powder. In an old Winchester powder guide they list 4.5-5.0grs of 540 with a lead 147 gr bullet from 875-925 fps. I have loaded a lot of 5.0/540 behind a Kead 147 gr cast bullet with excellent results. Your HS 6 is really perfect for the 147 gr lead bullet but if you want to try another powder I would recommend Hogdon Longshot. It was the most accurate powder I used in 3 different 9's with both jacketed and cast bullets from 115-147 grs.

 

[LubeckTech]

Apparently you are serious about shooting in that you are reloading performance ammunition instead of buying Winchester White Box stuff. Have you considered "taking it to the next level" and casting?? There is a learning curve and some equipment to be bought but you can save money and make QUALITY bullets that won't lead your barrel. It is not hard to "slug" your barrel which you should do anyway so you will know what it's actual diameter is as this is the most crutial factor in leading. Then if you have the interest you could make bullets to the size, hardness and shape that work best for you plus you will learn things in the process. Before you dismiss the idea check out the videos on Youtube and some websites like http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/ and http://castboolits.gunloads.com/ to see if you may be interested. If you are shooting under sized bullets I don't know of any powder that will cure leading.

 

[Geezer59]

There is no data for HS-6 with a 147 gr. lead bullet, but I loaded up 5 rounds using the starting load for HS-6 with a 147 gr. XTP bullet. Recoil was very mild and the gun cycled fine, but there was noticable leading even after firing only a few rounds.

You might want to try a few with a heavier charge of HS-6, sometimes those slightly loose lead bullets need a little extra help "bumping up" to bore size - usually works better with faster burning rate powders though. Any hot powder gasses that get past the bullet base really aggravate leading with cast/swaged bullets.

They may not be the best, but I use 'em 'cause they're dirt cheap ($28 per 500), so I'm not looking to try any different bullets--I want to find a powder that works with these. Bullet style is LRNFP.

I've always had good results with Green Dot for this type of load, but lately I've been swayed over to Rex #2, which is available (if you hunt) in 2.2 lb. (1 kilo) cans and 25 lb. boxes. Buy in bulk, and it's under $10/lb. I've had good luck using Greed Dot starting loads for my initial trials, and have used Rex #2 successfully in 9mmP, .38 Spl., .44 Mag light loads, and .45acp. If you can find it locally, it should give you the lowest cost reloads while still delivering good performance.

 

[Mike 27]

I have used AA2 on 9mm and .38sp but haven't looked at it for .357 and it works very well. My .357 (firing 38sp) berry's 125gr SWC's with a 2.5 inch barrel is suprisingly accurate. My 9mm is ok but its more the gun than the ammo. I like the AA 2 much better for the 38, than the HS 6. I run bullseye in all of my guns and it does well.

 

[John Wayne]

Did some more research and found that Winchester 231, 540, and 571 will all work and be usable for .38, .357, and 9mm with the bullets I have. Only problem is no one around here sells it! I checked my local store and a gun show; one only carries Win 296 and the other doesn't sell Winchester powder at all.

HS6 and Winchester 540 are the same powder.

If Winchester 540 is the same as HS-6, why does the same manual list them seperately, and make no mention that they are interchangeable? (not saying you're wrong, just wondering)

The data is the same for Win 540 (147 lead) and HS6 (147 XTP); I might try pushing the bullets faster.

"taking it to the next level" and casting??

I have zero interest whatsoever in casting. I priced equipment and supplies, and found out that I really wouldn't save anything on the bullets I shoot. The cast bullets I use are cheap, readily available, pre-sized and pre-lubed, so it doesn't benefit me to make my own. Now if I were shooting some oddball caliber and had a lot of extra time to kill, it might be a different story, but for right now that's another initial expense and time consuming task I don't need.

 

[LubeckTech]

Casting is definately not for everyone and it only works for me because I shoot many different calibers and guns so I need the versatility it offers. Unfortunately if you are shooting a .355 dia bullet down a barrel whose true diameter is probably .356 or .357 you will have some degree of leading no matter what powder you use. You would most likley benefit from buying the best fitting bullets possible. Determining the true bore diameter is not difficult. The best way is to use a product available from Midway USA called Cerrosafe Chamber Casting Alloy to create an impression of the bore of your XD9 and measure it. This is easy, safe and will tell you the actual bore diameter which will differ from what it is suppoesd to be. Knowing that you can very likley find inexpensive bullets that won't lead your barrel. There are companies like Wolf Bullet (www.wolfbullets.com) that offer cast bullets at great prices and let you select the diameter. As for powders that are likley to produce the least leading; Unique (you can even get it at WalMart here in WV) 3.2-3.8 grains, Universal Clays (not to be confused with Clays) 3.0-3.3 grains and Blue Dot 5.1-5.9 grains. All these loads are listed in the Lyman manual for a 9mm 147gr bullet cast from #2 Alloy. These powders work well in .38 and .357 loads too and are generally easy to find. Even if you get some leading it is not the end of the world as it is of course cleanable. Brownells carries a tool called the Lewis Lead Remover which works really well.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

W540 and HS-6 are the same powder and so are W571 and HS-7.

W231 and HP-38 are also the same powders.

Don't take our word on it, write or call Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR and ask them yourself.

HS-6 will work very well in your 9mm with a 147gr Cast bullet. W231 will also work well with all 3 calibers you want to load. If you can find some WSF that will do the job too.