Best Reflex/Point Shooting Course/Instructors?

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Vodoun da Vinci

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I have been working hard on my skills and training on my own....reading lots and assimilating newer techniques and grips over the last year since my hiatus of shooting sports for almost 30 years ended last Spring 2013.

I'm a "point" shooting advocate and shoot reflexively and instinctively and have been training myself *not* to use my sights which I understand is highly subjective and, in some cases, frowned upon in higher training circles. I'm not opposed to bulls eye/target shooting sports but my focus is on defensive "move and shoot" techniques at close range.

I'm ready to get some formal training and I'd like to concentrate on Point/Reflex shooting and I'm wondering if some of THR's proponents of this technique can refer and recommend training schools and individual instructors of this type of shooting.

Thanks in advance!

VooDoo
 
Completely cool with me....I realize folks may have strong opinions both pro and con. I'm more interested in recommendations of instructors that specifically teach this style not a debate on the pros and cons.

VooDoo
 
What kind of instruction are you expecting to receive?

I, too, favor point shooting, especially for close range self defense (range out to about 15 yards). But point shooting is both instinctive and reflexive, and since I don't think either reflexes or instincts can be taught, I have never considered seeking instruction. I just practice using them.

I also shoot using my sights, and have taught others to do so, but I have never been able to figure out how to teach someone to use an instinct they don't have or found a need to teach an instinct they do have. That, perhaps, is why there are few schools teaching instinctive shooting.
 
VooDoo,

I see you're in Illinois. One of DR's instructors, Paul Sharp, is in Illinois. I've trained a bit with him and he's very good. I should note that Paul is probably not fairly described as a "point shooting" guy, but rather a "sight continuum" guy - - which seems to be true of a lot of high level trainers these days.

Here's a link to Paul's blog, with a short clip of his fist-fire instruction:

http://sharpdefense.me/2013/06/28/fist-fire-demo/
 
I'd agree with Bix, most quality instructors are going to teach a continuum of sighting that recognizes a need for fast unsighted fire close-in, carefully "dressed" sight picture at longer ranges, and just what you need to see to make the shot at distances in between.

So looking for someone to teach you, specifically, "point shooting" might be a tough bill to fill, as that's too limited a scope of skills for a defensive trainer to instill.

(Point shooting out at longer ranges IS doable, with a whole lot of dedicated practice, sort of like knife throwing, and like knife throwing becomes more of a parlor trick than a fighting skill.)
 
Thanks to both...I'm using "archaic" terminology and in shopping for instructors to help me along my chosen path I now realize that "point shooting" per se is highly frowned upon and the term is not used.

The "concept" has been assimilated and improved upon it seems which is exactly what I'm looking for. I self taught myself "point shooting" but what I'm doing is more like what Paul Sharp is advocating to some degree. I'll need to look very close at this guy and his concepts as I feel it is very close to what I'm looking to develop. I personally have arrived at a point where I cannot go further without someone giving me input and questioning me, my technique, and drilling/grilling me. I need more information than I am getting searching the 'Net and training on my own.

I'm interested in threat focused shooting within handgun combat distances and training to that mindset. Beyond 30' or so I'd use sights no matter what but have managed to hit stuff pretty well up to 25 yards by "looking" at it. I'm not opposed to sights I just function much better and faster at distance less than 30' without acquiring them nor making any attempt at acquiring even a flash sight picture. In my "zone" if the bullet does not go within 2" of where I'm looking then I'm not "looking" correctly or there is another problem and using sights does not help it. I strongly feel that intuitive/point/threat focused shooting is my forte' and want to train that way and find others with credibility/ability who have taken that further than I have so far.

Can anyone speak to the concepts of Roger Phillips? Trained with him or his students? http://www.fightfocusedconcepts.com/

Super thanks for the feedback!!

VooDoo
 
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I would think any trainer that understands how to teach someone how to develop and use a highly refined index would do. The amount of sights, if any is up to you.
 
Who's that guy that trains in a system he calls "Quick Kill"? He's a big point shooting guru. Just can't remember his name off the top of my head.:confused:
 
Better search terms: Fight Focused, Threat Focused, Sight Continuum, Point Shooting, Quick Kill, and Point Shooting.

Any School links I have found are already present in the posts above. Names to research and follow:D.R. Middlebrooks, Robin "Brownie" Brown, Roger Phillips, John Veit, Paul Sharp, and others.

In this weeks research I have learned that "point shooting" (the term) and searching only for that will not yield much current or progressive information. The concept is/has evolved and "point shooting" per se is not really a system so much as an individual technique and skill set...one of many to keep in ones Tool Box.

Which is how I'm currently using it. I'm still looking for input from folks who have trained with any of the above individuals or links to schools that teach these skills as part of their philosophy and curriculum.

VooDoo
 
other than a weekend long basic handgun defense course, I haven't taken additional courses yet but I have done some shopping since I'm definitely planning to take a similar style class. I can post what I've researched if the OP is interested.
 
Please post any good stuff you find - there seems to be quite a bit of interesting training out there but some of it is beyond me or requires pre requisites that will take me quite some time to get due to "unscheduled mandatory overtime and out of town/overnight travel" in my day job.

VooDoo
 
I noticed you mentioned Roger Phillips and while I haven't taken a class from him yet, I intend to. If you want to hear some of his philosophy, he'd been a guest on Bob Mayne's Handgun World Podcast. That was a time when Mr. Phillips was still teaching under the Suarez International banner.

I was impressed with how he conducted himself and how he conveyed his ideas during the podcast, and I think he was on more than one of Bob's shows. Hopefully that translates to him being an effective trainer.
 
From what I have read and researched, Roger Phillips is at the top of my list. I like his philosophy and mindset. I'd like to hear some comments from folks who have actually trained with Roger.

The only videos of his I can find are pretty much exactly how I already train at The Farm range I have set up. I'm a big believer in move and shoot and this guy really seems to have beat this concept seriously.

VooDoo
 
Vodoun da Vinci said:
From what I have read and researched, Roger Phillips is at the top of my list. I like his philosophy and mindset. I'd like to hear some comments from folks who have actually trained with Roger.

The only videos of his I can find are pretty much exactly how I already train at The Farm range I have set up. I'm a big believer in move and shoot and this guy really seems to have beat this concept seriously.

VooDoo
Click to expand...

I took a course with Roger Phillips. It was eye opening to say the least.

We were making shots that I always thought impossible.
 
The method described by Sam1911 is what most instructors are teaching now, and with good reason. It works. There is a place for "point shooting" and also a place for a very refined sight picture. Where instruction comes in handy is learning where and how to apply each. Coupled with the fact that handgunning is NOT an instinctive activity, this makes instruction a necessity to learning to do it well.

Instructors who claim that one method is "it" and all others useless is either an idiot or just not very well informed.
 
I am a believer in using sights. I'm also a believer in point shooting at close ranges. I thought I knew how to point shoot until Jim Cirillo taught me how to really point shoot. Unfortunately Jim died a few years ago in a car accident. He would have been my #1 recommendation as an instructor.

If you want to read a bit about point shooting (and shooting to stay alive) I suggest some of Jim ' s books.
 
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