FortuneCookie45LC did a runout test comparing the MEC v. Forster v. RCBS v. Lee. And the MEC won.
Best single stage press: MEC v. Forster?
- Thread starter jski
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,,, (insert any reloading device here)
At times, I think it would almost be a 'fantasy-come-true' to be able to try a bunch of different presses before buying. (Might just as easily create more questions than answers too!)
The Coax was on my short list back when I was looking for my 1st press / just getting started. Mostly due to the reviews, and not necessarily due to any one particular aspect or feature that I liked.
The MEC looks good, but spent primer disposal method isn't my fave. (non-issue if you deprime elsewhere)
Which one makes 'more consistent / accurate' ammo? Jeesh,,, So many other factors in accuracy besides the press itself,,, I reckon I'd first have to convince myself with some form of hard data that (both) my press's were sub-par, and that nothing else was,,,, and then convince myself that another press would absolutely 'fix' that particular problem,,,
Nah,,,
Too many 'ifs' and 'buts' involved,,,, I'd just buy something with the desired features / creature comforts I wanted.
jmorris
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The reason his numbers seemed low to him was how he was measuring. Using one that locates on the tip and back of the case like this, will give you smaller numbers.
As will using one like this and measuring closer to the case than tip.
But this style will let you measure from different locations on the case.
As well as the case alone before and after sizing (and firing). Important in and of itself as we have no idea what he was starting with other than “new”. Were they the same? Who knows.
Would have been interesting if he measured the ones that were seated in the multiple steps where the round is more than likely being clocked differently every time he pulls them for measurement vs just 3 right from the start or after he was finished adjusting the dies, that alone kind of makes that test less useful. Not only is the sample size very small it’s apples to oranges of how one is going to be loading, unless they partial seat and clock every round but then he would have needed to do that for each in the test as well.
It’s a shame Lee doesn’t make a “deluxe” version of the classics cast.
With a really nice handle, premium priming system, beef up the linkage so it looks more manly!
But really is a very nice press still but won’t get you any man points. I just hate that it looks cheap and the handle isn’t what it deserves.
With a really nice handle, premium priming system, beef up the linkage so it looks more manly!
But really is a very nice press still but won’t get you any man points. I just hate that it looks cheap and the handle isn’t what it deserves.
LUCKYDAWG13
Member
My first single stage press was a Lyman Comet my Dad bought it back in 196? I used it up until 2 years ago I found a CoAx on sale
I think i payed $150 for it all i can say is Wow I love this press
I think i payed $150 for it all i can say is Wow I love this press
Okay, I'll bite.
What does manly linkage look like?
Are you referring to the gold tone of the arms?
The linkage on the Classic Cast is as strong as that on the Rockchucker...it is already capable of being used to load .50BMG cartridges. There is even a hack to increase leverage to make it easier to swage bullets.
I have to admit that I've never used the handle that came from the factory. I purchased the InLine Fabrication Ergo Handle for it at the same time that I got the Ultramount and the Case Ejector system (MSRP $160)
I think the handle and linkage makes it look cheap. Yea the linkage may just need a powder coat or chrome job to fix that. I know it all functions superbly. I just think there’s a market for it if Lee spent some money on cosmetics that wouldn’t really attribute any to usefulness.
Best on press priming system as well as spent primer system. It’s one of the best presses made, but it’s far cheaper than anything in the same class. And carry’s a stigmatism of being “cheap Lee”.
As a “Lee guy” I was truly appalled the first time I went to a friends house and spent primers we’re just going everywhere and he had to touch every primer to prime, be it loading a tube or loading the punch. Trying to figure out why a kit that cost 2.5x what my Lee kit cost had these serious issues.
IMHO, Lee has a business model that's worked well and it includes providing reloading equipment that won't drain your wallet. I guess they could start adding stuff for 'show' and raise their prices, but that kind of goes against their own market strategy.
Steve in NC
Member
I've read through this whole thread. Something that I didn't see was in reference to the quality and runout of the bullets and cases being used as a test bed for "runout" testing of the loaded round to say which press is better than another. I competed in long range benchrest (600 and 1000yds) competitions around 2/3 of the US for over 15 yrs. There is a reason my old truck has 339K miles on it. All of my rounds were loaded using my old Lyman Orange Crusher press I bought in early '80s. All of my dies were custom made dies made with a match set of reamers that cut my chambers (Tooley Custom Rifles). With all of that said.... if you have brass that isn't concentric to begin with (and 99% of brass is like this) you WILL end up with banana shaped brass after firing and running it into a sizing die no matter how good the dies or the press is that you are using will always have that same banana shape to the brass. The brass with shorten on the thin side and be longer on the thick side. I've seen some domestic brass with 8 -10 thousands of runout in the wall of the brass right straight out of factory packaging. I have a set of Lapua 6.5x55 brass that avg .008" wall thickness variation right out of the box and that brass isn't cheap. But I have other Lapua and mostly RWS brass for both my light gun and heavy gun class chamberings that have .000 - .001" max runout.
Now when you take brass like that and size it and seat a good quality bullet (that has zero runout in ti also) and put it into a concentricty jig pictured above to where the 2 pivot points are on the brass case and you measure the runout of the free hanging bullet... now you are starting to get a true runout picture of the assembled cartridge. Anything less in using quality brass and bullets (without cannulars... think about how a cannular is made) and you are probably measuring how bad your brass is more than overall runout of the assembly. And consider the actual jig you are using also. Most of these jigs sold commerically are not setup to give you a true reading of what they are advertised to tell you.
Hope I didn't step on any toes. Just an area I have a lot of experience in. And when its all said and done my old Lyman OC did the job because of the quality brass and custom dies. A CO-Ax press can't produce better ammo than what I did with my setup. I do have a buddy who bought the RCBS Summit. Your arm will get tired operating it if loading in bulk and if you swage military primer pockets... the standard swaging tools do not work on the Summit or other presses to where the die is brought down over the case rather than the ram and case being pushed up into the die. Just an FYI.
Steve
Now when you take brass like that and size it and seat a good quality bullet (that has zero runout in ti also) and put it into a concentricty jig pictured above to where the 2 pivot points are on the brass case and you measure the runout of the free hanging bullet... now you are starting to get a true runout picture of the assembled cartridge. Anything less in using quality brass and bullets (without cannulars... think about how a cannular is made) and you are probably measuring how bad your brass is more than overall runout of the assembly. And consider the actual jig you are using also. Most of these jigs sold commerically are not setup to give you a true reading of what they are advertised to tell you.
Hope I didn't step on any toes. Just an area I have a lot of experience in. And when its all said and done my old Lyman OC did the job because of the quality brass and custom dies. A CO-Ax press can't produce better ammo than what I did with my setup. I do have a buddy who bought the RCBS Summit. Your arm will get tired operating it if loading in bulk and if you swage military primer pockets... the standard swaging tools do not work on the Summit or other presses to where the die is brought down over the case rather than the ram and case being pushed up into the die. Just an FYI.
Steve
Steve in NC
Member
In regard to Lee presses made out of aluminum casting.... put a dial indicator between the "O" frame sometime then full length size a decent size a peice of bottle neck rifle brass and see the stretch of the frame. Or while shoulder bumping to ease hard extraction problems... same thing. Those aluminum frames do stretch more. BUT.... that is the exception to the rule. 95% of reloading can be done on those frames just fine and the price is right on the Lee stuff and you produce good ammo. This is not to say the cast frame of other manuactures do NOT stretch either. They all stretch. It's just to what degree and what is acceptable to your situation.
Steve
Steve
Sure that wood thing is up to the task?
Steve in NC
Member
jmorris,
I stand corrected. I guess I didn't read this as well as I thought I did. You are correct. My apologies! I have many spreadsheets of data used to track my competition brass. All pieces of brass were marked with a ref number the day they were purchased brand new. All measurements were taken before firing, then the brass was processed for firing (turned necks, indexing marks, etc.) fire-formed and then loaded. And I used the number to record the number of firings. That number stayed with that piece of brass right up to the day i retired it.
Steve
jmorris
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I imagine it’s just on that saw horse for the photo.
Everything “moves” under load, I have done torsional load tests on racecars before and after modification numerous times myself.
It sounded like he did similar tests on presses and the numbers geek in me was curious about his results.
Not a problem Steve, I figured few would sit through the over 11 minute video, figured I would point out where his results could be difficult to duplicate.
Everything “moves” under load, I have done torsional load tests on racecars before and after modification numerous times myself.
It sounded like he did similar tests on presses and the numbers geek in me was curious about his results.
Not a problem Steve, I figured few would sit through the over 11 minute video, figured I would point out where his results could be difficult to duplicate.
jmorris
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Curiosity got the better of me and I had a few minutes, rigged up an indicator on a lee breechlock press. I put it on the machined surface of the press so I was only measuring what it was doing vs dies/bushing.
Looks like it moves about .001” with .223 brass and Dillon lube. Always the same case to case, might be why it doesn’t seem to matter.
So I ran some non lubed cases and as it required noticeably more force it went all the way up to .002” before I stuck one and decided to quit there.
Looks like it moves about .001” with .223 brass and Dillon lube. Always the same case to case, might be why it doesn’t seem to matter.
So I ran some non lubed cases and as it required noticeably more force it went all the way up to .002” before I stuck one and decided to quit there.
PWC
Member
I only have one press; 1947 Pacific Press, works fine, lasts a long time (32 yrs for me) rifle and pistol. I only shoot 100's of cartridges not b'zllions a year. Reloading is relaxing, not trying to get 500 for tomorrow to keep up with the guy / gal on the next table at the range.
Steve in NC
Member
Jmorris,
I see you did your own tests. I like your style! When we tested this many years ago we were testing it from a custom bullet forming perspective. So I can't give specific cases equaled X amounted of stretch or how different lubes or lack of lube changed the stretch.
But you did indicate a very important point... As long as that stretch is consistent does it really matter for 90% of reloading needs? I submit, not at all.
Steve
Mowgli Terry
Member
The only bullet swaging I ever did was making .224 jacketed bullets with some elderly SAS dies. I could have done this on a Lee Classic Turret press. I'd like to see some supporting data on the stretching of the Lee press. This would end any controversy.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
This is debating which truck is better? (Of course the F150 is). There are no winner among us. There are many to choose from. Green, Red, Orange, and Blue. I like Red.
Mowgli Terry
Member
Not doubting anybody. Done by another person would be supporting your findings. To be on task the measurements need to be replicated. If nobody comes along that it's a done deal.
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