Best SKS for build ??

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kymasabe

Member
Joined
May 28, 2006
Messages
833
Location
Northern by birth, Southern by choice.
Hey all, went to an Appleseed shoot this weekend and brought my AK's. Found out by the end of day one that the AK platform isn't an ideal choice for accuracy. So, I'm thinking of building an SKS for my next Appleseed shoot and for whatever else (range use, hog hunting, instruction...). I have a 1950 Russian SKS that has seen some use (and abuse, but not by me, only got it a week or two ago). But, I'm wondering if it's the best gun to build on or should I be using an unissued Yugo or a good condition Norinco instead.

The plans are:
Pull and save the wood stock and go with a polymer stock (ATI in Mothwing Camo, or maybe a Choate stock or Tapco T6) so I have a decent LOP, if not, at least add a 1" thick recoil pad/stock extension to the back of the wood.
Send the trigger group to Kivaari for a match trigger job.
Get a spring loaded firing pin setup from Murrays.
And install a Tech sight...and possibly a Williams FireSight in front.
Unless the gun is like-new, I'll also be throwing in new gas rod, operating rod and spring.

Can an SKS be rebarelled?

Anyway, those are the plans and I'm just looking for the best base to build this project on. I need to accurately be able to do Appleseed AQT targets. What say you?
 
Why, since you have proof of marksmanship activity, don't you get yourself a CMP Garand? You'd have true 30 caliber firepower, excellent sights, and the surplus ammo (price wise) is similar to what you'd be paying for 762x39.

The reason I say is because I'm going to the Hartford shoot, and I'm using an SKS for it. I was going to spiff up mine at first, but I came to the realization that:

1. The 762x39 is a <300 meter/yard cartridge. While in suburbia I don't see a whole lot of 500 yd shots, it's always better to have the extra punch.

2. Ammo availability. Right now, and this is in NH, the going rate per 1000rds is about $179-250. The CMP ammo comes in clips and bandoleers for $206 delivered for 768rds, or you can get it loose 960rds for $234 shipped. This is without the threat of an ammo import ban, which could really ruin someone's day.

3. If you use the Tapco T6 stock, which lots of folks on the sksboards web site really like, you've got to play the 922r game.

4. The TechSights are a great thing, though, I've got 'em on my 10/22. The Williams FireSight has no adjustability though. Larry does sell a target front post, which is really nice.

5. And there are no companies making barrels for the SKS.

I guess what I'm trying to say is go for the Garand. With the SKS all you really need is a set of TechSights (get the ts200's), the front sight post, the sight tool (trust me) and a 1" buttpad extender and that's all you'll really need for the SKS at 25 yds.

As far as the target holders, the for sale signs realtors put on houses are dandy target holders.

Hope this helps,
NHshooter
 
My SKS, with inexpensive 3 x 9 scope and mount, will hit the 300-yd 10-inch square steel target at my range with every shot (Wolf HP is the most accurate in mine). But, the SKS ejects fired cases vertically, so short scopes that don't project over the action are used. CDNN and Cheaper Than Dirt are sources...you can get both scope and mount for about $40.

If you want to mount a long scope...such as mine...you will need to install a case deflector and detachable magazine, as you can no longer use stripper clips to load the original magazine.
 
P.S. to the above post: My SKS is stock except for the mount, scope, case deflector, and detachable magazine. Sorry, I don't know the manufacturer as the scope mount covers it...I bought it as converted, except that I added the case deflector.
 
I have a 1950 Russian SKS that has seen some use (and abuse, but not by me, only got it a week or two ago). But, I'm wondering if it's the best gun to build on or should I be using an unissued Yugo or a good condition Norinco instead.
Click to expand...
Tough to say. SKS can vary widely in the accuracy dept.

I'd say an unissued Yugo 59/66 would probably have the best chance of good accuracy. Yugos seem to have a very high build quality. My unissued 59/66 is the most accurate of all my SKS.

As far as mods, the gas system stuff won't do anything for you unless it's not cycling. I'd keep the original stock and add a pad on the end for additional length only if necessary. The original stock will fit the rifle better, and will be heavier (to absorb recoil and help keep shots on target). The trigger work will be worthwhile as will the Tech Sights.

All that said, I highly recommend getting a rack grade CMP Garand and rebuilding it instead like NHshooter suggested. You'll end up with a much more useful rifle, that will be more accurate, have better sights, and have a much higher resale value.
 
NHshooter

Covered it perfectly!!!!!!! Good work Neighbor :)

At this point the econonmy of the 7.62x39mm is begining to wain.
In my area 500 rounds of 7.62x39mm wolf classic is going for the price of $100 and that is at the local army surplus store, and its $10-20 more at all the local gunshops.

The M1 is a good long range rifle, I have shot them at NRA highpower shoots and done well even at 600 and 1000 yards.

Though the the M1 doesn't really need much upgrading. The CMP rifles can be a little rough, but they are the best value going these days. You could rebarrel it at some point as the CMP guns have bores in Fair condition. Criterion makes very nice M1 barrels for a good price you can even get them chrome lined.

Surpringly one advantage to the M1 is the clip .The clip loading system is very fast once you are proficient with it. Much faster than an SKS stripper clip and way less bulk than any sized AK magazine. Also when they are empty they weigh almost nothing and can be left loaded indefinitly.

In fact I found out that 40 rounds of .30-06 M2 ball in 5-M1 Clips weighs less than 40 rounds of 7.62NATO in 2-M14 magazines.

So the M1 has alot going for it.

Infact I just bought a used Armscorp M14 (the son of the M1) and I paid $900 for it which is a good price. However it shoots 7.62NATO/.308 which is no longer easy to get as surplus and 20 round magazines for the rifle are $25.

So you can see how that stacks up economically agaisnt the M1 which most of the same fetures of the M14 and in some ways its better. I actually think I can shoot the M1 better than the M14 because the lack of protruding box magazine.

NHshooter did a good job talking about the SKS so I thought Id highlights the advantages of the M1.

Brother in Arms
 
Hey Brother in Arms,

Us Yankees are known for our thriftiness. So will we see a contingent of Mainers at the Hartford Appleseed? I know some people are trying to set one up in northern New England, according to the RWVA forum.

Keep that powder dry,
NHshooter
 
as far as accuracy, get a Yugo 59/66 then shut off the gas for accuracy, ya will turn it into a single shot with accuracy similar to a bolt action.

The AK can be an accurate rifle as well, but not if your useing the WASR/SAR go with a Yugo with the brand new Hammer forged barrel and the heavier 1.5mm thick reciever ya will be surprised, I build all my own AKs and learned a long time ago that the quality of construction has more to do with accuracy than anything, unless ya need compact stay away from the folding stocks for accuracy they don't allow a good cheek weld nor are they as stable as a fixed stock.

The primary limiting factor in 7.62x39 accuracy is the ammo used, the Wolf ammo being imported has .308 diameter bullets rather than the original military .312 diameter bullets if ya slug your AK barrel ya will find a groove diam. of .311" with cheap wolf ammo the bullet is basically rattlin down the tube, now if ya go with some old Chicom surplus steel core (its not armour piercing, the steel core was to save $ but a side benifit is that the bullet is more uniform and therefore more stable and accurate) ya will be surprised how much that AKs accuracy improves, My vz58s are tack drivers but they aren't really AKs either however if I run Wolf through em they go from 1.5" OFF A BAG REST to 3" groups off the same rest only change being the ammo now if I mix the mag with 10 rnds of handloads 10 rounds of wolf and 10 rnds of Norinco grn box steel core then lock the rifle down solid in the bags, use the 8x42 POSP scope ya will see something really starange, we load the mag with the ammo all mixed not stacked in any order etc... ALL of the handloads will hit the 10 ring and literally chew the center outa the target, all of the Norinco will end up grouped low by 2" and left 1" but will be within a 2" group the wolf will look like a shotgun pattern at best it will group 4" but seldom in a clean pattern, I've done this a few times to demonstrate the benifits of handloads in a 7.62x39 for people trying to figure out why their new Romanian sniper won't shoot worth cr@p, cause they are trying to shoot wolf and expecting the rifle to correct for junk ammo..........


My milled AKs and the ones I've built on 1.6 mm Global trades recievers also show much better accuracy than the standard 1 mm recievered AKs however even my Romanian "G" or "GP" kit builds on 1 mm Nodak spuds recievers will smoke a WASR/SAR ak with little effort, like they say ya get what ya pay for, ya use 4 MOA ammo ya are gonna at best get 4 MOA accuracy, ya use a $12 rifle (thats what Century pays for the incompleted rifle when its shipped from Romania prior to adding 922R compliance parts) your gonna get $12 rifle accuracy.............. Ya spend $800 (the cost of a completed VZ58 built on a milled OOW reciever) your gonna get $800 rifle accuracy.........

Ya spend $159 for an unissued Yugo 59/66 your gonna get $159 rifle accuracy IF ya use 4 MOA ammo thats what ya will get, the advantage of the 59/66 is that ya can turn it into a bolt action with the flip of a switch to elliminate the cycling of the action from interfering with your shot
 
IMHO, an SKS isn't a much better choice than an AK if accuracy is a large criterion for selecting the base for your custom rifle. The Simonov mechanism shares many of the same inherent factors which limit the potential of the Kalashnikov, and those can only be mitigated to an extent, not 'cured'.

During the firing cycle of either there are parts in-motion having significant mass and one or more points of contact with the barrel while the projectile is still in it. This will always affect the harmonics of the barrel's vibration in a more or less random fashion, which virtually precludes getting consistently precise accuracy.

The best illustration that I can refer you to is the top of the Krebs Custom AK line, where your c. $1000 gets you some very nice features, but with only about 3 MOA of guaranteed precision for a five-shot group. While some SKSes can match or even exceed that slightly, it's unlikely that the amount of improvement you can buy will be comparable to what a proportional amount of money would get from another platform.

The little Rugers in 5.56 NATO and 7.62x39 are often vilified for 'mediocre' accuracy here, even though they generally average at least as well, and often better than the average for either your stock-configuration AKM or SKS. Most Garands in good condition fed something other than surplus M2 ball will do that 3 MOA if the shooter's up to it. The amount of improvement from that standard some judicious modifications to either can get you will exceed the very best you could expect from an AK or SKS by a wide margin and be much more cost-effective as far as percentage of retained value on resale goes, IMO.

For the amount of precision accuracy per-buck you can buy in a military-style self-loader OTB, it'd be hard to match (much less beat) what's available in any of several makes of AR-15 variant out there. The same grand that'll buy you 3 MOA in an AK will get half that or better in one of these.
 
just re-read your post, rebarelling an SKS? With what?

Ya would end up with over a grand into what would still be an SKS, ya would be better served with an AR if your only punching paper with no need for a .30 cal bullet ie; terminal ballistics in the form of putting down a threat, if all your wanting to do is punch paper I wouldn't even bother with an AR just setup a Ruger 10/22

Don't go all benchrest stupid with it as then ya kill reliability, if ya want the "tacticool" look heres a neat way to get it,

Start with a blued (the stainless still only have an alluminum reciever and thats all your gonna keep here)used 10/22 next get a butler creek side folder stock, now get a bull barrel (ya are gonna want the extra weight for stability while on target) now get out your dremel and open up the barrel chanell of the stock to fit the bull barrel, DON'T free float the barrel as this only works well on a 10/22 if ya have the reciever threaded as well as the barrel) now that your barreled reciever is set, get a power custom trigger kit... assemble with recoil buffer pin and go play...

I have 3 I've done like this, with steel lip 30 rnd mags the kids just love em and MOA out to 100 yards from a rest isn't hard to do free hand ya'll find it to be very stable, unless ya get seriously ripped off ya will only have around $300 into the whole shootin match.

Do not go with a match chamber unless ya wanna clean after every 5 shots or so.
 
My SAR-1 shoots a 3 inch group at 100 yards. Using wolf ammo with no difficulty. Not exactly the best accuracy but not terrible either. But this group gets much larger as you get out ot to 200 and 300.

Brother in Arms
 
Regarding 10/22's, I already have one, carbine, scoped, it's staying as is, tacticool not needed.
Regarding AK's, already have the Armory USA SSR-85C2, chrome lined hammer foreged barrel, 1.6 mm receiver and all that. As good as it is, still isn't the most accurate AK, though is better than my Saiga with the 20" barrel.

Regarding the SKS, was basicaly trying to make a cheap-mans Garand, less weight, less recoil. If it's inherently an accurate platform, then all I need to do it tune it up a little. But, it sounds like from some of the responses that the SKS may be no more accurate than an AK. I was thinking that a longer barrel and much longer sight radius (with a Tech Sight) might improve MY accuracy (not necessarilly the guns).

I shot a Garand for the first time this weekend and not a big fan of the enbloc clips and Garand thumb. But, if it's the best gun for the job and money, maybe I'll have to go that route.
 
You are right in thinking the SKS is more accurate than the AK due to the longer barrel and greater distance between front and rear sights. I learned that by experience in Vietnam, where the SKS was occasionally fitted with a 3-power scope and used against us. Fitted with a cheap 3 x 9 scope, mine hits a ten-inch square steel target at 300 yards every time (Wolf HP ammo), and that's about the best one can expect.

You should realize that the 7.62 x 39 round was never designed or intended to be a long range cartridge. The AK-47 is strictly a short range high-volume of fire assault rifle. The issue ammunition accordingly has a fairly high natural dispersion among a group of shots. The rifles chambered for this round...both SKS and AK...were built more for durability and reliability rather than close tolerances, and they aren't capable of much improvement even with carefully handloaded ammunition. Frankly, it isn't worth it to spend much money on either rifle.

That recognized, the SKS is about the best bargain on the market for a semi-auto .30 rifle...both easy and fun to shoot, with plenty of inexpensive ammo around. Due to it's reasonable accuracy at 100-yds, light recoil, fairly short stock, and ease of operation it's great for introducing new shooters, including women and kids, to large-bore shooting. Although I have a large number of guns, my SKS is one of my favorite shooting guns. And, there are plenty of inexpensive add-ons available, including scopes and mounts for about $40. Due to the light recoil, cheap scopes hold up just fine...and there's no value in spending more on it.

Comparing the SKS to the AK (which I used fairly extensively in combat in Vietnam as Special Forces)...the AK is far more expensive and far less versatile. I bought a SKS for fun shooting...but I'll probably never own an AK again.
 
Kymasabe

I had the same idea at one time. I planned on taking a chinese SKS bed it in a fibre glass stock. Add the Tech sights, recoil pad, 20 round fixed magazine and flash hider, guess I was going for the poor mans M14.

But I never got around to doing it because I started shooting M1 and M1A and was really impressed by there accuracy.

That being said I dont think there is anything wrong with AK's or SKS's. Infact I own 2 SKS and 6 AK's. 2 in 7.62x39mm, 2 Saiga .308 , 1 Saiga 12 and 1 AK chambered for .223 I think people give them the short end of the stick when it comes to accuracy. I think as far as combat goes they are accurate enough.

As far as the M1 goes though, it is a great gun, just about as reliable as an AK and much more accurate, also very tough.

The clips do take some getting used to I disliked them at first also, but once I got used to them they are actually very good as I said before they are superior to magazines in some ways.

Nice thing about M1 thumb is you only get it once! I only did and it was left index finger. Its much easier to have one bight you when you are loading single rounds.

Brother in Arms
 
Had to show a fellow who had brought his newly purchased M1 Garand to the range for the first time how to load it...he was about to get the M1 Thumb! For you prospective M1 shooters, you shove the 8-round clip in with your thumb, and when it clicks home the bolt immediately slams forward, chambering the first cartridge...and your thumb!!:what:

To avoid it, lay your right hand along the right side of the rifle in front of the operating rod as you shove the clip home with your thumb. As the operating rod slams forward, it moves your hand and thumb out of the way.:D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

L
  • Locked
SKS Sidefolders?
Replies
11
Views
837
WhoKnowsWho
W
G
  • Locked
yugo sks
Replies
4
Views
541
Shadow 7D
S
Z
  • Locked
Help me build an SKS CT legal
Replies
1
Views
710
LKB3rd
L
M
  • Locked
Dr. Dremel attacks ugly SKS stock... PICS
Replies
3
Views
932
DrDremel
D
tnxdshooter
  • Locked
My sks sporter m
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
tnxdshooter
tnxdshooter
Back
Top