Best small frame auto

[Franco2shoot]

Calling for opinions, I know you'll get many differant answers, but here goes.
I want to purchase an auto that my wife can use when Dad and the boys go to the Range. Translation... the .44 mag, and 1911 in .45 have too much kick. I'm thinking .380 for caliber, and since her grip is smaller, something like a PPK. I don't want a Mouse gun, and I'm not fond of Glock, but the real kicker is I would like the new purchase to be able to use the Crimson Trace grips, which eliminates the PPK.

What's available to meet these parameters?

Thanks.

KKKKFL

 

[strat81]

Didn't the S&W Sigma come in .380 at one point? That might be an option.

Otherwise, have you considered a revolver? An SP101 with 3" barrel shooting mild .38s shouldn't be too rough on her. (My fiance hates revolvers, thinks they're ugly. She thinks my Glock is ugly too.)

 

[OH25shooter]

Did you do a search of crimson trace grips? See which makes/models they fit and start there.

 

[DogBonz]

PPK is a bad Idea

I thought along the same lines as you, until I actually fired one. It kicks harder than most 9mm’s. The reason is that it is a direct blow back design instead of a delayed blowback. That means that all of the energy is transmitted straight back to the shooter.

If you want to stay with a 380, check out the Beretta Cheetahs. I think that they are the model numbers 84 and 85. One has a tip-up barrel which means she would not have to rack the slide to chamber a round, which is a problem that some women can face with autos.

My other suggestion would be the Sig229. My girlfriend confiscated mind and has claimed it as her own. It is a medium frame with a 13 round mag, a nice trigger, good sights, and a machined stainless slide, so the weight helps with recoil, with out being too heavy. Plus, you can get the Crimson Trace grips for it.

 

[Franco2shoot]

Agree with Strat81 GF

I must say you have one saavy GF... She picked you, and shares my basic instincts WRT revolvers..

Actually, I have BP Revolvers, Remington, and Open Top, but they're my toys, and wife isn't comfortable with all that barrel. SP101 is not bad, but its another wheel gun.
I have the catalogue, but from the back page I cannot tell which of these models falls in the sub compact range. I can eliminate the 1911, but otherwise, here's the list:
Beratta 92/96 (I think these are big guys)
Beretta 92/96 VERTEC (don;t know)
Browning Hipower.. another big guy
Bunch of Glock models, but all listed as coming soon
Ruger Mk II and Mk III
Ruger P-85,89, 90, 91, 94 and 944
Sig Sauer p220
Sig Sauer P228/229
S&W large Frame
S&W 410,410s , 411 , 910, 910s, 915, 4003, 4003TSW , 4006, 4006STW, 4043
,4046, 5903, 5903TSW, 5943, 5946


Unless your a GURU of guns, all that goobledegook is gonna take a fortnite to unravel.

I just want a subcompact that is SA/DA and once she's racked a cartridge the trigger pull is fairly light.

thanks
KKKKFL

 

[Steve H]

I want to purchase an auto that my wife can use when Dad and the boys go to the Range.

Have you thought about a Colt Gov. Pocketlite or a Mustang? I think you would be out of luck as far as the CT grips go but at least the Colt Gov. is a "mid size" that may feel better is a hand the size of a woman.

 

[R127]

Well, the Crimson Trace requirement makes it tougher. If you can forego that I would reccomend either a Bersa or a Makarov. Both are good shooters, inexpensive and durable, sized to be concealable and controlable. I've handled the Bersa concealed carry model and it looks like a winner in its class to me.

 

[outofbattery]

Blowback .380's have more recoil than all but the lightest 9mm's.My SIG 230 has more snap than its 9mm 239 brother and quite a bit more than the 226.
I'd get a smaller framed 9mm like the Ladysmith/3913 or P239 and shoot lighter 9mm loads to start with.She'll be ready for +P's before you know it.

 

[whited]

.

Not that +p is for range use...

My suggestion would be to get a .22 autoloader, maybe a Browning or
Ruger. If its just a range gun, I honestly don't see much point in using a
larger caliber.

 

[strat81]

Of the ones on the CT website, I'd go with a Glock 19 or 26. The 26 is the subcompact, but it might be too small for her hand (floating pinky) or too big (thick grip). If the floating pinky bothers her, you can get grip extensions for less than $10. The 19 has a longer grip and barrel so the extra weight will cut some recoil.

CT also lists the compact CZ-75 PCR and P-01. These are very nice guns, inexpensive, but might be a bit heavy for her since they're all steel.

And yes, the Beretta 92 is a pretty big gun.

 

[Franco2shoot]

Sig Sauer

In looking at all the models, I kinda like the looks of the Sig Sauer 232, but CT doesn't work on it.. dang it... and it is a .380 too!

CT does say they make a grip for the P239 and again from pictures it looks like about the right size. On the Sig page they list .357 as an option, but I don't know if that's the .357 magnum, or not. Not that it would matter so long as I could put .38 specials through it.

CT says LG439 fits the P239 so now I need some feedback on this HG as far as reliability and NON-jam..

Thanks for the other recommendations.

KKKKFL

 

[DogBonz]

The 239 is a great small gun

I had one and sold it, but it was a 40S&W. I sold it becasue even though I really liked it and it was accurate and reliable, it hurt to shoot in 40. Call me wimp, but I have big mitts, and each shot felt like it was trying to seperate the fifth metacarpal from the rest of my hand.

About a year after I sold it, I shot one in 9mm and loved it. I should have just got a 9mm barrel and kept the gun. Oh well, live and learn. I would buy another in a heart beat. Great Gun.

 

[banddr2]

Sig 232 in .32 acp would make a great shooter, and soft on recoil. Not sure about Crimson, but that's a popular model so there is a good chance.

 

[banddr2]

Sig p232 in .32 acp would make a great shooter, and soft on recoil. Not sure about Crimson, but that's a popular model so there is a good chance.

There are some Japanese police contract p232's out there, they made more that the Japanese wanted. THese also have the safety added to the frame.

 

[shooter503]

I think you are saying that you want a pistol that your wife can use at the range to play with the boys. Do you want a SD use also?

If the point is just to make holes in paper you may be better of with the mouse-gun. 22 is half the price of 380 ammo. 380 ammo is more expensive than 9mm.

If you want a secondary SD use 380 is not a bad idea. However, the point of a 380 is usually to keep the firearm size as small as possible. As such the grips and butt are usually quite small and I do not know if this restricts the availability of the Crimson Trace grips (I have not checked).

The PPKs has quite awkward standard grips and it takes some practice to stop the little thing twisting in the hand during firing. The most practical pistol would be a Sig P232. The nicest handlng ladies gun would be a Beretta 70S if you can still get one but they are SA only which may be a problem for SD use. The recoil complaints about 380s are vastly over-rated.

The bigger Sigs are great pistols but I do not think they are going to be what you want for your wife according to your first post. The 239 is a double stack mag with the heavy slide. The 228 has a better weight distribution. A 225 is single stack and would fit a small hand better and they are available from AIM for about $350.

 

[strat81]

CT does say they make a grip for the P239 and again from pictures it looks like about the right size. On the Sig page they list .357 as an option, but I don't know if that's the .357 magnum, or not. Not that it would matter so long as I could put .38 specials through it.

.357SiG, not .357 Magnum. .357SiG weapons only fire .357SiG ammo, no .38 specials allowed. Think of a .357SiG as a 9mm on steroids. It's a small, bottle-necked pistol cartridge with pretty good ballistics, but it can be hard to find in stores and isn't cheap like 9mm.

 

[Mac Attack]

There really isn't much difference recoil wise between a .380 acp and 9mm. If you are set on a .380 I recommend a Colt Mustang Plus II or Government in .380 acp. Both offer a full sized grip and the Mustang has the softest recoil I have ever experienced out of any handgun in .380.

The recoil is not much less than a 9mm though and with the multitude of handguns available in 9mm I would recommend that you take a look at one before settling on a .380. A 9 mm is a good reason for the fact that they have more offerings in a full sized gun when compared to a .380 and 9mm ammo is cheaper than .380 ammo.

 

[Franco2shoot]

research

Many thanks to all those with tips and experiences.. I dropped by a local GS and we went through his entire lineup.. Couple things to add to initial request for tips.. Yes its basically to poke holes in paper, but once she's familiar with it I would like to think SD would be possible within her mind... My own experience is that one never knows how they are gonna react until they are put in a threatening position, and even then every situation is different. Point is, I wouldn't want her going to a .22 for defense, not enough Horsepower to stop a violent situation.

The CT aspect was just my concern that as a Non-shooter, it would be easier to teach put dot on place you wish to put hole, squeeeeeeze trigger...... In the store I came upon a second option and that is something that has utility rail, but is small ie. non double stack. After all in the house she's not gonna be into wearing leather... at least not that kind..(family aspect will keep thread from detouring too far) It would most likely reside in a nightstand when I am out of town on a business trip.

One thing I did note, Sig's were expensive, Bresa, and Kahr at the other end of the price spectrum, I'ld like to wind up some where in the middle.. at least for the firearm, the laser dot can alway be a down the road addition.

As to the laser, is there a manufacturer that makes one which will clamp to the front of the trigger?

KKKKFL

 

[dbarale]

I don't like polymer pistols but:
a used Glock or XD in 9mm fits the bill here. They are both quality guns, 9mm ammo is cheap and they do not kick much (less than a small .380), point and shoot guns (no safety), lasers are available (Lasermax guide rod or rail mounted) and prices are somewhat reasonable (350-450$). Both are perfectly adequate for home duty and can be found in a smaller version if she decides she wants to carry one.

 

[Jkwas]

My wife tried quite a few and her favorite turned out to be the Taurus MILPRO pt111. light trigger, easy to rack slide, good accuracy, and very light recoil. It's also a good size for her hands. I agree about the 380's, those fixed barrel guns are pretty snappy, and they bite!

 

[Franco2shoot]

How bout .32

Do youse guys think dropping back to a .32acp in something like a Walters PPK is gonna lighten the recoil enough yet keep the close in stopping power? It has to be better than a .22 or .25 I would think.


I'ld still need to find a clip on the trigger type laser if possible, but I do have a VERY good price on a used PPK.. so good I would forget the laser requirement.

KKKKFL

 

[Rotorflyr]

There are a number of companies that make laser's that attach to the trigger guard, however the problem with those is they eaisly can be knocked out of alignment and become worthless. One that attaches to a rail would be a better option.

If you really think she may need the gun for selfdefense, I'd say go with at least a .380 (but that just my opinion), and better would be a .38
I also think if she is only going to be an "occasional" shooter, she'd be better off with a DA revolver (which would still give her the option to shoot SA)

Your best bet is to take her to a shop with you and let her see what feels good in her hand, don't worry so much about caliber, as felt recoil is subjective and just because she is a women (even if small of stature) doesn't mean she couldn't handle a .45, .357 or even a .500mag
I personaly would try to steer her away from really "small/light/cute" guns though as they are harder to shoot then the larger/heavier guns (given the same caliber).

 

[Redlg155]

I'm going through the gun selection with my wife at this point as well. What I did find is that if she can shoot a small frame .380 well, then she can shoot a 9mm or better just as good.

My wife hates the Kel Tec P3AT .380 because she says it "kicks" too much, but has no problem with my Sig P226 .40 with full power loads.

It looks like we will settle on something a small to midsize for a purse/car gun.

 

[prescobd]

Beretta Tomcat

I see that CT is now making a laser grip for the Beretta Tomcat. Should meet most of your critera, except perhaps being a Mouse Gun depending on your definition of "Mouse Gun." A Tomcat in .32ACP is nearly as effective as a .380ACP and gives you the option of a CT grip.

 

[FLA2760]

Re small semi-auto

Hi
Have you considered a Bersa Thunder in .380?