Best source of charcoal to make black powder

[Ugly Sauce]

I’ve never tried to make charcoal before but have been considering the idea. How many pounds of wood would one have to char up to get 8lbs of finished charcoal? I am betting several times that?

Or maybe a better question… assuming one-man “artisanal” making, like a smallish retort over a campfire, what kind of practical quantity results? A pound of charcoal will make several pounds of black powder, so one doesn’t need a huge amount. On the other hand it would be nice to make a couple pounds at a time rather than a couple of ounces….

Okay, just guessing here, but I do believe it's a good idea to make small batches of BP for safety reasons, so one wouldn't have to make a large batch of charcoal. I've been watching Ben Hoffman's/Hoffman Reproductions tutorial on making black powder and he only uses a kinda-sort-of small can to make batches of charcoal. 2-4 gallon can...something like that? Looks to me like the one small batch he makes is more than enough for a couple of pounds of BP at least. I don't think if would be hard to make a couple of pounds or more, would depend on the size of the container you are cooking it in.

Boy, how many pounds of wood to make how many pounds of charcoal...I'd be interested in the answer to that. Maybe twice or 2X? Totally wild guess!

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I've yet to make BP or understand any of the intricacies of what makes the ideal BP charcoal.
However, I do "make" charcoal by shoveling out the ash & coals out of my wood stove every morning in the winter and letting them cool in a sealed steel bucket.
Then I sift the mixture through some 1/2 x 1/2 hardware cloth to separate the ash from charcoal.
The ash goes on my apple orchard and the charcoal mostly gets used to fire my smoker or grill meat proper.
In the past I've compressed briquettes but I find the loose charcoal bits and pieces work well enough for the smoker and grill.

 

[noelf2]

However, I do "make" charcoal by shoveling out the ash & coals out of my wood stove every morning in the winter and letting them cool in a sealed steel bucket.
Then I sift the mixture through some 1/2 x 1/2 hardware cloth to separate the ash from charcoal.
The ash goes on my apple orchard and the charcoal mostly gets used to fire my smoker or grill meat proper.

I do the same. But I use the coals to start the next fire. Best kindling ever!

 

[CorsiarRiley]

I believe cedar will work very well, and that is very easy to find. It sure is not hard to make charcoal. Since for safety reasons (for us "hobby" guys) black powder is only made in small batches, it would not hurt to try it, and then find some willow later. You can even find cedar in any "Home Improvement Center" which sells lumber.

I find it kind of puzzling to pay $45 bucks for eight pounds of charcoal, when it is so easy to make. ??

I've heard that grape vine is as good or equal to willow. Anyone who lived near a grape orchard or wine maker/grape grower could certainly get a lifetime free supply of that.

I went to home depot and got some ceder fence boards, will see how well that works. As for making charcoal out of willow just got 5 cutting of weaping willow from Amazon and will see what I can get from them over the next decade hahaha.

 

[mmb617]

I’ve never tried to make charcoal before but have been considering the idea. How many pounds of wood would one have to char up to get 8lbs of finished charcoal? I am betting several times that?

Or maybe a better question… assuming one-man “artisanal” making, like a smallish retort over a campfire, what kind of practical quantity results? A pound of charcoal will make several pounds of black powder, so one doesn’t need a huge amount. On the other hand it would be nice to make a couple pounds at a time rather than a couple of ounces….

I've never done a before and after weight to compare wood to charcoal, but that's something I'll do next time I cook a batch just for general information. If I remember, and that's a big if!

What I can tell you is I make mine in a one gallon paint can stuffed as full as I can get it with wood which cooks down a good bit but still gives enough charcoal for a couple batches of powder. That's with my batches each having 30 grams of charcoal in them. That gives me a batch of powder that weighs 200 grams or almost a half pound.

I went to home depot and got some ceder fence boards, will see how well that works. As for making charcoal out of willow just got 5 cutting of weaping willow from Amazon and will see what I can get from them over the next decade hahaha.

I've been using the cedar fence pickets from Home Depot with good results. My neighbor who is also a black powder shooter just gave me some willow charcoal chunks he said he's had for 30 years. He once intended to make his own powder but never actually did it. I'm going to make a batch of powder using that for comparison purposes. Some of the stuff he gave me is really hard, probably because it's so old. I'm running some of it through my ball mill and any that doesn't reduce sufficiently will probably have to be screened out. With the cedar there's usually no pieces that don't get reduced to fine powder in the ball mill.

This is a fun project that ended up costing more upfront than I originally estimated but isn't that how all projects go?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Maybe re-cook the will charcoal a bit? Considering that they often find, and date ancient camp sites and villages with charcoal, it should last just about forever.

In most places one lives, there must be some willow growing locally. Perhaps "volunteer" to clean up around someone's big willow tree? It's not super common around where I live, but just thinking about it I can think of several big trees here and there. One that is supposed to have been alive when the Battle of Four Lakes was fought. (Near Cheney Washington, 1858) That one is indeed old and huge.

Maybe a tree-trimming service/company/outfit would know of some, and maybe even occasionally take one down or remove a dead tree. ?

We also have some willow around here that is kind of a big bushy thing, but not a tree. I wonder if that works as well? I have that on my property. Perhaps only willow by name. It's a very hard wood, I use it for hawk and pokamagron (or however you spell it) handles, fire bows, etc.

 

[Officers'Wife]

OK, from academic standpoint BP charcoal needs to be of a very large pore size and have few oils & hydrocarbons. The former helps incorporation of the niter and sulfur. I use mostly willow but then I have swampland nearby that makes for a supply that is easily harvested. I have also used apple, poplar, cottonwood and in a moment of madness - hedgeapple. If the coking furnace is hot enough cottonwood and poplar produces a good powder but tends to need more pressure in corning process. (pucking) The apple is better used for roman candles and small rockets.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

OK, from academic standpoint BP charcoal needs to be of a very large pore size and have few oils & hydrocarbons. The former helps incorporation of the niter and sulfur. I use mostly willow but then I have swampland nearby that makes for a supply that is easily harvested. I have also used apple, poplar, cottonwood and in a moment of madness - hedgeapple. If the coking furnace is hot enough cottonwood and poplar produces a good powder but tends to need more pressure in corning process. (pucking) The apple is better used for roman candles and small rockets.

Do you know what species of willow you are using? I just found that there is about a bazillion types species. That really opens a can of worms...which species of willow is best? !!! Maybe I'll try my first attempt at BP with the willow bush I have out back. My impression is that it's very hard and dense, but perhaps a re-examination is in order. !

 

[Officers'Wife]

Do you know what species of willow you are using? I just found that there is about a bazillion types species. That really opens a can of worms...which species of willow is best? !!! Maybe I'll try my first attempt at BP with the willow bush I have out back. My impression is that it's very hard and dense, but perhaps a re-examination is in order. !

Black willow no more than 2 years old. Keep in mind that I am "carrying on" from a guy that started doing this sort of thing in the 1950's or 60's. I personally have done very little experimentation but follow the "steps" he laid out after many years. Even the coking furnace is something he had designed just improved with modern materials.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Black Willow...sounds...spooky! I hope Marie LeVoue doesn't live in that swamp. Well, I see I need to go on a willow research quest. The stuff I have out back gets pretty big, then dies off, and then a new one comes up where the other one died. The last ones that died I threw most of in the camp-fire, but I just took a tour and see there is quite a bit I can still pick up and try. But again, have no idea right now what species it is. Lots of new ones coming up for future use, if it makes good powder.

I also found that there are many "Tree People" outfits in my area. I'm sure one of them either knows of some willow to be found, or perhaps even has some laying around themselves from recent tree removal or trimming. ! Okay, good luck to all of us.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I hope somebody buys the Goex Plant now that it's closed.

Revolutionary War newspapers used to print instructions on how to make holy black. The trouble was the product was never consistent in power and the Continental Army's demand for it was not satisfied until the French became allies. Viva le Roi! (Louie, not George).

 

[Officers'Wife]

I’ve never tried to make charcoal before but have been considering the idea. How many pounds of wood would one have to char up to get 8lbs of finished charcoal? I am betting several times that?

Or maybe a better question… assuming one-man “artisanal” making, like a smallish retort over a campfire, what kind of practical quantity results? A pound of charcoal will make several pounds of black powder, so one doesn’t need a huge amount. On the other hand it would be nice to make a couple pounds at a time rather than a couple of ounces….

Depending on the species... My willow, after a 4 month "dry down" tends to yield 40% per unit weight of raw wood. Keep in mind this is with a generator not a "recovery still" or retort. I have never experimented with the differences but my uncle always claimed that charcoal from a by-product setup made inferior powder due to the larger percentages of creosote and other wood tars that would "burn off" in a coking still.

 

[ThomasT]

If you can find his contact info the person known as "Fly" who makes the die for making BP compressed pucks also sells charcoal. Or at least he used to sell it. I think you can find his info on the CastBoolits forum.

 

[noelf2]

If you can find his contact info the person known as "Fly" who makes the die for making BP compressed pucks also sells charcoal. Or at least he used to sell it. I think you can find his info on the CastBoolits forum.

Apparently he is a crotchety old man and doesn't answer emails or phone calls anymore.

I just split up a bunch of old white pine logs to cook some red cedar into charcoal. I'm going to try a batch and make bp to see how fast it is. Going to try cottonwood and grapevine as well. I also want to experiment with autumn olive. It grows crazy fast here in the blue ridge mtns, and is soft wood. I notice that beavers eat it so it might be good for bp, since willow and cottonwood are good and beaver eat the heck out of those also. Time to get busy on this. Been meaning to for a while.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

So what is the "pucks" all about? How/why does that work?

I went out and gathered all my dead willow-bush, got a fair amount. But also noticed quite a few young bushes sprouting up. It was very wet, so I have it in a dry place. (outside but on a pallet and covered) I think I'll try some cedar first, just to get through the learning process. I have some really nice old dry cedar that I just brought back from my last elk hunt for kindling. I think I'll use that to make charcoal for my first try at making BP. It's really nice stuff.

But anyhow...the pucks...what is the pucks?

 

[Big Bore 44]

Pucks are highly compressed powder, done after milling and before granulation.

 

[hawg]

If you can find his contact info the person known as "Fly" who makes the die for making BP compressed pucks also sells charcoal. Or at least he used to sell it. I think you can find his info on the CastBoolits forum.

Fly got bent out of shape over something, I dunno what. I think he pretty much shut off contact with everybody.

So what is the "pucks" all about? How/why does that work?
But anyhow...the pucks...what is the pucks?

You will need puck dies and a press. You can make a press out of channel iron, threaded rod and about an 8 ton bottle jack. You compress the powder and then crush it and screen it. https://www.brianredmond.net/dwilliams/blackpowder/blackpowder.html

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

So what is the "pucks" all about? How/why does that work?

I went out and gathered all my dead willow-bush, got a fair amount....

I've no actual experience making BP, but if your willow bush is what I think it is, it's about 1" diameter at it's thickest. If so I'd think you would want to remove the bark first since being a small diameter your going yo have a lot of bark in there otherwise. I've heard that debarking is one of the reasons Swiss is so good.

 

[AR. Hillbilly]

I’m a carpenter and throw away lots of snapper pieces of western cedar. how successful are folks at using western cedar?
Also my property is covered with red cedar. I live on cedar creek and it earned that name honestly.

 

[noelf2]

I’m a carpenter and throw away lots of snapper pieces of western cedar. how successful are folks at using western cedar?
Also my property is covered with red cedar. I live on cedar creek and it earned that name honestly.

I know that "eastern" red cedar was used during the colonial war. With other cedars, YMMV.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I know that "eastern" red cedar was used during the colonial war. With other cedars, YMMV.

Yeah, this is getting complicated! The cedar I brought home I assume is "Western" cedar, as I am in Washington State. ?!? It's really nice and dry, not sappy at all, it's the kind that you just look at and it splits it's self. Well, almost. Splits into long pieces and goes "tink" when you split it. "Seems" like it would be ideal but for sure, my results may vary. But again, I think that for my first attempt it should be good. Again, it's very dry and light wood.

Years ago everyone was replacing their cedar shake roofs for tar paper shingles or metal...that would have been a good time to get a bunch of free cedar. !!! I doubt that there are any houses around now, here, that still have cedar roofs. For some reason people just didn't like their roofs catching on fire easily. ?

Having said all that, I'm fairly confident that I can find some good willow just by asking around and contacting tree-trimmer and tree removal places. I think there is a "fair" amount of willow in the area, especially around the lakes.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've no actual experience making BP, but if your willow bush is what I think it is, it's about 1" diameter at it's thickest. If so I'd think you would want to remove the bark first since being a small diameter your going yo have a lot of bark in there otherwise. I've heard that debarking is one of the reasons Swiss is so good.

Sounds like it. Some is a bit bigger than 1", but that sounds about right. The stuff I gathered up is old enough to have de-barked it's self, but thanks for the tip. I'll make sure there's no remaining bark on any I cut up and bake/char. I'll be out on some nearby state-land soon looking for elk, I'll surely be looking for them there willow bushes too. I just wonder if it's a "true" willow, and if all species of willow is about the same, as far as making BP is concerned. There is supposed to be about 400 species of willow. We've always called it willow, but I guess my next step is to positively I.D. it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Fly got bent out of shape over something, I dunno what. I think he pretty much shut off contact with everybody.



You will need puck dies and a press. You can make a press out of channel iron, threaded rod and about an 8 ton bottle jack. You compress the powder and then crush it and screen it. https://www.brianredmond.net/dwilliams/blackpowder/blackpowder.html

Okay, I think I get it. The most logical reason I see is the claim that pucking saturates the charcoal "more-better" with the sulfer than just mixing. (not how you spell sulfer?) I guess that makes the BP a bit more "energetic".

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Oh..."sulfur". !!!!

 

[Officers'Wife]

Yeah, this is getting complicated! The cedar I brought home I assume is "Western" cedar, as I am in Washington State. ?!? It's really nice and dry, not sappy at all, it's the kind that you just look at and it splits it's self. Well, almost. Splits into long pieces and goes "tink" when you split it. "Seems" like it would be ideal but for sure, my results may vary. But again, I think that for my first attempt it should be good. Again, it's very dry and light wood.

Years ago everyone was replacing their cedar shake roofs for tar paper shingles or metal...that would have been a good time to get a bunch of free cedar. !!! I doubt that there are any houses around now, here, that still have cedar roofs. For some reason people just didn't like their roofs catching on fire easily. ?

Having said all that, I'm fairly confident that I can find some good willow just by asking around and contacting tree-trimmer and tree removal places. I think there is a "fair" amount of willow in the area, especially around the lakes.

Sorry if I made it complicated, bottom line is that I have the best product with black willow prepared in a coking "still." Please note that the coker is essentially a metal drum with holes drilled around the diameter and height. The drum is filled with the charge then set on fire at the bottom. When the bottom holes start to "glow" those holes are plugged to cut off the oxygen. then when the next row of holes "glows" they are plugged as well. Yield is about 40% by weight with willow I have available. Please note using this process the bark is pretty well burned to ash making debarking a moot point.