best suggestion for bear defence pistol/cal

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rozziboy18

rozziboy18

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hey guys,
a resent run in with the toothy kind had me doubting my kimber 45. i do a lot of black bear hunts and have ben lucky not to get ate in the last few years. im kinda green to the new age wheel gun cartriges and im looking to do a little shoping.

here is my criteria:

got to be a handgun, i have to climb a mountain with it with gear on my back

big enough to stop a 0-650 pound black bear:what:

double action

accurate enough to hit out to 50 yards at a max!

i need to be able to find the ammo for it!

needs to be under 750.00 i wish i could give up more but im married now:uhoh:



im ok with recoil. as i will probly only use it to fend of toothy critters:evil:
 
Well since it will be for defensive shooting and not hunting length ranges I would go with any .44mag loaded up with JSP's, NOT HOLLOW POINTS, With a 4 to a 6 inch barrel. Many brands out there and since you want double action the S&W 629 is a pretty good choice for the job. Your .45 would actually do the job with the proper loads and a well placed shot but you are correct in the assumption that a .357mag or better would be more suited to the task. I myself carry a .500 S&W in 4 inch for bear defense when I am in Grizz country. Little much for the black bear though. Damn thing kicks like an angry mule on steroids even with the muzzle brake/compensator on it.
 
HOO made a good suggestion as well with the Red Hawk. I have a .44mag in Super Red Hawk but it is single action and has the long barrel for hunting. The .454 casull round is a very good bear dropper but it also has a pretty good buck to it as well in the shorter barreled weapons. When using for defense you need to take into account that you will more than likely be firing under extreme stress so the odds of a followup shot are dramatically increased. Not very many can make a perfect head shot while trying to get away from a charging bear.
 
thanks freedom fighter,

on the boat so far

454 c

44m

any others? im leaning towards the 44mag. im figuring that if im going to have to shoot it, might as well leave some meat behind for tasty viddals!
 
Have you given any though to one of these? http://marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894centerfire/1894SS.asp

I know it isn't a revolver but it is not overly heavy or bulky and you could keep the weight down with a good set of peep sights. When the adrenaline gets to pumping like you portryed in you story earlier, the carbine will be more accurate and you have the luxury of more rounds on board. I like to refer to mine as my mini guide gun:D

P.S. it seemed to do the job on quite well on the 400 pounder in post #2
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,80093.0.html
 
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My suggestions in no particular order.
Taurus tracker in .44 mag. , it's small, light, not expensive, 5 shot. plenty of gun for what you're doing.
A .357 mag. revolver, pick your flavor, Smith,Taurus, Ruger
A Glock in 10mm, Again plenty of gun, plenty of shots, plenty reliable.
Befor you buy into the hand cannons ie. 454 casull, 500 S&W I would hope that you shoot one first.
And use heavy hard cast bullets with whatever you pick.
 
1. I would be much more worried whilst walking around in the woods with finding a clandestine marijuana grower that wanted to kill me than a black bear wanting to kill me.

2. Before you decide you really need a double action revolver, just try shooting one sometime chambered for the round of your choice in double action mode and I think you'll find your accuracy fairly pathetic. Even with a double action revolver you'll probably shoot much more accurately single action.

3. A 44 Magnum would probably be enough but for rapidly stopping something trying to get you, bigger would be better. Something like a 454 Casul, a 460 S&W or a 500 S&W comes to mind. What ever you get, if at all possible go to a range and try before you buy. I would also avoid such bear stoppers such as the 500 S&W Magnums with the 2 inch barrels as I doubt very much you would be happy shooting it unless you are a very seasoned magnum handgun shooter. Getting something you can shoot without being scared of it is more important than getting the biggest gun money can buy.
 
I would also avoid such bear stoppers such as the 500 S&W Magnums with the 2 inch barrels as I doubt very much you would be happy shooting it unless you are a very seasoned magnum handgun shooter
Click to expand...

Being an owner of a 4inch .500S&W I can attest to this fact as well. Unless you are REALLY experienced with heavy recoil handguns I would avoid the .500 S&W. Mine kicks like an angry mule on steroids and is by far not a pleasure to shoot. Now my 8.53 inch .500 S&W is a whole different animal. Darn near pleasurable to shoot at the range and I am extremely accurate with it. But I would not suggest it for a defense pistol simply because of the long barrel. It is heavy, cumbersome, and would draw like crap but it does point very well and is VERY accurate. You need to go shoot a few various designs and find one that you can A-Fire accurately, B-Draw quickly and bring to target quickly, C-Be able to follow up with a shot both quickly and accurately.

As far as the double verses single action. He is correct to a point. I am MUCH more accurate with single action as is pretty much anyone with magnum calibre pistols. That is a LOT of wheel to turn on them buggers and the double action pull is quite stiff and LONG on most all of them over .357mag. But I practice a lot with mine getting the hammer back on draw in a defensive situation and am pretty adept at it. But I am also a pretty sizable guy with very big hands so it is a bit easier for me than most. You need to get what fits both your needs and you.
 
Hmmm... I like the idea of the 10mm for bear defense. Ive wanted one for a while but could think of no real use for it. Now that it would have a use though... :evil:


b
 
I just got a Super Redhawk in 480 with rings and a buckmaster scope for $500 bucks.. I'm pushing a 400gr XTP mag at 1100 with slightly under a max load... pretty cheap and a whole lotta gun..
 
I second the Taurus tracker in .44, 4" barrel. Was <$500 and am more accurate with it than I was my older revolver. Who cares if it's a Taurus, as a holster queen defense gun it probly won't take that much of a beating rounds-wise. Light on the hip at 35 oz, for the long days of many miles...
 
When roaming the woods where black bear live I carry my Glock 20 in 10mm with Doubletap 200gr hardcast bullets at 1300 fps.

I've got the equivalent of hot 357 mag loads in a 16 shot gun that is lighter, easier to carry and more accurate in rapid fire than a revolver.

I've only been in areas where grizzlies lived a few times. Carried a 3" Smith 44 mag there but I'm not sure it is really a better choice than the Glock.
 
357 magnum or Glock 17L

Well, I'd start by saying I don't think there are a whole lot of aggressive black bears plus they are mostly nocturnal but I totally understand your worry as such I've packed a Glock 17L (call me crazy) for similar types of protection in the North woods.

My personal preference would be with the 357magnum at most but really favor the Glock17L. I had a 44mag (Ruger Super Redhawk) and I'll just admit it was a bit too much gun for my liking. It didn't win my favor although it did awe me a bit. Every time I shot it was like a bolt of lightening coming out of my hand. After like 50 rnds it starts to hurt your arm (no I'm not going to act macho about it). So I down-loaded to 44 special rounds cause those were a lot easier to shoot. I didn't care for them at all plus they were hard to find at local stores let alone one with a copper jacket. Yeah the 44mag will do it with more power than a 357 but really it's all in the shot placement. I'd try each first and see what you like shooting more. With a 357 mag it should be lighter and easier to carry and the follow up shot should be a bit better. Anyone can blast a 44mag a bunch of times but try hitting more than one target in a couple of seconds.

Also, practicality and consistency are virtue. I've carried a Glock 17L with expanding type rounds. Not cause I thought it was the best choice but because I know I can nail bulls-eyes real quick with it. Plus if worst case I can just unload most of the rounds in a couple seconds into anything close (i.e. a bear). The 17 Long slide is super accurate and just about the same price as a regular Glock 17. Every time I go to the range I get someone who wonders what type of gun I'm shooting cause they watch me group a pistol in a couple inches at like 25 yds with minimal practice (i.e. once every couple of months).

I think of it this way. Who's going to be more deadly/safe? The guy who shoots over a thousand rounds of 9mm and gets really good at shooting his gun fast and placing shots right where they wants it? or the person who shoots a couple hundred cause it's expensive and has heavy recoil as well as has a gun that is pushing almost 3 times the weight. Trust me, you'll get sick of carrying it, you can almost put the Glock in your pocket if you weren't afraid of snagging the trigger on a draw = more likely to have it on you when you need it. Also I think I read an article of someone who killed a Kodiak with a Glock17 while they were fishing but that could be a rumor it was a while ago. I believe they unloaded the gun though. If you get an adrenaline rush I think it's better to have many shots. If you get flustered wait till it's close and let them all rip. Some of the reasons the military uses a .223 instead of a .308, the reality is most people aren't super proficient with heavy recoil (despite the rhetoric), higher capacity, ease of carry, ease of use, expense, more shots faster = more success. Even better might be a Glock in .40 cal.

That and the double action on the Redhawk sucked as most revolvers do. The single action hammer cock back was great but..... that adds even more time to shooting it and if you miss the first shot, again, good luck lining up a second shot before the toothy critter gets to you! Then too, ever watch the TV with the guy who shoots the Polar Bear with a 300 win Mag and can't kill it, over penetration I'd suspect? I'll never forget that :)

glock.jpg
 
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Grumulkin said:
1. I would be much more worried whilst walking around in the woods with finding a clandestine marijuana grower that wanted to kill me than a black bear wanting to kill me.

2. Before you decide you really need a double action revolver, just try shooting one sometime chambered for the round of your choice in double action mode and I think you'll find your accuracy fairly pathetic. Even with a double action revolver you'll probably shoot much more accurately single action.

3. A 44 Magnum would probably be enough but for rapidly stopping something trying to get you, bigger would be better. Something like a 454 Casul, a 460 S&W or a 500 S&W comes to mind. What ever you get, if at all possible go to a range and try before you buy. I would also avoid such bear stoppers such as the 500 S&W Magnums with the 2 inch barrels as I doubt very much you would be happy shooting it unless you are a very seasoned magnum handgun shooter. Getting something you can shoot without being scared of it is more important than getting the biggest gun money can buy.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more... In Wisconsin and Michigan they tell you to yell and bang pots and pans to scare away the Black Bears cause they are fairly timid. If it attacked it's more of a case of mistaken identity were as a Grizzly, Kodiak or Polar bear are uniquely dangerous in their own ways. Double action does suck and so does heavy magnum rounds for anything other than slow well placed shots, like deer hunting or target shooting.
 
2. Before you decide you really need a double action revolver, just try shooting one sometime chambered for the round of your choice in double action mode and I think you'll find your accuracy fairly pathetic. Even with a double action revolver you'll probably shoot much more accurately single action.
Click to expand...

May be a quirk, but I shoot my 7.5" Redhawk .44 Mag much (much!) better double action than I do single action.
 
You must be used to the double action. Also, I've known people get used to the side pull and when they shoot a single action it feels too soft or the gun even moves to the left, not that I know your setup. Whatever works for you, oh yeah did I say that in my schpeel, lol. I think there are like at least 3 or more threads that ask a similar question and I think the consensus is similar to whatever works for you as an individual.

Also saw a youtube of a guy shooting a Kodiak with a high powered rifle while it was charging them and it ran away with hardly a limp. Hard to say how effective the bullet was at stopping it as it didn't kill it immediately but a combo of a loud bang and pain must have been what turned it around? Although I'd hesitate to try and scare off a grizzly, kodiak or polar with loud noise it might just agitate them. Not sure I guess it really depends on the moment, hard to plan for that.
 
Some friends and I were hunting in Alaska a few years ago. We split up to go up a mountain on Kodiak Island to hunt deer. There were 2 guys in one group with one armed with a 240 Weatherby Magnum and another with a 300 Weatherby Magnum. One remarked to the other about how cool it would be to see a bear. They then saw some deer running into some trees and then...

The bear!

The bear had probably been chasing the deer looking for a meal and, upon seeing two moving objects probably thought they were the deer. Anyway, it disappeared and suddenly came out very close to them and stood up on its hind legs looking them over. The veterinarian, armed with the 240 Weatherby took 2 or 3 shots and the bear wasn't impressed. The physician then took a shot into the air with the 300 Weatherby and the bear still wasn't particularly impressed. The vet remarked that they might have to shoot it but the bear then lost interest and left not because it was impressed by gunfire but just because it wanted to.

That bear was, of course, a Kodiak brown bear which is much bigger and potentially more aggressive than your typical black bear.
 
.357 sig
.357 mag
10mm auto
.45 long colt
.44 magnum
.454 cassull SP?
.500 SW
.50AE.
If I were going into bear country I would pack somthing .44 magnum or up.
Break my wrist, save my life.. deal
either way. all on that list will work.
 
Cosmoline said:
Boldly run away! (Warning--I use some strong language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYenxZOkW2M

BTW, there are about 1,000 threads on this topic already.
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No offense, but running is not suggested ever, they even tell you not to run in the national park pamphlets, it triggers "the predator chase" response. Even if it's a less aggressive black bear. That's a cool video, BTW! It's hard to get pictures or videos of large wild animals.
 
Grumulkin said:
Some friends and I were hunting in Alaska a few years ago. We split up to go up a mountain on Kodiak Island to hunt deer. There were 2 guys in one group with one armed with a 240 Weatherby Magnum and another with a 300 Weatherby Magnum. One remarked to the other about how cool it would be to see a bear. They then saw some deer running into some trees and then...

The bear!

The bear had probably been chasing the deer looking for a meal and, upon seeing two moving objects probably thought they were the deer. Anyway, it disappeared and suddenly came out very close to them and stood up on its hind legs looking them over. The veterinarian, armed with the 240 Weatherby took 2 or 3 shots and the bear wasn't impressed. The physician then took a shot into the air with the 300 Weatherby and the bear still wasn't particularly impressed. The vet remarked that they might have to shoot it but the bear then lost interest and left not because it was impressed by gunfire but just because it wanted to.

That bear was, of course, a Kodiak brown bear which is much bigger and potentially more aggressive than your typical black bear.
Click to expand...
The other bear attack I thought of is the one were the guy hits it on the head with a log and kills it, true story. The bear attacked him then his dog, so he clobbered it to death with a nearby log to defend his dog. I believe I saw it on youtube as well but it would take an hour to search for it again.
 
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