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Best way to change workplace policy?

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by Notbeinfringed, Oct 26, 2011.

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  1. Notbeinfringed

    Notbeinfringed Member

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    Long time reader, first time poster here. Like the title says, I am looking for peoples opinions on the best way to change an anti-gun company policy. The company I work for has a policy that guns, weapons or "dangerous devices" are not allowed on company property - even locked in my car in the parking lot. The policy even goes so far as to say that a dangerous device is anything used with the intent to cause harm even for self defense! So, according to the policy, if I use a tire iron to defend myself from a mugger in the parking lot, I could be fired. Add to that my workplace isn't exactly in the safest place and our "security" is notably sparse after dark and the folks doing the job during the day I think I could outrun at a slow jog... :scrutiny: While my workplace isn't open to the public, it still sucks that I have to disarm at home before going to work.

    I was thinking about this the other day and thinking that if this was a business, I wouldn't shop there. Of course, then I remembered that we do sell stuff! While I would love to just jump out and suggest everyone write letters and boycott, I do like a paycheck and wonder if the right thing to do wouldn't be to try and change things internally. So, what say you? Throw it out to the public or try to get corporate HR to change company policy?
     
  2. archigos

    archigos Member

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    Quite frankly, I think you're going to find two common responses - "Concealed is concealed" and "Judged by 12 or carried by 6".
    Unfortunately, depending on your company, I don't know how much success you're going to have in changing the company policy unless you're pretty high up the food chain. My fear would be that it would call attention to myself.
     
  3. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Become the boss. Done and done.
     
  4. kayak-man

    kayak-man Member

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    I'll vote for the "Legal Loophole" option. Get something in writing from your boss that says that as long as its NOT A WEAPON, you have it with you (I'd avoid words like "carry" as that might put up some red flags.)

    As far as I understand it, the legal definition of a weapon is something that has been used, or threatened to be used, to harm another person. Therefore, a holstered GLOCK is not a weapon untill it leaves the holster.

    I'm no lawyer, so please, don't just assume that I am claiming this as fact: its merely something I suspect is fact.

    For what its worth, I work for the School District, so instead of justing fired, I could potentially go to jail if I carry at work. I feel your pain.


    You may be better off with something that is obviously not a "weapon" such as an umbrella, maglight, or "that peice of pipe you use to adjust your chair." If you know how to use a kubotan, then a mini-maglight might work well.


    Welcome to The High Road.

    Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
     
  5. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    Well, given that you do not post your locale, it is difficult to help.

    If you are in OK or TX, laws have already been passed to provide protection for employees.

    If you are somewhere else, research these laws and get started in your state to get a similar law enacted.
     
  6. wep45

    wep45 Member

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    1. get a whole bunch of cash.:what:

    2. buy the company.:cool:

    3. change the policy.:evil:
     
  7. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    I've never done this, so I guess take the idea at face value, but why not try writing corporate HR a business letter outlining your thoughts behind it? Similar to how people write their congressmen when trying to get them to support a new law, or a change to one.

    From what I understand, most companies with a policy like the one OP explained take that stance to prevent lawsuits against the company after an employee's act of self-defense, even if it was justified.

    The worst they can do is say no, though, right? I don't think it would make them think of you as a potential future liability. Then again, if the job is really important to you, it may not be worth the risk (if there is any - someone with senior-management experience can probably chime in on this).

    For me, I can't afford to lose my job for any reason, because my wife and I have a 9-month-old daughter, and my wife stays home with her. So our income is my responsibility alone. That being said, I personally wouldn't try to change any policy. I'm a security guard on a college campus, and if an active shooter ever came on the campus, it's probable that we security guards would be primary targets, but we aren't allowed to have any weapons whatsoever. But like I said.. until something better comes along, I'm just glad to have a good-paying job in this economy.

    Good luck to you. Apologies for the long post.
     
  8. RatDrall

    RatDrall Member

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    Quit and find a job working for people who care about you. Unarmed security is not the place for anyone who doesn't want to be shot first because they are wearing a uniform.

    Stuff like this makes me glad that I work with family and can carry whatever I want...
     
  9. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    I live in an at-will employment state and I value my job.

    So I won't be writing any letters to my employers any time soon...
     
  10. BBQLS1

    BBQLS1 Member

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    What state do you live in.


    Many states have laws on the books preventing employers from firing employees over such policies.
     
  11. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    They can, and will, find an excuse to let you go
     
  12. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    You need to provide a lot more info.

    What type of business?

    What restricts public access to the parking lot and building?

    What state?

    Large corporation or smaller owner/operated?

    Employee owned?
     
  13. asia331

    asia331 Member

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    Possible Courses of Action

    1. Concealed is concealed
    2. Work hard; gain company influence and position, change policy
    3. Non aggressive use of cognitive dissonance conversation whenever subject brought up
    4. Request company policy position on compensation should one find themselves a disarmed victim of grave harm on company property.
     
  14. Notbeinfringed

    Notbeinfringed Member

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    Large corporation, not employee owned

    Nothing really restricts access. There is a (mostly decorative) fence, but the gates are open with an unmanned guard shack on weekdays, even at night. Weekends, the gate is down with a single (unarmed) guard.

    State is Michigan. Wish we would join OK and TX in having a parking lot law. They have been introduced, but not gotten out of committee to my knowledge.

    I appreciate the comments about buying the company or becoming the boss, but both are highly remote possibilities. A letter from my boss, or even my bosses boss wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on if anyone in HR wanted me gone for having a gun in the parking lot. Oh, and the policy specifically says "firearms, weapons or dangerous devices"... They even sent out a nice little email recently reminding everyone of this policy because hunting season is approaching.
     
  15. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Your best bet is to work hard towards getting a parking lot law in place and then approaching your employer after the force of law is behind you.

    Alternately, you need to assemble a body of data that shows that states with laws that forbid employers from allowing carry permit holders from having their firearms in their vehicles have no lower rate of firearms violence than those that permit it. Also, you need to then show the same for employers that permit employees to carry. Next you need to find like minded employees who will support your effort. A lone voice has no influence.
     
  16. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    Start your own business.
     
  17. Byrd666

    Byrd666 Member

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    If you work in Texas, you are allowed to lock your firearm in your vehicle on company property. If not, like another or two said, either become THE boss or start your own company.
     
  18. OH_Spartan

    OH_Spartan Member

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    This is a common policy, especially in publicly traded companies. If a person is injured (or God forbid worse) when attacked on company property, I think worker saftey regulations and worker's compensation laws cover the injury/death. I do not believe there is a distinction for malintent.

    What if the person is disarmed by company policy and attacked on the way to or from work? Does the company have any liability in that scenario?

    I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on TV. I also hope this question doesn't take us too far from intent of OP.
     
  19. Birch Knoll

    Birch Knoll Member

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    IANAL, but it would seem that you consented to being disarmed by your company's policy by choosing to continue to work there.
     
  20. chrisb507

    chrisb507 Member

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    I would suggest that going directly to your employer is not the best option; at most companies, most policies are not up for debate/discussion with the general working population. If you choose to work there, you agree to accept the requirements of the job.

    An anonymous approach--or going very informally to someone you know/trust in either the HR or management chain--might generate some traction. But I wouldn't bet on the policy being changed for liability/we're-scared-of-armed-people reasons.
     
  21. Skyshot

    Skyshot Member

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    Unless you have numbers (other employees) on you side who aren't afraid of management. I would say, keep your mouth shut and fly under the radar.
     
  22. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Their house, their rules

    Don't like them?

    Become your own boss and set your own rules

    All of these people who advocate breaking a company's policy while on their property are advocating activities that border on being illegal in some locales. Their misguided justifications to suit their own ends is amazingly hypocritical to what they expect from others

    Do what you want, realizing the consequences of your actions
     
  23. Dan Forrester

    Dan Forrester Member

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    Pass a federal law requiring corporations to honor their employees constitutional rights as a prerequisite for participating in any government program, receiving funding, loans or bailout money.

    For example: Where I work we bill Medicare and Medicaid. My employer must honor all my constructional rights at the workplace before they are allowed to bill the federal government.

    Another example: My father builds helicopters. In order for his company to be eligible for a contract with the military they must first be honoring their employees constitutional rights.

    Honestly what major corporation these days is not in bed with the federal government. Benito Mussolini would be proud to see his ideas implemented on such a large scale by democrats and republicans alike.

    I really think by tackling the problem like this you could promote it as a liberal, progressive measure (which it is) and get not only the NRA people like me behind it but also the ACLU, possibly the unions and even the “occupy wall street” types on board.

    Just some crazy thought I had one night.

    What do you guys think?

    Dan
     
  24. northark147

    northark147 Member

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    The only way I can think of is to change companies. That and concealed is concealed, I'd rather be judged by 12, and you better have a real darn good reason to strip search me...
     
  25. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    Can you park somewhere else?
     
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