Better Load for 32 H&R Self Defense Rounds?

[jski]

Been working on developing a good self defense load for my 327 LCR using 32 H&R rounds.

I have 2 contenders:

1) 85 gr XTP with 6.7 gr of True Blue
1230+ FPS
85 gr. @ 1230 fps = 285.5 Ft-lbs.

and

2) 100 gr XTP with 6.3 gr of True Blue.
1080+ FPS
100 gr. @ 1080 fps = 259 ft-lbs KE.

Is either preferable to the other?

 

[Show Me]

Two cents. Factory is for self defense. Pick your load then try to copy it for all the practice

 

[jski]

Two cents. Factory is for self defense. Pick your load then try to copy it for all the practice

Is that for legal reasons?

 

[jski]

Two cents. Factory is for self defense. Pick your load then try to copy it for all the practice

Of course, there are 2 commercial self defense 32 H&R rounds out there (with similar ballistics) that I’m aware of. One is a 85 gr JHP Federal round and the other is a 100 gr XTP Buffalo Bore round, which brings us back to the original question.

 

[Show Me]

Is that for legal reasons?

Nope. Factory for hunting dangerous game is a good reason also for most. Good visiting with you

 

[jski]

Nope. Factory for hunting dangerous game is a good reason also for most. Good visiting with you

I’ve heard arguments on both sides: use only factory ammo for self defense and using handloads for self defense isn’t a problem.

 

[Rule3]

Been working on developing a good self defense load for my 327 LCR using 32 H&R rounds.


Is either preferable to the other?

No, shot placement is all that matters, not gonna get into legal issues of hand loads.

 

[EricBu]

Been working on developing a good self defense load for my 327 LCR using 32 H&R rounds.

I have 2 contenders:

1) 85 gr XTP with 6.7 gr of True Blue
1230+ FPS
85 gr. @ 1230 fps = 285.5 Ft-lbs.

and

2) 100 gr XTP with 6.3 gr of True Blue.
1080+ FPS
100 gr. @ 1080 fps = 259 ft-lbs KE.

Is either preferable to the other?

Whatever shoots best out of your gun and that you shoot the best. True Blue may not be my first choice, and in your LCR you can easily load the top end of 32 Mag...AA5 and AA7 will bring you 1300 fps plus.....which only matters if you can hit something with it, lol, and the LCR can be a handful with hot ammo.

I'll add this, because this argument drives me nuts. Fact: "factory for self defense" is a myth started by Mr. Ayoob in the 80s to sell magazine adds for ammo companies....he has doubled down over the years, and still talks about it in his **paid** speaking engagements....he has never been able to produce an actually documented court case where a conviction or a sentence turned on a reloaded defense bullet, and neither has anybody else. I've had a standing offer on the interwebs for 20 years, I'll shoot a nice chunk of cash to the first person who can produce a documented court case with case number, transcripts, etc. Nobody has been able to take me up on it. You will see after this statment the normal "well I heard...." and "I was a cop and I saw....", but none of them will be able to produce a single documented case reference. So ignore that mythical invented deal right there, and carry what you want.

 

[mdi]

I’ve heard arguments on both sides: use only factory ammo for self defense and using handloads for self defense isn’t a problem.

I have never heard of a handload being mentioned in court as reason for prosecution. Been visiting forums since 2006 and never any factual reports, just speculation.

I used this for info to develop loads for my Charter Arms Professional, wound up using a Hornady XTP over CFE Pistol...

Pocket Pistol Caliber Ballistic Gel Tests - LuckyGunner.com Labs

Pocket pistol caliber ballistic gelatin results. We tested dozens of different loads to give you an idea what's best for self-defense.

www.luckygunner.com

 

[Show Me]

Whatever shoots best out of your gun and that you shoot the best. True Blue may not be my first choice, and in your LCR you can easily load the top end of 32 Mag...AA5 and AA7 will bring you 1300 fps plus.....which only matters if you can hit something with it, lol, and the LCR can be a handful with hot ammo.

I'll add this, because this argument drives me nuts. Fact: "factory for self defense" is a myth started by Mr. Ayoob in the 80s to sell magazine adds for ammo companies....he has doubled down over the years, and still talks about it in his **paid** speaking engagements....he has never been able to produce an actually documented court case where a conviction or a sentence turned on a reloaded defense bullet, and neither has anybody else. I've had a standing offer on the interwebs for 20 years, I'll shoot a nice chunk of cash to the first person who can produce a documented court case with case number, transcripts, etc. Nobody has been able to take me up on it. You will see after this statment the normal "well I heard...." and "I was a cop and I saw....", but none of them will be able to produce a single documented case reference. So ignore that mythical invented deal right there, and carry what you want.

After reading your rant. Decaf? Who brought up legal issues. Well you. I love it when someone gets a auto loader 22lr for their wife's protection. At least when you have a dud you can just pull the trigger on the revolver. We should start a new post. "Anyone ever have a squib". You can pretend all you want but it happens enough an informed shooter has a oak dowel in their range bag. So no bear reloads for me. Again my two cents. Good to visit with you

 

[EricBu]

After reading your rant. Decaf? Who brought up legal issues. Well you. I love it when someone gets a auto loader 22lr for their wife's protection. At least when you have a dud you can just pull the trigger on the revolver. We should start a new post. "Anyone ever have a squib". You can pretend all you want but it happens enough an informed shooter has a oak dowel in their range bag. So no bear reloads for me. Again my two cents. Good to visit with you

An "informed shooter" would never use a wood dowel. Not that your post made any sense at all, and I certainly don't understand why you brought 22lr into the discussion. Also, if you create that many squibs, lol...may want to look at a different hobby. You should probably stick to factory yourself. You have a nice day.

 

[mdi]

After reading your rant. Decaf? Who brought up legal issues. Well you. I love it when someone gets a auto loader 22lr for their wife's protection. At least when you have a dud you can just pull the trigger on the revolver. We should start a new post. "Anyone ever have a squib". You can pretend all you want but it happens enough an informed shooter has a oak dowel in their range bag. So no bear reloads for me. Again my two cents. Good to visit with you

Who brought up "22 lr for wife's protection"? An informed shooter ain't too informed if he has an oak (or any wood) for a range rod...

 

[SingleActionAndrew]

Back to the matter at hand: if I were being purely theoretical and not talking about real life, I might consider a couple of the 85s up front for the splash and 100s after in case it's a bear wearing leathers. Expansion first, penetration if that didn't work. If the first couple didn't work against the bear we aren't talking precision shooting at that point where we're concerned about an inch up or down POI at 50 ft or immeasurable at 7 ft. If I were playing a video game that's how I'd think about it.

There is a stickied thread elsewhere on THR about why in the real world you might consider factory ammo. That's a Legal section topic not Handloading load development.

 

[Walkalong]

Back to the matter at hand:

Thanks

That's a Legal section topic not Handloading load development.

Yep.

 

[Bush Pilot]

Use the hottest load you can stand to shoot. Any shots you might take will probably not be more than 10 feet so tack driving accuracy isn't neccessary. I've spoken to police officers that said "a good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the ammo". FWIW, I shoot "stiff " 327 reloads for carry and lite loads in 32 HR for practice.

 

[jski]

Whatever shoots best out of your gun and that you shoot the best. True Blue may not be my first choice, and in your LCR you can easily load the top end of 32 Mag...AA5 and AA7 will bring you 1300 fps plus.....which only matters if you can hit something with it, lol, and the LCR can be a handful with hot ammo.

I'll add this, because this argument drives me nuts. Fact: "factory for self defense" is a myth started by Mr. Ayoob in the 80s to sell magazine adds for ammo companies....he has doubled down over the years, and still talks about it in his **paid** speaking engagements....he has never been able to produce an actually documented court case where a conviction or a sentence turned on a reloaded defense bullet, and neither has anybody else. I've had a standing offer on the interwebs for 20 years, I'll shoot a nice chunk of cash to the first person who can produce a documented court case with case number, transcripts, etc. Nobody has been able to take me up on it. You will see after this statment the normal "well I heard...." and "I was a cop and I saw....", but none of them will be able to produce a single documented case reference. So ignore that mythical invented deal right there, and carry what you want.

I offer this for your consideration:

 

[jski]

Whatever shoots best out of your gun and that you shoot the best. True Blue may not be my first choice, and in your LCR you can easily load the top end of 32 Mag...AA5 and AA7 will bring you 1300 fps plus.....which only matters if you can hit something with it, lol, and the LCR can be a handful with hot ammo.

I'll add this, because this argument drives me nuts. Fact: "factory for self defense" is a myth started by Mr. Ayoob in the 80s to sell magazine adds for ammo companies....he has doubled down over the years, and still talks about it in his **paid** speaking engagements....he has never been able to produce an actually documented court case where a conviction or a sentence turned on a reloaded defense bullet, and neither has anybody else. I've had a standing offer on the interwebs for 20 years, I'll shoot a nice chunk of cash to the first person who can produce a documented court case with case number, transcripts, etc. Nobody has been able to take me up on it. You will see after this statment the normal "well I heard...." and "I was a cop and I saw....", but none of them will be able to produce a single documented case reference. So ignore that mythical invented deal right there, and carry what you want.

One my primary reasons for choosing True Blue so often is how well it meters and consistently. It also performs well when it comes to delivering performance as advertised on their data site.

 

[EricBu]

I offer this for your consideration:

And that is specifically one of the paid engagements where Ayoob doubles down on it. You'll note, his references are always vague, and the cases don't actually seem to exist. It's always the same, has been "one case I've seen..." or "I heard of this case", or "once time I assisted in a case...", never a specific reference. Which if you listen to him a lot, or read his articles a lot (or did back in the 80s)...you'll see he always uses a very detailed case references with names and dates to make other points...just never specifically a case where a verdict or sentence was turned on a handload. He's a fantastic story teller....note the way he makes vague references about the handloading related cases.....but then he compares it to a known case, with names and dates and details we are all familiar with (zimmerman).......that used commercial ammo, lol, to demonstrate the importance of residue... If he actually had a **real** case to reference regarding handloads and self defense....he would reference it. LOL....dude is making money on this, and has been since the 80s...he can't go back now.

Now, there is a neat study floating around, but dam if I can find a reference to it now, but it compared outcomes of defense shootings across the US involving AR15's, and other long guns, and found that cases with similar circumstances resulted in a greater likelihood of charges and/or a conviction for the individual using an AR 15 over a long gun with a "wooden stock". Which is unrelated to this topic, but only used to highlight the potential of "perception" playing a role in a court case, so indeed the possibility that hand loaded self defense ammo **could** play a role exists, there just isn't any documented evidence or examples that it has ever happened to date. I put forth that you are just as likely to suffer from that perception issue using anything that has ever been portrayed as an especially "deadly" combination in the media, whether firearm type, ammo type (black talon comes to mind), or anything like that. Hell, a prosecutor could demonize ANY hollowpoint, "the defendant is so blood thirsty he used specialized ammunition design to inflict maximum injury, a type even banned for use by the US Military under the Geneva Convention it is so devastating". Use FMJ? Well, they'll switch that up, "the defendant is so blood thirsty that he used specialized ammunition designed and intended for military use".

 

[EricBu]

One my primary reasons for choosing True Blue so often is how well it meters and consistently. It also performs well when it comes to delivering performance as advertised on their data site.

No beef with True Blue...but that's one I'd reserve for full house 327 Magnum, not 32 H&R, but that's just me, and I don't fault you using it, especially if that's what you have, I've just gotten better results with AA5 and AA7 in 32 Mag myself. Heck, even AA2 works pretty good, but it's a teeny bit to fast for me in that caliber.

 

[mdi]

I expect Walkalong to close this thread pretty soon...

 

[Walkalong]

It's tempting. Let's stay on topic without the side conversation about legal aspects.

 

[westernrover]

Check the results in ballistics gel.
Some available resources are https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#32HRMag
and another one to check is ammunitiontogo.com

Bear in mind those are both shown in Clear Ballistics Gel which causes less hollowpoint expansion and has been shown to result in something like 35% greater penetration than the standard 10% gel. Hence, you may want to see more than the standard 12-18" when using clear gel vs. real gel. Here's more details on that:


It's a 3 part article:

Ballistic gelatin comparisons: Part I

Is clear, synthetic gelatin an acceptable substitute for FBI-standard, 10% calibrated gelatin?

www.police1.com

Ballistic gelatin comparisons: Part II

A variety of bullet weights, velocities, pressure levels, styles and designs were represented in the data, to ensure the broadest comparison of the two test mediums

www.police1.com

Ballistic gelatin comparisons: Part III

There's a clear difference between synthetic and organic gelatin that law enforcement needs to understand

www.police1.com

 

[Riomouse911]

I have both of those bullets on the shelf and I have loaded several different loads with both in .32 H&R and .327 FM cases. (Never used True Blue powder, but I’ve tried others in the stash. AA#9 and a 100 gr XTP in the .327 is a good choice.)



Of the two loads you list, I personally would lean towards the 100 gr XTP load only because I think it should have deeper penetration than the 85. Neither should be much of a kicker at .32 H&R speeds, so in reality whichever load shoots best for you in your gun will work.

Stay safe.

 

[Walkalong]

Of the two loads you list, I personally would lean towards the 100 gr XTP load only because I think it should have deeper penetration than the 85. Neither should be much of a kicker at .32 H&R speeds, so in reality whichever load shoots best for you in your gun will work.

Stay safe.

Same here, both on the shelf, decided the 100 gr was the way to go at the speeds they can achieve in .32 Mag. Right or wrong? Can’t prove either, but that’s the route I took .

 

[Mostly Lead]

Been working on developing a good self defense load for my 327 LCR using 32 H&R rounds.

I have 2 contenders:

1) 85 gr XTP with 6.7 gr of True Blue
1230+ FPS
85 gr. @ 1230 fps = 285.5 Ft-lbs.

and

2) 100 gr XTP with 6.3 gr of True Blue.
1080+ FPS
100 gr. @ 1080 fps = 259 ft-lbs KE.

Is either preferable to the other?

Some folks like the light & speedy approach, some the slow & heavy. Given the number of variables in any real-world encounter, both have pro's and con's that have been debated since the origin of powder. Certainly won't be settled in this thread...

I'd simply go with the one that shot the best "for me".