Better Utility Caliber, .22 or .380?

[amprecon]

I've been looking hard at these two pistols for a MAK/PPK style pistol and understand that Firestorm (formerly or concurrently Bersa) makes a pretty good product for a very reasonable price.

However, I'm stuck on which would be a more utility caliber. I feel that I would shoot the .22 much more than the .380 at the range and that it would make a much more fun plinker in the woods but wonder if it would be effective enough for defensive use.

I also have .22 rifles and have much ammo for them whereas I don't have a .380 anymore and really don't want to pick up another caliber to stock for it.

I think my biggest concern is using it as a CCW would it be effective enough? I currently ccw a G23, but of course want something smaller at times. If the .22 is not to be considered enough for ccw, than I could consider the .380 Firestorm or a MAK if they are still around at reasonable enough prices.

 

[GunNut]

.380 would be a better self defense caliber than .22lr.

I would really look at a small 9mm instead. Something like a Kahr CW9 would work great and still is fairly reasonably priced. Also, 9mm ammo is cheaper than .380.

 

[starpuss]

go for the 22 it still has more then enf power for self defense

 

[Princi]

Neither

"Friends don't let their friends carry..."

Having said that, I would strongly discourage you from carrying 22LR for self-defense. I remember a couple of years ago a cabby in Dallas was shot 8 times with a 22 and was back at work the next day (they were not able to remove all the bullets).

If I'm wearing really tight pants (you tend to gain weight over the years), I do carry a NAA 22 WMR in a pocket holster. However, I really don't feel safe with it.

 

[KevininPa]

If you already have a G23 for a carrier, get the .22 for some fun plinking. My carriers are .380's and I have the Firestorm FS22 as cheap practice because the ergonomics are basically the same for pointability. When at home ( rural, no crime ), I'll slip the Firesorm in my back pocket while walking the dog. It's light and reasonably compact. Used Bersa Thunder .380s run cheap if you still want something smaller later on if the .22 doesn't fulfill the need you thought. I paid around $260 for my FS22 with an extra mag almost 2 years ago. Around the same time I paid $230 for a Bersa Thunder .380 with an extra mag. A friend of mine just purchased a Thunder CC for $260 with just the mag it comes with. Nice shooter! And it is as small as my FEG SMC-380 ( PPK clone ) and holds 8 rounds plus one in the tube. My FEG holds 6+1. Very pocketable. HTH.

Kevin in Pa

 

[jahwarrior]

while i would hesitate to carry any caliber less than 9mm for SD, like my dad says: "a pebble from a slingshot will kill you as dead as a .45!"

 

[halvey]

"a pebble from a slingshot will kill you as dead as a .45!"

May CAN kill you.

 

[Average Joe]

decide what you want it for. .22 for fun, and 380 for carry.

 

[CWL]

Utility is not the same as Self Defense. You are going to have to compromise somewhere.

.380 is better than .22lr for self defense because it makes a bigger hole and is a centerfire.

.22lr is better for plinking and ammo-sharing with your other guns, but it should not be your first choice as a SD pistol round. Rimfire, light bullet, small diameter, low velocity from short barrels.

 

[Surefire]

Why not just get a 9mm?

.380 ammo is high in price relative to 9mm, so its not a good utility round. Its also a weaker self-defense round than the 9mm. The .22 is a GREAT utility round, but is a terrible self-defense round.

The 9mm is fairly cheap for a centerfire round, and has good defense capability for a handgun. It is a decent compromise between utility and defense.

 

[Ed Ames]

I guess it depends on what you mean by utility.

A good 22 pistol can't be beat. Ruger Mk <whatever>, buckmark, woodsman, mosquito, trailside, P22, the list of options goes on. The best part is that you can go out and shoot all afternoon for $15. Compare this: Russian-made .380 is $0.20 per round (ammoman.com).... the same site sells .22lr for $0.04 per round. Either one is fine for ninja squirrels. Neither is any good for bears.

If I didn't already have one, a 22lr pistol is the first handgun I'd buy.

 

[amprecon]

I've had several pistols in these calibers including 9mm and .380 and even .22, but none of them really did the trick for me. The 9mm Kahrs and G17 were alright, but just weren't IT for one reason for another, the G19's were great until I discovered the G23.

I never really felt any sort of confidence in the .380, just not at all impressed with this caliber and buying them only becaue of the small sizes of guns offered in them to include the P3-AT and Colt Gov't model.

The .22, well I've had the 10/22 and Marlin 60 since as far back as I can remember. Delving into .22 handguns every once in awhile the first being a S&W 2214 with 3" barrel, could not hit anything with it, no one could. Browning Buckmark, better but not up to what all the hype was and it was a heavy gun and then the Single-Six which was a lot of gun for such a small caliber, just didn't do IT for me.

So I can't say that this Firestorm .22 will do it for me either, but I'm gonna try and see what happens. Plus having to buy a bunch of different calibers is just a straight pain and expensive.

 

[51Cards]

My Ruger Mk III gets shot waaaaaaaaaay more than either of my .380s. It's also contributed waaaaaaaay more to whatever shooting skills I've scraped together. Much cheaper, too, of course.

At 50 yards, I'd say it's actually deadlier --- mainly because it will actually hit something at 50 yards. At 5 yards, well, I don't think the Ruger would cut it.

 

[sm]

amprecon,

I note you are in Memphis, this is going to play heavy on my reply .

First, I do not know your experience, skill sets, and quite frankly, none of my business so I do not want to know.
Still, ask yourself and be honest with you, the rest of us don't need to know.
Define "Utitlity", where you shoot, how often, private places for free, or membership, indoor or outdoor, small game hunting...etc.

Second, I am a huge believer in .22 firearms for developing skill sets with centerfire guns; pistols and rifles. Therefore having as close as can platform in .22, to a centerfire, to me is ingraining skill sets, with less expensive ammunition costs and less felt recoil
Fact is, some physically limited folks can hit tennis balls for sure all day long, and on better days, a golf ball all day long with a Ruger, Browning, Hi-Standard, Colt - .22 rim-fire semi-auto pistol.
Ditto for .22 cal Revolvers like Colt, Smith in J , K and D frame sizes.

Third, I believe in gun fit, trying a variety of gun, find what fits, and being one with that gun.
Then, buy more just like it - Redundancy.

Fourth, I have no problem with buying, owning and shooting a gun for reasons of pride of ownership, fun factor and having a gun a new shooter can be introduced to shooting with.

Fifth, Memphis is a dangerous town! Always has been and not going to improve.

Tom Givens @ Rangemaster is whom I would go see, if you have not already.
In the USA, of all the CCW instructors, Rangemaster students have been in the most Gunfights.
IIRC, the two students that did not survive, were not carrying concealed.

I will bow to any correction or editing of what I just typed, still the point is-
Memphis is one place, for damn sure, one that is of age to CCW, should, and have the Skills sets to be in and around Memphis.

I have often, and have recently, and will continue to suggest folks near, or in Memphis see a CCW instructor, even if not Tom.
Have a place to get skill sets, and continue quality practice.

I do not know, and I will not speak for Tom, or Rangemaster, but I darn should see if they have some arrangement, to shoot some guns to see what fits you best.


Memphis and .22s. Yeah, I know some physically limited, and one included a person with a detached retina, Doc's orders, no Recoil. that carries/carried Ruger, Brownings, Colt Woodsmans...heck some only have one hand/arm.
They had a backup .22 as well, Beretta 21A.
They have countless rds downrange and lots of skills sets.

Memphis and .380, Tip Up Beretta or Browning BDAs.
Same situations with these folks. These guns run, and put bullets where these folks want them placed, every time.


My last "jaunt" to Memphis, I had two 1911s CCWing, a pump shotgun and lever action 30-30 - handy,
My niche gun, a 9mm was with me as well.

Me and my associates included one bodyguard, when we took in some blues and BBQ.

In the middle of Podunk...less folks and crime, is one thing, Memphis is Memphis and goes way back to being what it is.

Oh I took a RRA AR with 5K rds and LNIB BHP with 2500 rds to Memphis with me.
16 year old girls are sometimes home alone, and her B-Day present was the RRA. *grin*

 

[woad_yurt]

I know this is an autoloader thread but have you thought of a .22 revolver? I have a few DA H&R 922s and they're dirt cheap, accurate and hold 9 rounds. Although I've never owned a .22 autoloader, my friends have a few of them in different makes and models. At the range, I've noticed that jamming is an ever present possibility. On gunbroker, I've paid $75-$92 for good revolvers. 9 rounds of Velocitors or Stingers will make for one good Swiss cheese torso. And, if you have a dud round, just pull the trigger to get to the next one. If it's strictly autoload for you, I think a .380 would be the way to go. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

 

[YardVarmint]

You could get a matching set of Bersa's in each caliber.

As for as I know there is no Makaorv in .22lr only a eccentric conversion kit.

Walther does the PPK in .380 but I can't recall if they do a .22 in that or just the TPH???

Now at risk of sounding like a "glock fanboy" if you want something compact for a CCW and for plinking a G26 in 9mm along with an Advantage Arms .22LR kit might be a good combo.

 

[KevininPa]

Though I love my FS22, and I'm no fan what-so-ever of Glocks ( or any polymer pistol for that point ), YardVarmint may have something that would be the best gig for you. Especially since you already have a feel for and an appreciation of Glocks. You would also take advantage of two inexpensive calibers. 9mm is less expensive than my treasured .380 ( that's my carry caliber, yeah-yeah, I know, I know! ), and the .22 part speaks for itself. The only possible drawback is the price of the pistol and the conversion together. But this is ground I know nothing about, the Glock guys need to chime in here.

 

[AZ_Rebel]

"go for the 22 it still has more then enf power for self defense"

I couldn't disagree more! While a .22 can kill that misses the point of SD shooting, i.e. STOPPING. When confronted with a life threatening situation it must be so important that your adversary STOPS doing what he is doing that whether he lives or dies is not an issue. When considering STOPPING a .22 is woefully inadequate because of the lack of shock. A bigger, heavier bullet is needed to induce the type of trauma required for reliable STOPS.
The .380 is the minimal caliber that should be considered as a self defense round. A 9mm is better and a .45 is better yet.

 

[RyanM]

A Mak or PPK isn't going to be all that much smaller than your G23, maybe 3/4" shorter at most, and will be about the same weight empty. And with about 1/3rd as much power. I'd say go with a Kahr MK40. Smaller than PPK, same caliber as G23. And if you do some hunting, you can find a used MK40 for only slightly more than a new PPK.

 

[obxned]

If you don't own a .22 pistol, it should be your next purchase. .380 and other centerfire ammo is too expensive to allow for enough practice to get good and stay good.

 

[mekender]

if you want smaller, why not go with a walther ppk/s or a kel-tec pf9? or the new walther pps if you are feeling like spending a good amount...

 

[Steve C]

The solution to the conundrum is to get both. The .22 will allow you to practice a lot at a low cost with a pistol that's the same in handling characteristics as the .380. If you need a defense or carry pistol take the .380 with you.

This is the same reason people buy .22 lr conversions for the .45 and the Bersa/Firestorms are not that expensive. At $12 a box for .380 practice ammo it won't take long to break even on the .22 lr (extra gun). The .22 can be pressed into a defensive role but it wouldn't be the best choice.