"Beware the man with one rifle."
- Thread starter JWarren
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Grunt
Member
I think that chiche is accurate for the "dirty 30's" but not today. I own FALs, M-14s, ARs, AKs, a Garand, a couple .30 carbines, SKSs, and quite a few other odds and ends and I'm at home with all of them having never had a problem hitting anything I aim at or manipulating any ofthe controls. On the other hand, I remember one year several years back working as a spotter for the local range's "deer rifle sight-in day" for one shooter with a Remington 788 in .222 (I have the same rifle but mine has a different scope) that was a "one rifle" owner. Now it might have been his making a dope change after each shot...or it might have been the mixed bag of loose ammo (no, no two headstamps or bullet tips were the same) but he was finally satisfied with a 6 inch group at 100 yards!
He looks over to me and says "that's a pretty good group." I told him 'that isn't a group, it's a freakin' pattern!", took out my old iron-sighted rack grade AK and easily outshot his "pretty good group."
No today I think the man with one rifle is your typical Fudd as others have said, pulls his rifle out of the closet once a year, finds whatever ammo he's had around from the previous year that's left over (maybe...just maybe he'll buy another box...or not
) zero it in on a rock if that's handy then try to shoot a deer. He might clean it...or maybe not, before he puts it back in the case and back into the closet never to be seen again until the next years hunting season.
"Beware the man with one rifle because he probalby knows how to use it?" More like "Beware the man with one rifle because he's probably more of a danger to himself and those around him than the target he's trying to shoot.":banghead:
He looks over to me and says "that's a pretty good group." I told him 'that isn't a group, it's a freakin' pattern!", took out my old iron-sighted rack grade AK and easily outshot his "pretty good group." No today I think the man with one rifle is your typical Fudd as others have said, pulls his rifle out of the closet once a year, finds whatever ammo he's had around from the previous year that's left over (maybe...just maybe he'll buy another box...or not
) zero it in on a rock if that's handy then try to shoot a deer. He might clean it...or maybe not, before he puts it back in the case and back into the closet never to be seen again until the next years hunting season. "Beware the man with one rifle because he probalby knows how to use it?" More like "Beware the man with one rifle because he's probably more of a danger to himself and those around him than the target he's trying to shoot.":banghead:
Magnuumpwr
Member
When I bought my Savage 112FV 223, it became my one go to gun. Being that as it was, I knew exactly where zero was for different yardages just by sight. Then I started buying "bigger and better" guns and have since just shot my new guns till satisfied with their accuracy. After which I buy a new rifle and start the cycle over again. Being that I don't "hunt" (deer lease and such), very few of my rifles ever see the light of day other than to clean them. Threads like this remind me of just how much I used to love shooting my savage!
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
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This discussion reminds me of a conversation I heard typed on the net a few years ago, which went allegedly like this...Ol' timer says, I've only ever bought one box of ammo in my life; this here 50 round (now-empty) box of .22 magnum shells; I killed 48 deer with it. Why only 48? says his friend. Well, I had to use 2 shots to sight in my rifle.
gandog56
Member
I would say no. I own three Mosin Nagants, a 91/30, an M38, and an M44. While each of them fire the same 7.62X54R round, all three of them have their own separate personalities and idiosyncrasies.
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Jwarren:
Lets look at the intent if this little quip shall we.
Its one man and one rifle. If there is another barrel placed on that gun then it turns into another rifle.
Again the intent. You can shoot any rifle and almost always "one rifle at a time" I never shot two at a time. Have you?
The intent again, is for the writer to place an idea into your head. Accuracy
and according to whom that person might be perceiving that accuracy might be against. The first word "beware" serves as a warning. if you are evil, you should heed that warning.
Look at it from the writer's intent.
Lets look at the intent if this little quip shall we.
Its one man and one rifle. If there is another barrel placed on that gun then it turns into another rifle.
Again the intent. You can shoot any rifle and almost always "one rifle at a time" I never shot two at a time. Have you?
The intent again, is for the writer to place an idea into your head. Accuracy
and according to whom that person might be perceiving that accuracy might be against. The first word "beware" serves as a warning. if you are evil, you should heed that warning.
Look at it from the writer's intent.
Everyone I know that can shoot well has multiple rifles. It takes practice to shoot well and when you do a lot of shooting you naturally want to try shooting different guns. Then you find out that different guns excel at different things and you start buying guns to fill different niches.
As others have noted, the man with one gun generally has a hand me down bolt action or a cheap SKS and it stays in the back of their closet gathering dust for years at a time.
As others have noted, the man with one gun generally has a hand me down bolt action or a cheap SKS and it stays in the back of their closet gathering dust for years at a time.
Psywarrior13
Member
Just my .02 here... But when it comes to the folks I know, the more guns they have, the more time they spend at the range....
From the OP:
This is for all the posts about the gun being left in the back of the closet collecting dust. While this is sadly true in the majority of cases, it really isn't what the OP asked.
And now to the "Do as I say, not as I do" part of my post. This thread kind of reminds me of another saying, "Beware the wrath of the patient man." (Now imagine the patient man only has one rifle!)
Emphasis added.
This is for all the posts about the gun being left in the back of the closet collecting dust. While this is sadly true in the majority of cases, it really isn't what the OP asked.
And now to the "Do as I say, not as I do" part of my post. This thread kind of reminds me of another saying, "Beware the wrath of the patient man." (Now imagine the patient man only has one rifle!)
Brian Dale
Member
OK, lions, here it is:
No. Multiple, similar rifles are not "one rifle."
The thesis is that one should not disparage someone who has only one rifle. "He probably knows how to use it" reminds the listener that the effects of practice are amplified by spending all of one's efforts with a single rifle to which one is accustomed and which is suitable for the tasks at hand.
Clear?
My mind and body do better if I shoot .22s, as well. With one, high quality centerfire and a .22 of similar configuration, I believe that I'd maximize my own skill, if that were my only goal.
The OP wrote,
No. Multiple, similar rifles are not "one rifle."
The thesis is that one should not disparage someone who has only one rifle. "He probably knows how to use it" reminds the listener that the effects of practice are amplified by spending all of one's efforts with a single rifle to which one is accustomed and which is suitable for the tasks at hand.
Clear?
My mind and body do better if I shoot .22s, as well. With one, high quality centerfire and a .22 of similar configuration, I believe that I'd maximize my own skill, if that were my only goal.
The OP wrote,
...and so we have.JWarren said:Just my morning ramblings. Add your thoughts as well.
onemsumba
Member
marketing
Saiga 308 21" Barrel
vs.
Saiga 308 16" Barrel
difference = marketing
Saiga .223 21" Barrel
vs.
Saiga .233 16" Barrel
difference = marketing
Saiga 7.62x39 21" Barrel
vs.
Saiga 7.62x39 16" Barrel
difference = marketing
i know your are going to say, oh but you need a 16" barrel for an urban fight and you need a 21" barrel for longer range shots.... I don't buy it. 99.99% of the time i feel you are not going to know the difference. Its more mental than anything.
I like the beware of the man with 1 shotgun....
Duck = dead
goose = dead
turkey = dead
rabit = dead
squirle = dead
White Tail = dead
bad guy in your house at night = dead
locked door = opened
Terminator 2000 = holes in head or body
Saiga 308 21" Barrel
vs.
Saiga 308 16" Barrel
difference = marketing
Saiga .223 21" Barrel
vs.
Saiga .233 16" Barrel
difference = marketing
Saiga 7.62x39 21" Barrel
vs.
Saiga 7.62x39 16" Barrel
difference = marketing
i know your are going to say, oh but you need a 16" barrel for an urban fight and you need a 21" barrel for longer range shots.... I don't buy it. 99.99% of the time i feel you are not going to know the difference. Its more mental than anything.
I like the beware of the man with 1 shotgun....
Duck = dead
goose = dead
turkey = dead
rabit = dead
squirle = dead
White Tail = dead
bad guy in your house at night = dead
locked door = opened
Terminator 2000 = holes in head or body
I think this saying originated back in the days when people had less wealth and spent more time in the great outdoors. It's really easy to imagine country folk from the 50's or earlier who only had one rifle and knew it inside and out. They only had one gun because that's what they could afford.
Nowadays, if you're a gun guy, you likely have 6 or more guns. If you only have one rifle chances are you're either very young or not an active shooter.
Nowadays, if you're a gun guy, you likely have 6 or more guns. If you only have one rifle chances are you're either very young or not an active shooter.
Brian Dale
Member
elmer wrote it more succinctly than I did.
Guys, Its a good discussion, but it seems that it would be helpful for me to clarify what my original intent was. Don't get me wrong, thread drift isn't a bad think if it brings more points. That's the nature of a conversation.
But I don't want others to have to interpret what I was thinking (although those that did seem to do it well.)
There was no real motives behind this. When I am having some coffee before Jenn wakes up and before I turn on the news, I ponder a lot of things.
Yesterday morning, that phrase that I've heard for years popped into my head.
As my thoughts drifted, I thought about some of my own projects that I've considered. One was considering adding a 6.8 SPC AR to my M4 and LR-308. I am one of those that has multiples on the same platform (sort of-- the AR-10 has a longer receiver.)
So my thougths drifted to the notion of multi-calibers on the same platform and any inherent advantages to that. As I considered that concept, I began to consider the differences in ballistics between calibers and weight distributions of different profiles.
This lead me to the conclusion that although it is convienient when firearms share common controls and sights, that convienience likely does not translate into a significant advantage. I mean come on-- how much time does it take to figure out how to flip the safety on a Remington 700?
Beyond that, I thought about when I have shot both the M4-gery and LR-308 free-handed. While I've have many firearms, I've never had two so closely similar and yet in different profiles, and calibers as those two. I thought about how the LR really feels NOTHING like the AR in my hands and I have to use my muscles differently to steady it. The barrel heavily tips the weight balance forward and you immediately notice it when steadying to shoot.
So again, my mental drift lead me to the conclusion that even on the same platform or with otherwise similar characteristics, two firearms can be utterly alien to one another in usage.
From that observational evidence, I concluded that multiple calibers and/or profiles on the same "platform" does not meet the spirit of the premise that started this mental exercise.
As mentioned on this thread, I started this thought process with the willful presumption that the axiom "Beware the man with one rifle" was true. I am not saying that it is true. Rather I started this with a "If this were a truism, then does it apply towards....X"
I believe the origins of that statement are exactly as Art Eatman said in post #8. I tend to hold that view as well. I do believe that there will be firearms that you naturally-- and possibly unconsciously-- develop an affinity with. I've seen that happen in my own life. Through no discernable reason, I have had some that I simply shoot better, have an instinct about the flight characteristics of the bullet, etc. I think that would be want one would call a marrying.
But that does not exclude the fact that I am proficient with other firearms, and can shoot them as well as required in whatever circumstances they are needed. So, this is neither a criticism of those that have multiple firearms or those that have one.
But for those of you that do not have one firearm that you seem to "marry" to as Art mentioned, I truly hope that you do one day. While it detracts nothing from your enjoyment and skill with other arms, you find a certain enjoyment with that one that you just don't find with the others.
For me, that "one" was a 1968 Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. No matter how many firearms that I had, or how many could be used for the same role, I always seemed to unconsciously gravitate back to that one for serious uses.
It was stolen from our hunting camp in Dec. 2006 while we were getting our house renovated and I was away at work. It has never been found, and I doubt I'll ever see it again.
At any rate, I hope that explains my rationale for posting this. It really had no motive, no point to prove, or agenda. I found myself pondering something that I thought-- "Hey, this may be worth posting for discussion." That's all.
Carry on.
-- John
But I don't want others to have to interpret what I was thinking (although those that did seem to do it well.)
There was no real motives behind this. When I am having some coffee before Jenn wakes up and before I turn on the news, I ponder a lot of things.
Yesterday morning, that phrase that I've heard for years popped into my head.
As my thoughts drifted, I thought about some of my own projects that I've considered. One was considering adding a 6.8 SPC AR to my M4 and LR-308. I am one of those that has multiples on the same platform (sort of-- the AR-10 has a longer receiver.)
So my thougths drifted to the notion of multi-calibers on the same platform and any inherent advantages to that. As I considered that concept, I began to consider the differences in ballistics between calibers and weight distributions of different profiles.
This lead me to the conclusion that although it is convienient when firearms share common controls and sights, that convienience likely does not translate into a significant advantage. I mean come on-- how much time does it take to figure out how to flip the safety on a Remington 700?
Beyond that, I thought about when I have shot both the M4-gery and LR-308 free-handed. While I've have many firearms, I've never had two so closely similar and yet in different profiles, and calibers as those two. I thought about how the LR really feels NOTHING like the AR in my hands and I have to use my muscles differently to steady it. The barrel heavily tips the weight balance forward and you immediately notice it when steadying to shoot.
So again, my mental drift lead me to the conclusion that even on the same platform or with otherwise similar characteristics, two firearms can be utterly alien to one another in usage.
From that observational evidence, I concluded that multiple calibers and/or profiles on the same "platform" does not meet the spirit of the premise that started this mental exercise.
As mentioned on this thread, I started this thought process with the willful presumption that the axiom "Beware the man with one rifle" was true. I am not saying that it is true. Rather I started this with a "If this were a truism, then does it apply towards....X"
I believe the origins of that statement are exactly as Art Eatman said in post #8. I tend to hold that view as well. I do believe that there will be firearms that you naturally-- and possibly unconsciously-- develop an affinity with. I've seen that happen in my own life. Through no discernable reason, I have had some that I simply shoot better, have an instinct about the flight characteristics of the bullet, etc. I think that would be want one would call a marrying.
But that does not exclude the fact that I am proficient with other firearms, and can shoot them as well as required in whatever circumstances they are needed. So, this is neither a criticism of those that have multiple firearms or those that have one.
But for those of you that do not have one firearm that you seem to "marry" to as Art mentioned, I truly hope that you do one day. While it detracts nothing from your enjoyment and skill with other arms, you find a certain enjoyment with that one that you just don't find with the others.
For me, that "one" was a 1968 Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. No matter how many firearms that I had, or how many could be used for the same role, I always seemed to unconsciously gravitate back to that one for serious uses.
It was stolen from our hunting camp in Dec. 2006 while we were getting our house renovated and I was away at work. It has never been found, and I doubt I'll ever see it again.
At any rate, I hope that explains my rationale for posting this. It really had no motive, no point to prove, or agenda. I found myself pondering something that I thought-- "Hey, this may be worth posting for discussion." That's all.
Carry on.
-- John
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
One thing I've always tried to do with my rifles is to have the same length of pull on the stocks and make them as near-equal as possible on the triggers. IOW, as much similarity as possible. Sure, the weight and balance will vary, but the more similarity, the simpler one's adjustment to the differences.
Rifleman 173
Member
Having one rifle or gun is like a carpenter showing up with only a hammer to build a complete house. Pity the man with one rifle because he limits himself within the shooting craft. You've got to know, shoot and own different guns to understand their capabilities so that you don't get caught short. Even most guys who don't have a lot of money end up with a couple of different guns to hunt with for food. The guy who limits himself to one rifle does so on his own because he lacks imagination, talent and forethought.
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
JWarren
Really sorry to hear that. I have had some possessions stolen but never a gun. Mony stolen but never a gun. I have let kinfolk use a gun or two while I was stationed overseas only to return and the chamber ruined. That was my first 30-06.
Really sorry to hear that. I have had some possessions stolen but never a gun. Mony stolen but never a gun. I have let kinfolk use a gun or two while I was stationed overseas only to return and the chamber ruined. That was my first 30-06.
My view is that different calibers will have different behavior, specially different in-flight ballistics. So, someone with many calibers in the same platform does not count as "the man with one rifle". Shooting to hit entails more than familiarity with controls.
cracked butt
Member
Beware the man with one golf club....
Yep, sometimes it boils down to affordability.
Knowing the performance of the caliber is another plus.
I own several, mess with them off and on, change rings around, scopes, all kinds of stuff. I think it's just a reason to go shoot them and see if they are "different" or not. Cheaper than buying a new one.
However... my "go to" rifle I just don't mess with it. I know the zeros for the different bullet weights I shoot through it, and depending on what or where I'm shooting, I adjust accordingly.
If you think about an old cowboy with a 30 30. That rifle gets pressed into a lot of different duties. Wolves, rabbits, deer, elk, etc. Long shots short shots. Arcing a bullet 200-300 yds across a gully into a mule deer. With iron sights.
That could definately be a man with one rifle to beware.
Knowing the performance of the caliber is another plus.
I own several, mess with them off and on, change rings around, scopes, all kinds of stuff. I think it's just a reason to go shoot them and see if they are "different" or not. Cheaper than buying a new one.
However... my "go to" rifle I just don't mess with it. I know the zeros for the different bullet weights I shoot through it, and depending on what or where I'm shooting, I adjust accordingly.
If you think about an old cowboy with a 30 30. That rifle gets pressed into a lot of different duties. Wolves, rabbits, deer, elk, etc. Long shots short shots. Arcing a bullet 200-300 yds across a gully into a mule deer. With iron sights.
That could definately be a man with one rifle to beware.
Now I just know that I'm old...
*sigh*
This saying has been around for years. Someone above already said it-"back in the day" when most folks could only afford ONE RIFLE.
Geez, are we so spoiled (or young?) that we forget our history so quickly? Doesn't anyone else remember their dad having ONE SHOT GUN, ONE DEER RIFLE, ONE PISTOL, AND A .22 SINGLE SHOT? That was it.
The scoffing at the thought of these "Elmer Fudds" as they've been called taking out that "one rifle" ONCE A YEAR is really unfair and more than a bit exagerated.
Most of these guys could shoot the pants off of most of the people on this forum using iron sights and over the counter ammo. How dare I say that? I've seen it.
Doesn't anyone remember that we used to be known as a NATION OF RIFLEMEN? It had NOTHING to do with HOW MANY guns we had. It had everything to do with our MARKSMANSHIP. Yea-think Alvin York and guys like that who could kill out to 700-800 yards with iron sights using 'Kentucky' windage.
Man some of the comments just smack of disrespect...
Ok-rant off...
I'm going fishing...
Sorry, long day
*sigh*
This saying has been around for years. Someone above already said it-"back in the day" when most folks could only afford ONE RIFLE.
Geez, are we so spoiled (or young?) that we forget our history so quickly? Doesn't anyone else remember their dad having ONE SHOT GUN, ONE DEER RIFLE, ONE PISTOL, AND A .22 SINGLE SHOT? That was it.
The scoffing at the thought of these "Elmer Fudds" as they've been called taking out that "one rifle" ONCE A YEAR is really unfair and more than a bit exagerated.
Most of these guys could shoot the pants off of most of the people on this forum using iron sights and over the counter ammo. How dare I say that? I've seen it.
Doesn't anyone remember that we used to be known as a NATION OF RIFLEMEN? It had NOTHING to do with HOW MANY guns we had. It had everything to do with our MARKSMANSHIP. Yea-think Alvin York and guys like that who could kill out to 700-800 yards with iron sights using 'Kentucky' windage.
Man some of the comments just smack of disrespect...
Ok-rant off...
I'm going fishing...
Sorry, long day
35 Whelen
Member
Exactly. The "One man, one rifle." adage is from years ago. LONG before everyone "needed" so many rifles. My grandparents were frugal people, and had they been big game hunters, I KNOW they'd have owned only one rifle! I have had the privelege of reading my fathers old hunting books from the 40's-60's. In my opinion, people in those days were more hunters, and less gun-nuts. (And I say that as a true gun nut)
But think about it; what can't be killed in North America with a 30-06? Or a .270? Really, why does a typical hunter need more than one rifle? For a hunter hunting the continental U.S., you can easily get by with one rifle. And when you own one rifle, you become accustomed to it.
You know it idiosyncrasies, you know the trajectory of the bullets, you when you've taken up all but 1/4 lb. of the trigger pull, you know about how far that mule deer is away because you've had your crosshairs on many like him.
Todays hunters and riflemen are a marketers dream. Just look at all the crap many have hanging off their rifles...especially the tacticool rifles. People flock to the latest Rosanne Barr shaped ultra short magnum cartridge because the rifle action is 1/4" shorter which means the rifle weighs 4 ounces less (Then they counter the weight savings by installing some gargantuan 4-14X scope on it)
And as I say this, I am as guilty as the next guy. I own or have owned centerfire rifles in bullet diameter .22, .24, .25, .26, .27, .28, .30., .31, .32, .33, .35, .375, & .45. and in many cases more than one cartridge of a given caliber! It's ridiculous!
But, I have gone through "one rifle" phases. For several years, it was a Ruger 77V chambered in 220 Swift. I shot it so much and killed so much game with it, that shooting it became second nature. After that was a 257 Ackley that I built. Again, used it and used it and used it until I knew precisely when the sear was about to break. Now adays I hunt everything but elk with either an old Ruger 77 in 280 or my Mauser Scout Rifle in 308. Period.
So, does that make me a "Two rifle man"?
35W
Magnuumpwr
Member
Believe it or not these three guns have pretty much the same position for everything, but alas, they are all very different in their own special ways.
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