Bewildering response

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cambeul41

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I teach college level English in Detroit. A student wrote an essay in which she supported the idea of women being armed for personal defense; so, when I returned her paper today, I also gave her a short list of pro-gun and Second Amendment web sites and a copy of Oleg’s “Two ways…” poster of Betty.

When I asked her in which of the two ways a woman should respond to being attacked, she pointed at the cowering, terrified Betty. I rephrased my question. “How would her husband or boy friend want her to respond to being attacked?” She again pointed to the terrified Betty.

I am sure that she could tell from my expression that I thought that her response was wrong. “But why,” she asked,” “would her husband or boyfriend want her to point a gun at him?”

“Why would he give her cause to fear him? If he were not there to protect her, what would he want her to do if attacked?”

This time she pointed to the pistol- using Betty. That is progress, I suppose, but I am still bothered by the fact that a student who had just received a good grade on a pro-2A essay would indicate that the “correct” way to react to an attack is to cower from it.

Part of the problem might be a society in which husbands, boyfriends, and babies’ daddies are frequently the attackers. (I did have a student once say, “No man had better beat me like that – unless we are married!”) And part of the problem may be that because “teacher types” cannot be seen as believing in the defensive use of guns.

I have a file on my hard drive labeled “CCW CD” which is a continuously evolving collection of essays and pictures that I transfer to CDs to give to people who are curious or have expressed a need to defend themselves. This young lady will get a copy. Although she is still too young to carry, she is not too young to inform and not too young to have a long gun in the home.
 
Someone, maybe JR, commented that the reason that so many minority churches (and the society in general) seems to be against CCW is that a large percentage of the population is related to someone, or knows someone, who may end up being on the wrong end of a CCW piece.
 
“But why,” she asked,” “would her husband or boyfriend want her to point a gun at him?”

It seems I don't understand this. Even if she assumes that the husband/boyfriend is the attacker (which is a startling assumption to me), then why would she assume that the attackers wishes would take precendence over her own? Maybe my thinking is too independant to grasp this mindset?
 
might she have been abused in the past? physically, sexually, and or emotionally? i have seen some of this mindset in my Girlfriend... who has been abused all three ways in her past...

been with her 15 years now, and she is finally coming around to understand 2 things of MAJIOR importance...

#1 - I will never abuse her in ANY way, and...

#2 - she has to take her own wellbeing as seriously as I takr her wellbeing...

she starts ccw class soon, and has all but stolen my Smitty 637...
 
This is part of what bewilders me.

But the question was, “How would her husband or boy friend want her to respond to being attacked?” The question was not, "How should you respond to an attack, even if it is by a BF or husband?"

The discussion did end with her requesting further info and her expressed determination to get her CCW / CPL when she was eligible.
 
In an age where we're constantly bombarded with the idea that our own wants and needs are somehow subordinate to those of 'our fellow man', I'm not surprised at all.
:barf:
 
it's entirely possible that as we speak, she's ranting on her blog somewhere about how all college professors are liberal wackos and you can't tell them what you think or they'll give you bad grades.

i.e. maybe she knows the real right answer and was just trying to figure out what you wanted to hear. college students are prone to that, you know
 
cambeul41

I teach college level English in Detroit. A student wrote an essay in which she supported the idea of women being armed for personal defense; so, when I returned her paper today, I also gave her a short list of pro-gun and Second Amendment web sites and a copy of Oleg’s “Two ways…” poster of Betty.

When I asked her in which of the two ways a woman should respond to being attacked, she pointed at the cowering, terrified Betty. I rephrased my question. “How would her husband or boy friend want her to respond to being attacked?” She again pointed to the terrified Betty.

I am sure that she could tell from my expression that I thought that her response was wrong. “But why,” she asked,” “would her husband or boyfriend want her to point a gun at him?”

Those comments / reactions of hers - your location - I'm going to guess she was muslim / lives somewhere near Hamtramck. Am I correct?
 
Responses

taliv
Your first comment may be on target,
your second I am sure is dead on.

Standing Wolf
Whenever I think I have become immune to shock, I get hit with something else to which I can only say, “Oh, my God!”

Rayra
Black and Christian. I would, though, welcome such a discussion with Muslims – including women. I have had Muslim women students from a number of countries including Yemen -- and one raised in Saudi Arabia – who have talked with me quite freely. I still am a bit surprised by the Yemeni girl, properly draped from head to foot, who wanted to discuss body piercings.
 
Even if she assumes that the husband/boyfriend is the attacker (which is a startling assumption to me),

I don't think it should be a surprise. All the statistics that I have ever read seem to indicate that a woman is many times more likely to be beaten/killed by a husband/boyfriend than by a stranger.
 
“But why,” she asked,” “would her husband or boyfriend want her to point a gun at him?”
This type of world view is alien to me.

I remember a debate I had once with a flaming liberal who thought anyone accused - not convicted, not tried, just accused - of domestic abuse ought to be banned from owning guns - for life.

Well into the debate, I was asked "Do you think a wife-beater should have a gun? Well? Do you?

I responded with:

"A wife beater shouldn't have a wife, but if he's married, she's the one who clearly needs a gun!"

Response was a wide-eyed "deer in the headlights" look tinged with horror . . . :banghead:
 
cambeul41:
If you're teaching at WCCC, you're already dealing with a community that has been bred, weaned, and nurtured on the idea that they were, are, and always will be victims. That would explain her reaction to your question. However, being as how the younger generation seems to be showing a glimmer of comprehension at how they've been lied to, I take this incident as a reason to be hopeful. Self worth and self-defense used to be nearly synonymous before the culture of victimhood permeated our society.

Perhaps you should direct her to www.blackmanwithagun.com or suggest she read about Dr. Ossian Sweet http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/sweet/sweetaccount.HTM

so as to understand with the positive morality of self-defense, and the origins of gun control.
 
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HankB

I agree.

Sometimes I suggest to the women in my classes that one way they can test the men in their lives is to tell them – whether it is true or not – that they intend to get a gun and a license to carry. If a man objects to a woman’s being armed, she should take into consideration the reasons he wants her to be defenseless. If the men in the class object to the idea of armed women, I ask them what they do that puts them in danger from such women.

ebd10

Yes, I am teaching at WCCC, and I am seeing a change in perceptions.

Black man with a Gun is one of the sites, and books, that I referred her to. I am going to have to give the Sweet trials some study. Thank you.
 
Holy @#*%! Maybe I need to make posters explaining that personal integrity and safety take precedence over conjugal rights...
 
Egg, I was aware that most women who are beaten are victims of husbands or boyfriends. What startled me was the seeming acceptance as fact that anybody she is involved with will beat her. I really hope I am misunderstanding the context or something. We have enough victims already, we sure don't need to teach women that victim status is inevitable.
 
"Black and Christian."

Weird. Or not so very. Sadly some cultures or groups within some cultures really do seem to accept that kind of interspousal physically abuse.
 
TheEgg

I don't think it should be a surprise. All the statistics that I have ever read seem to indicate that a woman is many times more likely to be beaten/killed by a husband/boyfriend than by a stranger.
But that's sort of a meaningless statistic, in that it implies a Cause and Effect nature to it. I mean WHO ELSE would they be spending the majority of their time with? Who else would they be in repeated contact with.
To put it another way - what percentage of the male population do they come into contact with? Imean if they spend 50-80% of their time with a single individual, their "likelihood" is vastly increased no matter what the quality of their relationship is.

Just like the Brady / VPC's specious 'statistical proof' that having a gun in the home means you'll get shot.

Or the old rubric about 'most automobile accidents happen within a short distance from home' - we duh. 95% of the population doesn't even travel beyond that range, so of course the majority of accidents happen within it.


/just pointing out how some 'generally accepted statistics' don't 'prove' what they appear to.
 
If this young woman has been conditioned to submit to violence from "family" by observing/being subjected to violence to wives/girlfriends/daughters then it would be no surprise that her automatic response would be that way.

Sad
 
She is just showing the learned response that has been given to her throughout her life.

She probably wrote the essay that she did because at some point in your class, you probably expressed some type of pro-gun, pro-2nd amendment expression that she picked up on and knew that if her essay was pro that she would get a good grade.

When you gave her the pictures, she reverted back to her taught responses but sounds as if she had at least opened her mind on the idea of self defense.

Good job on promoting thought in your students.
 
maybe she bought the paper online, and really didn't realize it was progun.
 
Cambeul41,

If I send you a 100 blank CDs, can you ship one back to me with your essay/article collection? And if you don't mind, I'd like to duplicate that and hand them out as you do.

Good deeds should be rewarded. Great deeds should be emulated.
 
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