Beyond Angry

[Zedicus]

The detective just told you that you and your guns are the problem, not the bad guy who stole your property. He also told you that he is not interested in recovering your stolen property.

Why should you cooperate further?

I would have terminated the interview, and gone down the hall to visit his boss, and then his boss, and the mayor, until that detective offered an apology and demonstrated zeal for finding the thief.

+1

File a Formal Complaint ASAP.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

I have rattled off a draft that I will edit and send tonight. I'll post it here to see what you guys think.

In retrospect, I think the end comes off rather harsh given the circumstances but it does highlight exactly how I/we feel about this situation.

Sir,

I am writing in complaint in the most formal matter than I can muster (since I cannot locate any other means of complain) regarding the Coatesville Police Department, one detective in particular, regarding a case from Wednesday, 3rd January of this year.
My name is Robert Drendall. I am a Coatesville resident – a pointedly law abiding one, I might add – since moving here from Delaware in August of last year. On 3rd January of this year, two firearms were stolen from my residence, both of them legally owned both of them legally purchased in Pennsylvania and summarily run through the State Police “it's not a registration program” registration program. I immediately reported this matter to your police department, and was met at the scene (my apartment) by one officer Knapp (his rank escapes me, though I seem to recall it was mentioned that he was a Corporal). Mr. Knapp was very professional, very courteous, and down to earth. I should stress that if anything he should be commended for his work regarding this case.
That evening, I received a telephone call from the station requesting that I and my girlfriend (I shan't delve too deeply into the details of the case at this point, nor my personal life) appear for an interview with one detective Quinn. My girlfriend could not return to Coatesville, having to work in Delaware until the wee hours of the morning. I reported to the police station for my interview, and was met with the most unprofessional and condescending treatment I have ever experienced in the state of Pennsylvania.

Detective Quinn wasted no time during our interview grilling me about the remainder of my (admittedly modest) firearm collection, a grand total of two rifles, two shotguns, and two pistols. Detective Quinn made it very apparent through his statements as well as tone that he had absolutely no interest in recovering my stolen property and ending the safety hazard it presents while in the hands of a thieving criminal; Rather, he made it abundantly clear that he intended to paint me as the “bad guy,” in my humble opinion singling me out because I have the audacity, in his eyes, to remain a lawful gun owner anywhere in his vicinity, and a holder of a Pennsylvania concealed carry permit besides.

While asking me very few questions about the suspected perpetrator of this crime, who I have identified to the best of my ability, provided a phone number and two photographs of his face, detective Quinn instead thought it necessary to interrogate me about my firearms instead, asking such loaded questions as, “Why do you need these guns?”

When I replied for self defense and target shooting, Quinn could not restrain himself, evidently, and flatly informed me that “I don't need these guns for target shooting.” Upon asking why I had an interest in firearms I mentioned a previous boss who got me started with shooting sports and instruction, and who was also involved in Cowboy Action shooting matches in Delaware and elsewhere. Ignoring the first half of my answer because it did not suit him, Quinn again felt the need to interject with his personal opinion and inform me “You do not use these weapons for cowboy action shooting,” tantamount to calling me a liar. I never said I did any such thing; I said that my boss did, and this got me interested in firearms as a whole.
Detective Quinn also berated me for having quote-unquote “high capacity magazines,” at one point pointedly asking me “what are you doing with high capacity magazines,” when referring to the factory 17 round magazines that came with one of the pistols that was stolen from me. I could only answer with the truth: I'm not “doing” anything with them, and the pistol in question has no “low capacity” 10 round magazines available for it since it is, quite literally, brand new on the marketplace. It is also of very important note that the federal “assault weapons ban” prohibiting magazines over ten rounds expired some years ago, and neither Pennsylvania nor the city of Coatesville have any laws on the books of which I am aware that prohibit such items. To wit, detective Quinn clearly thought that my ownership of something he did not personally approve of is “suspect,” which is grossly unprofessional and insulting besides.
I was already victimized of a crime once. I refuse to be victimized again by the opinions and invective of your police force. I am not a criminal and I am not afraid to step forward to express this fact. While I am hesitant to complain before my case is resolved (fearing some sort of personal retribution from detective Quinn himself) I cannot turn a blind eye to the crass unprofessionalism that was displayed to me on this night.

Detective Quinn, just as every other member of the Coatesville Police Force, has a job to do – And it needs to be made clear to him in no uncertain terms that as a public servant who is not elected or otherwise accountable to the citizens of his jurisdiction he must leave his political and personal opinions at home as soon as he puts on his badge. It needs to be expressed to detective Quinn in no uncertain terms that his anti-gun and anti-self defense rhetoric are neither necessary, appreciated, or appropriate on the job. It needs to be driven home in no uncertain terms to detective Quinn that while it is quite apparent he would desire that no one own a firearm for their own protection except him and possibly the rest of his police force, it is not his place to try to bully, threaten, or otherwise try to force this view upon anyone from his position. If I acted in such a way at my job I would be fired on the spot. I fail to see how detective Quinn's ego should render him immune the concept of professionalism and decency, and I will not stand to be insulted, harassed, or threatened in such a way as detective Quinn felt the need to subject me to on the night of the 3rd of January.

Sincerely,

(name and address removed)

Edit: This letter is intended to be addressed to our interim police chief. His information is here.

 

[captaincaveman]

Looks good to me. I hope it works out for you. I don't see the end as being harsh at all, just very true

Josh

 

[G36-UK]

A good letter. I wish I could write them as well as that, as I've got a few bones to pick with a few papers here.

Seriously though, what that "officer" did, past incidents or no, was inappropriate and (IMHO) unprofessional.

I hope you get a resolution that will sort this out.

 

[Nitrogen]

It's too harsh, and too emotional.

As Joe Friday said, "Just the facts, sir."

Here's how i'd have worded your first paragraph:

I am writing to lodge a formal complaint regarding the Coatesville Police Department, one detective in particular, regarding a case from Wednesday, 3rd January of this year.
My name is Robert Drendall. I am a Coatesville resident since moving here from Delaware in August of last year. On 3rd January of this year, two firearms were stolen from my residence, both of them legally owned both of them legally purchased in Pennsylvania and summarily run through the State Police. I immediately reported this matter to your police department, and was met at the scene (my apartment) by one officer Knapp (his rank escapes me, though I seem to recall it was mentioned that he was a Corporal). Mr. Knapp was very professional, very courteous, and down to earth. I should stress that if anything he should be commended for his work regarding this case.
That evening, I received a telephone call from the station requesting that I and my girlfriend appear for an interview with one detective Quinn. My girlfriend could not return to Coatesville, having to work in Delaware until the wee hours of the morning. I reported to the police station for my interview, and was met with the most unprofessional and condescending treatment I have ever experienced in the state of Pennsylvania.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I am sorry this happened to you.

Your letter gets too bogged down into details, and appears a bit defensive because of it. Simply remove the detailed conversation. Mention that instead of investigating the crime itself, you (the law abiding citizen) had become the suspect in the investigation, and the Detective's expressed opinions made it clear he didn't approve of the lawful private ownership of arms.

Request a re-interview with another Detective more willing to investigate the crime (if you desire it), and a meeting with the Police Chief to further discuss your original interview (again, if you desire it). Leave the details out at this point, and discuss them in person. Again, don't go on the defense. In person, point out later that the Detective's questions had no bearing on the crime committed. The firearms possessed are quite legal, and you have no need to defend their ownership. Same with the magazines, the carry permit, whatever else. Simply respond by asking what makes them authorities on what is an appropriate gun to own and what is not. The law permits it, you are in lawful possession, and that is sufficient reason for their investigation.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

I think my problem is that over many years of having to wrangle with this sort of thing I fear leaving details out rather than putting too many in. When it degenerates into lawyering back and forth about what was actually said I prefer to document too much instead of too little. However, you guys may be right on the rest of the details.

Letter's been sent with edits. Did you know it costs me five dollars and sixty one cents to send a registered letter literally right down the street?

 

[Speer]

Keep us informed, dude.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Did I complain too soon? Detective Quinn calls with some stern language suggesting that I contact my (now ex-) girlfriend, lest her name shortly appear on a warrant and they apprehend her at work.

Gears are turning. I hope they're turning in the right direction.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Ask to speak with the Police Chief, as I mentioned before, and request another Detective. Don't assume Det. Quinn read your letter, but he might have. Who did you address it to?

 

[Zero_DgZ]

I addressed it to the police chief, who probably won't read it for another couple of days and it'll take a while for the excriment to flow downhill, if it does at all.

Again, I'm torn between the timeliness of it (not to pull an "Oh, by the way, I don't like this detective" when all is said and done) and the boys-in-the-back-room rule (wherein when you complain about your food the boys in the back room will reheat it in the microwave, spit in it, and then give it back to you).

 

[BullfrogKen]

Well, give him your ex-girlfriend's contact info, and encourage him to contact her. Tell him you've severed your relationship, point out how you have no ability to compell her to do anything, and aren't in the courier business. You just handle your business and side of the issue professionally, and make it clear you expect them to do the same.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

That's what I'm doing.

I've been working on security measures for my appartment at the moment. It's actually kind of fun, in a Tim Allen sort of way. The door ought to resist all but very detemined kick-in attempts at this point. Got a shiny new stack on safe and I've been annoying the neighbors by drilling to bolt it to my existing one... This one's for any other stealables (small electronics) until my lease is up and I get a chance to move out of this hole in the wall. If I can afford it...

Rekeying the lock tomorrow. Working at a hardware store pays off!

 

[PennsyPlinker]

As another PA resident, I would be inclined to ask Detective Quinn, why, if the cops are all we need, your guns were even stolen in the first place? After all, he should have been there waiting to nab the perpetrator as soon as the crime was committed, right? :banghead:

 

[Tokugawa]

I wonder what Detective Quinn knows about your girl friend that you don't?
Not trying to defend him or shove a stick in your eye, it is a serious question.
Did he have any ID on her to run a background check?
How many other slimeball friends does she have?
Are you really sure she had to "work", the night you were interogated?
Sorry-there ain't no one more suspicious than a damn yankee!

 

[BullfrogKen]

Tokugawa said: I wonder what Detective Quinn knows about your girl friend that you don't?
Not trying to defend him or shove a stick in your eye, it is a serious question.

I don't think he knows much of anything, especially nothing substantial. He probably has suspicions. But if he had anything concrete, he wouldn't be calling her boyfriend, or ex-boyfriend as it is now, and threaten to bring her in. He'd simply go do it, or have it done.

Truthfully, the immediate jump to a heavy-handed kind of a tactic is the work of an amatuer, or one that has zero interpersonal skills. An experienced investigator with good skills doesn't need to resort to that, especially right off the bat. A simple, we need to talk, coming from a detective is enough to motivate most people to want to clear themselves from the spotlight.


I had a call come from a Detective to the house this week that wanted to use our range. My wife got the initial call, and was scared to death we had an officer calling to want to talk to me.

 

[thexrayboy]

The question about why you have a certain gun and why it holds 17 rounds and why you own a storm carbine etc. etc. is just gun grabbin elitist B.S.
If the low life your should be ex GF let in had stolen say 2 Rolex watches do you think you would have gotten as much grief from the detective, or say it was 2 laptop pc's or two digital cameras. No. He would have simply taken down the info and done his job. But NOOOOOO....... it was guns that were taken and therefore he got a real jones to give you grief for actually owning a gun. That detective needs a kick in the Ash on the way out the door to his new job, preferably at the city dump. I say complain to the highest level about his condescending elitist attitude. Make sure he learns that citizens are not his lessers to be talked down to.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Zero_DgZ

Any update for us on this?

Got your security upgrades in place?

How's it going with your friends in the PD?

Inquiring minds wanna know . . .

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Updates from the life of Zero:

Installed a new gun safe. Discovered that you can carry a 14 gun sized one home on the roof of a Saturn.

Reinforced my door. Waiting on my brother in law to make a steel one (and frame) fall off the truck. No money for electronic security at the moment, but planning on some net-enabled cameras soon.

Got rear ended by a cop tonight (!) on a totally unrelated note. His fault; Using his lights to run a red light he didn't feel like waiting for instead of paying attention to who he would slam into if he did. I have no luck with police.

(Note: In the battle between the back of a Saturn and the front of a Crown Vic, the Saturn won. Seriously.)

I haven't heard a peep from the detective or anyone else from his department. My registered mail receipt says that my letter showed up on Monday.

 

[kbheiner7]

I don't hold my tongue well in situations like that. I would have told the second officer off royally.

 

[xd9fan]

sure hope it never gets to the point in america that every gun owner needs legal representation.....

 

[Orthonym]

Ah, xd9, I think we slid off that slippery slope into free-fall years ago.

Judging from my own experience, anybody who feels like going for a walk after dark in his own neighborhood in some places needs a lawyer on retainer, and on speed-dial on his cell phone. One of the reasons I generally do not vote Republican. The Republicans where I live tend to be of the State-sucking Police-Republican variety. True to their original nature, when you think about it. They were the original big-government party.

I generally vote Libertarian (registered as such) because I am in favor of

Small government.

Small farms.

Small business, and

Small arms.


That is, I am a *real* Democrat, not one of those New York Bolshevik folks who run that party these days.

 

[Orthonym]

Oh, Parenthetically:

The proudest boast I can make about my family is that, as far as I know, every one of my Great-Grandfathers enlisted, and did everything he could to kill Republicans where ever he saw them, in an organized manner. That is, they killed just as many people as they could, who were wearing the uniform of the United States Army!

P.S., I've been reading "Albion's Seed" lately, which reading has given me some understanding about why my ancestors joined up, (*not* to preserve slavery, but to kill damyankees) and why I dislike the DYs to this very day.

Sincerely, Orthonym, Scots-Irish grumpy person.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Got rear ended by a cop tonight (!) on a totally unrelated note. His fault; Using his lights to run a red light he didn't feel like waiting for instead of paying attention to who he would slam into if he did. I have no luck with police.

Coincidentally, another thing I've seen the SJPD do (though without the collision), even though I don't go there that often.

Anyway, the stars seemed aligned against you lately, but considering statistics and cosmic fate it should all even out with repeated good news, so please keep us updated. If they keep ignoring you, just keep asking, even if it is mostly for your own personal amusement... and for the curiosity of a number of people on THR.

 

[tinygnat219]

2 things that really made me scratch my head here, this isn't criticism, just being a Hindsight Analyst working on 2nd Hand information:

I'm surprised you went into the police station to meet with the detective without an attorney present. This probably should have been your first move.
Said attorney could have ended the interview when the tones went south. You could have asked him if any progress had been made on catching the criminal, and then handed over a copy of the evidence you gave the first guy. I am in agreement with everyone else so far on the forum, talk to this guy's supervisor and make a formal complaint.

Your GF lets people off of MySpace into your apartment? Without your permission? :banghead: time to get a new GF.

Seriously, I hope you can get this worked out and your guns returned soonest. Good luck to you in your case!