Gun store tried to sell me a stolen gun.

[OneShot]

What an experiance!~ I went to a local shop and purchased a used Smith model 686, CHP, Commemerative model.357. I was wondering at the time why a former officer would sell such a nice gun, I questioned this to the clerk and was told "I don't know, it just came in" So I filled out the paperwork and put down a deposit.

I get a call yesterday, from the seller (the gun belonged to a clerk at the store it turns out) telling me that I had a problem, and that the gun was stolen!!

I had a problem? NO he had a problem. I promptly went down to the store and demanded to see the owner of the gun. He gave me some BS excuse about it being just a clerical error and gave me the detectives name and number. At this point I was pissed and told him I wanted to cancel the sale. He replied that I could but he would not be able to refund my background check fee of $31. I very firmly told him that it was not my fault that the sale was being cancelled because he had tried to pawn off a stolen gun to me.

Needless to say I will not be doing business with this shop again. Should I contact the owner of the shop and make sure that he is aware of what transpired? Should I also contact the detective and let him know I cancelled the sale?---Oneshot

 

[glockten]

If you haven't taken possession of that revolver yet, I see no reason to contact the detective. I would certainly talk to the owner; for a foul-up like that, he should refund the background check fee.

 

[Sisco]

I would definately contact the shop owner. Seems to me you should be entitled to a full refund, it was their fault not yours.
I gotta ask, is charging for a background check just a California thing? I'm guessing that if they charge that much there is more involved than a simple call to NCIS.

 

[dinosaur]

$31? The instant check here is $5, $3 to the state & $2 to the dealer I believe. 5 minutes tops so far in my experience and I`ve bought a lot of guns.

Be that as it may, they should refund your money or credit you for another purchase if you`re willing to accept that. Bad enough they screwed up, now they`re going to compound it? Nonsense and bad business.

 

[gryphon]

I agree with Sisco, I've never heard of a charge for a background check before.

The more I hear/deal with CA, the more it reinforces the fact that I do not like it there.

 

[Sheslinger]

Our background check is typically $10, sometimes $5 here, so $31 seems insane to me.

Yes, I would let the owner know and see what his/her reaction is.

Let us know what the owner says if you do.
Sheslinger

 

[Old Fuff]

Having been in the business I can explain …..

In some places there is a close relationship between gun retailers and the local police. Dealers can and do call in the serial number of used guns they are about to buy for a check to see if it was stolen, prior to they’re purchasing it. This procedure protects both the dealer and his potential customer when he sells the gun.

In other communities the police are “too busy†and refuse too do this service. This leaves the dealer out on a limb because he has no way to know in advance if the gun was stolen or not. I have no idea how things work where you live.

But in any case, you should get a full refund, including the fee for the background check. The amount seems excessive. Where I live (Arizona) the check is free.

I would certainly talk to the shop’s owner just to be sure he gets your side of the story, since it appears some of his own employees are involved. In addition I see no reason not to talk to the detective because you have no idea what story he might have been told. If you end up believing something very, very wrong is going on I’d contact the ATF&E. If you don’t protect yourself in this matter someone else might leave you holding the bag.

 

[JDSlack]

Here in Florida they charge $5, set by the state, I think.

I WOULD contact the owner, it may be that his/her staff may be involved in activities that could cost their FFL or worse. As for contacting the detective I'm 50/50. Might be could to call and let them know what almost transpired, in case the staff of the shop is involved in something shady. On the other hand, if you just want to stay out of it...

Shops like that piss me off, but as far as I know there is no way for them to check to see if a gun they buy is stolen, but their should be. In Florida pawnshops have to send slips describing every item they take in to the local PD or SO, but gunshops don't. Something along the lines of the background check they do on you when you buy a gun shouldn't be hard to set up. Of course it would probably end up costing the honest folks more $$.

 

[clem]

If it is allowed by the agency, it takes a couple of minutes to run a serial number through NCIC.

 

[Corelogik]

I would contact the owner, the detective, Calif. DOJ, and the ATF.

Why?

This is why;
Owner:
Owner may legitimately not know what some of his employees are doing and deserves the opportunity to rectify the situation.

Detective:
Detective may want/need to collect all history of this firearm, and whether you like it or not, you are now part of it's history. Also would probably want to know of possible/probable shady deals going on in this shop.

California D.O.J. / BATFE:
California D.R.O.S. fee (Background check fee) is only $14.00 (I am 100% positive of this as I have bought 3 handguns in the last 3 months from 2 different dealers and paid the same fee each time.)
CA. DOJ and ATF would probably be interested to know that this dealer is charging bogus fee's. Also would probably want to know of possible/probable shady deals going on in this shop.

Buying and owning guns in the PRK is tough enough without someone like this make it harder. I personally take no chances when it comes to my weapons. If I have any doubt about the origin of any weapon I take the serial # to my local sheriff dept. and have them run it, or I don't buy it.

 

[t driver]

I'm not from CA, but I agree with corelogik 100%. Don't hesitate. Something going on there definitely doesn't sound right.

 

[DWS1117]

Call everyone of authority you can. You don't want something that you didn't do come back to bite your butt.

As for a background check fee, what's that? Unless they are all doing something wrong, I have never been charged a fee for a backgound check by any of the dealers that I use.

 

[cool45auto]

Oh yeah, I'd yell about that for a while.

 

[Sisco]

Around here the charge for background check is $0.00
If a dealer said he was going to charge me I would question it.

 

[Jason Demond]

The BG checks don't cost anything here either.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If it were me, I'd send the gun shop a certified letter demanding a full refund of all my expenses to date—including the certified letter—within ten days, and let the owner know failure to do so will result in legal action.

I don't ever pick up the tab for criminals and/or incompetents.

 

[xsquid]

Oneshot - same neck of the woods as you, I'd like to know the name of the store for future reference.

 

[EOD Guy]

California D.O.J. / BATFE:
California D.R.O.S. fee (Background check fee) is only $14.00 (I am 100% positive of this as I have bought 3 handguns in the last 3 months from 2 different dealers and paid the same fee each time.)
CA. DOJ and ATF would probably be interested to know that this dealer is charging bogus fee's. Also would probably want to know of possible/probable shady deals going on in this shop.

While the DROS fee may only be $14.00, the dealer is also required to collect a $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee for a total of $20.00. Few, if any, reputable dealers should charge any additional fees although they are allowed to as long as they clearly show them as "dealer fees" and do not represent them as state fees.

 

[Pilgrim]

Required fees to be charged by a dealer in a firearms transaction. From DOJ's website dealer FAQs.

What fees can I charge in addition to the DROS?

In addition to the State's $14 DROS fee, you must also charge a $1 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, you may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a State fee.

(PC sections 12071(b)(11), (12))

 

[WonderNine]

They tried to sell you a stolen gun and then won't refund your background check fee???? Insane! I'd talk to the owner A.S.A.P. !!!

I'd be courteous at first, but if he wants to be an a$$ and keep the money I'd tell them a thing or two. And I'd think up a few things to do to let everyone know far and wide what transpired!

 

[OEF_VET]

Regarding the (very high) fee charged to do the background check, this is what the ATF has to say about it on their website:

(P8) Is there a charge for NICS checks? [Back]

The FBI does not charge a fee for conducting NICS checks. However, states that act as points of contact for NICS checks may charge a fee consistent with state law.


Here in TN it's around $10 I believe, although the last gun I bought, I think it may have been as high as $14.

I (unknowingly) bought a stolen gun from a pawn shop here a few years back. I didn't find out until the Logan County (KY) Sheriff's Dept. came to post looking for me and the gun. Apparently the store I'd bought the gun at didn't do a very good check on it, which they said they did. I pawned the gun for a couple weeks about a year after I bought it, and about 3 months later, the Deputies came looking for it. Luckily for me, it had been stolen from a city in KY that I'd never been to, while I was in OK for Basic Training, so it was fairly obvious I had no connection to the theft. I had to forfiet the gun to the Deputies, who then went to see the pawn shop for a nice conversation. I immediately went to the JAG office to find out what I could do to recover my money. The JAG attorney called the pawnshop, who offered me a store credit for the purchase price, but they stopped selling guns to soldiers from post who didn't have an actual TN address. I went to the store, and after about 45 minutes of debating the fact that I bought a gun because I wanted a gun, not another TV or some junk jewelry, they finally gave me the cash back. The cash went towards a Ruger P89DC at another shop up the road. That time, I verified that they did the police check!

Sorry for the long-windednesss, just recounting my story.

Frank

 

[OneShot]

They ended up agreeing to refund my background/transfer fees after much debate today. It is normal when doing a private party transfer here to impose extra fees. I usually have to pay between $25 and $30 in the Bay Area to buy a PPT gun. I simply stated that the cancellation of the sale was due to their error and not mine.

I do believe that I am going to contact the detective because as someone stated , I am now a part of the guns history. The clerk stated over and over again that he had paperwork from purchasing the gun but has "lost It"

After speaking with the owner of the shop, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. I believe that he will shortly be unemployed.--Oneshot

 

[Kharn]

Extra fees really, really cheese me off. In MD, its $10 to the state for a regulated weapon (pistol or assault rifle), the kitchen table dealer I use near UDel charges the exact fee, but the retail dealers in my home county charge $20 and only reveal that they pocket $10 when pressed for it. When I paid for my Ruger MkII a few weeks ago at the retail dealer, the salesman hit me with the $20 fee, the conversation went like this: (I was writing out my check, and had the pen touching the signature line)
Me: "Who is this $20 fee to?"
Salesman: "It goes to the state"
"Really?"
"Yes, mandated fee for the background check"
"Isnt it $10? Thats all I get charged when I use other dealers"
"Uhhhh, yeah, $10 for the state, $10 for us for doing the extra paperwork"
"Alright. (I hope he caught that I didnt like the BS from the tone of my voice)" and I signed the check. If I was buying something I had a chance of seeing for sale again in MD (MkIIs arent legal for sale if made after 12/31/02 so most dealers dont bother to stock any MkIIs), I would have just walked out and said 'Sorry, no sale', but I really wanted that pistol.

Kharn

 

[Pendragon]

I would go to the gun store and politely talk to the owner and tell him that you want your $31 back.

Tell him that it is his cheapest and best option.
Tell him that if he refuses, you will do three things:

1. Go to the police station and file a criminal fraud complaint.
You paid the $31 fee - which included a "dealer fee" or "profit" as part of a "contract" to purchase a firearm. Because the sale did not happen, he violated the implied contract and in the eyes of the courts, he could be viewed as comitting fraud because it is possible (however unlikely) that he knew the sale could not commence. Even if it was impossible for him to know the gun was stolen, the most basic principle of business law is that the customer has a right to get what he paid for.

2. You will file a civil suit in small claims court alleging fraud, negligence and possibly defamation. He has caused you to become entangled in a stolen gun situation through his ignorance, negligence or inaction and has profited from you while all you have recieved is exposure to legal problems (even it is merely talking to the cops - you should not have had to do that).

3. You will go to the media with the sad story of how the irresponsible gun store had a stolen gun, did not know it and did not have the class or the decency to return your $31 background fees - of which only $21 is mandated by the state. *Note that this could be construed by some as needlessly casting us all in a bad light - but I would definately threaten and I would most likely carry it out.

I am not sure how confrontational you are (I am about a 98.7 on the 100 point scale) but I would go in very calm, matter of fact and tell him strait up:

a. Show some decency and class and refund my money
b. The bad reputation, publicity and scrutiny cost you far more - (give him your personal guarantee on that)
c. Do not appologise, do not sympathize. He is a business trying to make a profit - that entails risk and in this case, he comes up short $21 out of his pocket for the check. Do not feel bad, do not be conciliatory, look him in the eye and ask for your money.
c. Try it while the place is busy - raise your voice and say "ITS ONY FAIR THAT YOU REFUND MY LOUSY BACKGROUND FEE! ITS NOT MY FAULT THE GUN YOU TRIED TO SELL ME WAS STOLEN!". At least 5 customers should hear this.
d. whatever you promise you will do - carry it out - with extreme prejudice.


I am a blackbelt consumer and I ALWAY win.

 

[jimpeel]

I would have gone back and talked to the owner and, if he tried to give me a line of BS about the $31, simply say "I'll put this quarter up against that $31. You keep the $31 and I'll drop this quarter in the nearest payphone and dial the investigative division of the BATFE. Wanna trade?"