BHP safety

[Gordon]

Since the BHP does not have a grip safety, and I am not so randy like I was in my youth, I am gonna carry my 'new' MK2 in a Snick holster with chamber loaded at half cock (safety notch) with safety on. This will require flipping down the safety and cocking the spur hammer to get into action. For me this old SAA sass shooter thumb cocking is a natural act and I feel that it doesn't get much safer than safety notch AND safety applied. There is something about the BHP safety that seems less ergonomic than a 1911 click thumb safety. This and the lack of grip safety unnerves me. But so does a condition one Glock.

 

[Snowdog]

Though I've never carried my HP, I do sometimes carry a 1911 in winter months in a Bianchi "Black Widow" belt slide holster. I love this rig, but I do find sometimes the manual safety is no longer in the "safe" position at the end of the day. Though this doesn't particularly bother me, I suppose I'd feel a bit less blithe if it were a HP in lieu of a 1911.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I don't believe that one can engage a BHP safety with the hammer at half cock. Personally, I'd have no qualms about carrying a BHP in condition 1. But in any case, I favor a 1911.

 

[Quiet]

I don't believe that one can engage a BHP safety with the hammer at half cock. Personally, I'd have no qualms about carrying a BHP in condition 1.

What he said.

If you don't feel safe carrying it cocked and locked, than carry it hammer down on an empty chamber.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...For me this old SAA sass shooter thumb cocking is a natural act...

Thumb cocking a BHP at speed under stress is a lot different from thumb cocking a single action revolver. The BHP has a much smaller hammer, smaller hammer spur, thus much less mechanical advantage and a stouter hammer spring, compare with something like a Colt Single Action Army or clone thereof. In any case, I've seen enough folks at SASS shoots short stroke their hoglegs while thumb cocking under the relatively modest stress of competition to be reluctant to count on being able to do it quickly and reliably under the stress of a real emergency. If the hammer slips while you're trying to thumb cock your BHP, you may or may not get an ND, but you'll at least have to waste time sorting things out.

 

[chieftain]

Unless you are left handed, I don't believe in "ambi" safeties on either my Highpowers or my 1911's for CCW. For service, or competition the "Ambi" is fine, not for CCW.

I carry my CCW's in a IWB Milt Sparks VM II. Any single sided or better said "non-Ambi" safety set up works fine. My safeties are protected by the holster. No safety issue.

As to shooting, both guns are shot the same way, with a high "thumb" forward hold, that puts the strong hand thumb on the safety at all times.

Ensures that when I grab one of these weapons, that the safety "automatically" comes off, and helps quite a bit with recoil control. It also emulates the fastest action shooters in the world.

Are there other ways, of course. That is my way, and why I have no problems with my safeties on either a 1911 or Highpower. (I recommend the Cylinder and Slide single sided or
"non-ambi" safety.)

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt

 

[Steve C]

Generally the 1/2 cock is not a safe position as it is there just to catch the hammer if the thumb slips during cocking. No reason not to carry the HP in condition 1 in a good holster or if you want to cock it drop the hammer completely down as the firing pin is an inertial type that needs the hammer strike to set it off and will not be touching the primer with the hammer down.

I see no reason at all why anyone has any faith in the grip safety of a 1911 which only stops the trigger from being pulled unless the grip safety is disengaged. It does nothing to stop the gun from discharging if the hammer bounced out of engagement with the sear or if the sear snaps from a blow to the hammer if the gun is dropped. During a normal draw the grip safety is disengaged as soon as the grip comes to hand. You would occasionally see pictures of Col. Coopers 1911's with the grip safety held down by electricians tape.

Annother option is the Isrelie technique of keeping the gun with chamber empty and the slide being drawn back to load the first round as the gun is drawn.

 

[Gordon]

I don't keep the Glock 26 I regularly carry chamber loaded, I am a great big sissy about ND s in my old age. The BHP most definitely lets you apply the safety at 1/2 cock, as do my Stars BTW. I DO carry 1911s condition One , but I am very careful and always switched on. Overall I prefer the DA CZ or a Beretta 92 with decockers for a more relaxed feel; no strikers hovering over primers. There is just something about those slim sexy single actions though.....

 

[BikerRN]

If you are not comfortable carrying a Single Action Autoloader in condition 1, then get a different gun.

The only reason the 1911 has a grip safety is because the U.S. Army insisted on it. From what I've researched, Mr. Browning didn't think a grip safety was needed.

BikerRN

 

[Frank Ettin]

...The BHP most definitely lets you apply the safety at 1/2 cock,...

I stand corrected. I just tried it with my Mark III. But the hammer could not then be cocked without disengaging the safety.

So your plan, in an emergency under high stress when time is of the essence, would be to disengage the safety and then thumb cock the small BHP hammer against a heavy mainspring? Be my guest.

Have you considered some good, professional training?

 

[Billy Shears]

I've got to support the general consensus here. Thumb-cocking the hammer is a fine motor skill that will be impaired under the stress of an actual gunfight. You will find your ability to do it severely compromised. You can do it with a Colt SAA because the hammer has a large spur, is placed naturally under the thumb, and hasn't got as stiff a mainspring to overcome. The BHP safety has a small spur, the hammer is placed so that you will have to reach your thumb up and back, over the tang on the frame to cock it, or use the weak hand thumb, and the mainspring is much stiffer. All this will make this a very, very dodgy maneuver to complete under stress. You'd find it far quicker to do an Israeli style draw and rack the slide with your weak hand (a gross motor skill), or... just carry the thing cocked and locked. There's no safety problems associated with this method of carry with the BHP, provided you have trained yourself to the requisite level of skill needed to carry a single action.

 

[Frank Ettin]

And the problem with cocking a gun with the weak hand or using the Israeli draw, is that I don't see how one can count on having both hands available in an emergency.

 

[Gordon]

"Have you considered some good, professional training?"
How about: FBI Academy as the fledgling DEA didn't have it's own
California POST certification
California and Az. CCW certification
Chapman Academy and a Farnham Seminar
API 250, 350
All ITTS pistol series -and others
9 Louis Awerbuck courses all of which involved pistols
Survivor of 2 pistol shootings and numerous armed confrontations

Like I said younguns; these days I figure it better to be safer than faster
The time spent making the piece ready while on target gives a pause to MAKE SURE . I switch to Orange and a ready piece if there is a reasonable chance for somebody to 'get the drop' on me.
But that is just me.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Good training, Gordon. So I'm very surprised by your perspective. Certainly when I was at Gunsite and in my classes with Louis Awerbuck and Massad Ayoob the central theme always was that even with situational awareness things can happen quickly and with minimal time to make ready.

And the way Jeff Cooper explained Orange to me (1) the switch from Yellow to Orange to Red may take place in a moment; (2) going to Orange doesn't automatically mean that you'll be going to Red. So you see someone you think is suspicious reach behind his jacket; are you going to draw your BHP, disengage the safety and cock it? Now what are you going to do if he was just scratching his butt?

As for being a "youngun", I'm 61, have spent my time at Guniste, and with Louis Awerbuck, Bennie Cooley, Mas Ayoob and others, as well as being a certified instructor for a number of NRA classes.

But no matter. You do things your way, and I'll do them mine.

 

[Gordon]

AsI am sure you know, a little more to it than that! If I see a furtive action by someone focused on me I will present when I see a weapon.If that weapon starts to be bought to bear;move off the X..and shoot!
My point with the BHP is the rather indistinct thumb safety, and no firing pin block.
I have been carrying a Glock on duty - for reserves, the last 15 years. But On The Job in a security holster is a whole lot different than recreational banging around IMHO. So my "licensed" Glock 26 is usually not chamber loaded when CCWed.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...a little more to it than that! If I see a furtive action by someone focused on me I will present when I see a weapon....

I agree completely. But for me at least, the sticking point to carrying a BHP at half cock with the safety engaged (or pretty much anything with an empty chamber) is that presentation ready to fire will take more time, if just an instant, than a single action auto-loader in condition 1 or a SA/DA auto-loader with a round chambered or a DA revolver, etc. -- and maybe more time than you have.

And setting things up so you need your weak hand still doesn't make a lot of sense to to me. What if it's not available?

I'd prefer to focus may attention on assessing things and making the decision whether or not to fire, rather than manipulating my gun to make it ready.

 

[HorseSoldier]

There is something about the BHP safety that seems less ergonomic than a 1911 click thumb safety.

Cylinder and Slide makes an improved High Power safety with a detent-ball set up (visible in picture below) that makes for a much more 1911-like and positive on/off. Not a drop in part, though -- have to get a 'smith to install it, or send pistol off to C&S.

 

[rellascout]

I love my wide C&S BHP safety

 

[BHPshooter]

I realize I'm a couple days late to this, but I'd like to point out a couple of things.

Since the BHP does not have a grip safety, and I am not so randy like I was in my youth, I am gonna carry my 'new' MK2 in a Snick holster with chamber loaded at half cock (safety notch) with safety on.

Firstly, Automatics and Revolvers are very different. Revolvers are shaped such that it is ergonomically feasible to cock and decock the hammer, if you have to. Autos have the hammer much more awkwardly situated. The BHP has a very stiff mainspring, on top of it all. My point is, thumb cocking a Hi Power is nothing like thumb cocking a Colt SAA.

The biggest reason carrying on half-cock would be a no-no, IMO, is Rule #3. The trigger should only be touched when you want the gun to go bang. Please watch this video for a perfect example.

Every time you decock a semi-auto that isn't equipped with a decocker, you're playing with fire. If you play with fire long enough, you will get burned... it's not a question of if, it's a question of when.

Look, it's a free country, and I know this probably won't sway you... just think really hard about the risk/benefit of carrying that way. IMO, the risk is much too high... but that's a decision you have to make yourself.

FWIW, I carry a BHP cocked and locked all day, every day. I have never had a problem with the safety wiping off, and even if I did, the trigger is still covered by the holster.

Wes

 

[jaydubya]

Gordon, your problem would be solved if you installed Cylinder & Slide's SFS kit. Not cheap, but it makes the Browning High Power an immensely safe carry weapon -- far more so than any pistol with a grips safety. I have described how it works so many times, on so may web sites, I'm weary of it. Please do a search for "SFS". If you can't find satisfaction, PM me.

Cordially, Jack

 

[AK103K]

in a Snick holster

Not to change the subject, but where'd you get a Snick holster?

 

[chieftain]

My point with the BHP is the rather indistinct thumb safety, and no firing pin block.

Actually all the late model Highpowers from FN, which of course includes all the Browning Highpowers, DO have a firing pin safety.

AS such anyone who would carry a striker based handgun with a round in the chamber, will be very happy with the locked and cocked late model Highpower. Such as any Mk III. I believe that also covers the Mk II's also.

These guns are literally "safer" mechanically than their striker fired pistol without a manual safety. Such as some of the S&W M&P's and the Ruger SR9, for example that "DO" have thumb safeties. There may be additional models that I am not aware of.

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt.

 

[BHPshooter]

Actually all the late model Highpowers from FN, which of course includes all the Browning Highpowers, DO have a firing pin safety.

The latest FM Hi Power Clones also have it.

I believe that also covers the Mk II's also.

SOME MkII BHPs had the firing pin block. You will sometimes hear them referred to as Mk2-1/2. However, not all MkIIs had them.

Gordon, your problem would be solved if you installed Cylinder & Slide's SFS kit. Not cheap, but it makes the Browning High Power an immensely safe carry weapon -- far more so than any pistol with a grips safety.

An excellent point! The SFS lets you safely carry with a round in the chamber, hammer down. It would also be much faster and less complex to get into action than your current plan.

Wes

 

[bluez4u]

For the last few years, I've carried my 40.cal BHP in a IWB holster in condition 1.

When holstering up, I check the safety, and periodically during the day (a habit I have).

So far, I have not had any issues with the safety.

The holster I use (I also have one for my 1911) is a IWB Mo-Slick by Caldwell Leathers and is very streamline.

I had a Bianchi high ride holster and that was a problem, it would catch on everything.

 

[rishooter]

BHP Carry

Carrying a BHP hammer down on a loaded chamber is not really dangerous.The MkIII is easy to thumb cock fast,because it has a spur hammer.The loop hammers are much harder to cock fast.Condition 1 is ok also.