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Bigger is Better

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by priler, May 15, 2019.

  1. priler

    priler Member

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    I used to think different but today I agree. these do make for a better HD tool. what's your opinion?

     
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  2. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    I use an AR pistol in 7.62x39
     
  3. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    What would make this better than an AR pistol with a brace in 9mm. I did a quick search on the Stribog but didn't find anything on the cost. I'm thinking the AR might be more affordable & much easier to get parts & magazines for. If I were really serious about it I would go dig around PSA. I bet you could put something together for a very reasonable price.
     
  4. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

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    Downside would be much harder to secure when not in use in smaller places for those of us that would want to do such and one hand operation compared to regular pistol.
     
  5. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    I don’t know if “better” is the word I’d use. It’s certainly capable.

    There are advantages to carbines and carbines that want to be pistols, like this one, but I mostly shoot real pistols. I like the handiness and maneuverability of them. In a tight spot or in a close physical engagement I feel a standard pistol is a better choice.

    I think it’s just a matter of preference. Pick what suits you.
     
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  6. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I prefer handguns for HD. They lend themselves to multitasking (opening/shutting doors, using the phone. etc.) better than anything else. They are easy to keep out of sight while still available, and are easier to maintain control of if your opponent closes the distance to you. If I was going to keep a long gun ready for HD use, it would be a 9mm carbine like a Ruger PC9 or one of the AR's in 9mm. Remember that anything you discharge in a structure is going to be incredibly loud and disorienting to everyone in the area (unless you sleep with peltors on, or you decide to keep your legally owned suppressor "ready for use"- which really means "not secured"). Something like a 5.56 with a 10" barrel is going to be brutal- I have been forced to fire one of these things without ear protection.
    For most of us, "home defense" means using a firearm within the confines of our home, or possibly in the outdoor area in close proximity of the home. MOST houses (regardless of square footage) won't even offer line of sight to anything past 20 yards or so, anywhere inside the house. I don't think a round designed for engagements out to 300 yards or more (like the 5.56 and every other rifle cartridge) are necessary for such a task. For those of us who live on larger lots, a rifle like a 5.56 AR may be a good option to have available, but for me a handgun would still be my "go-to" for rapid deployment in response to a threat in the house.
    One thing this video did get right 100%- weapon mounted lights! You can't shoot what you can't see, and the need to ID your target before you "let fly" can't be understated.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  7. mrmike7189

    mrmike7189 Member

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    Agree.....carbines have their place in home defense if you have a large home with big open rooms and hallways. I prefer a handgun for close quarters in small homes/apartments.
    If I owned a farm I would use my Mini 14 with the 30 round mags...but alas I dont own a farm! (only in my dreams)LOL
     
  8. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    The longest straight line of sight I have inside my house is about 30'. Any of my handguns will work just fine at that distance.
    And agreed about the lights. If not gun mounted at least having a powerful working flashlight available once it's lights out is critical. Check your flashlight every month.
    After all, the definition of flashlight I grew up with was "a metal tube for holding dead, probably corroded batteries."
     
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  9. Browning

    Browning Member

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    Why not just get a Sig MPX or CZ Scorpion?

    Mags are certainly no issue.

    Or one of the Ruger Pistol Caliber Carbines (especially if you run a Ruger or Glock pistol)?
     
  10. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Luke

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    -Pistol for fast reaction, near myself when sleeping or around home. As was stated by @FL-NC a pistol inside the home is hard to beat, allowing one to keep hands free to operate a phone, doors, or guide family members.

    -AR Pistol with silencer, Shotgun, PCC, in bedroom secured in fast acquisition mount. Easy to have quickly available if there is a situation that demands it (multiple people, family barricaded in room to wait for cops where one is not having to manipulate anything with support hand).

    Weapon mounted light is a must, along with spare magazine near firearm.
     
  11. bds

    bds Member

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    I agree.

    We used to rely on pistols as primary HD weapons but after shooting Pistol Caliber Carbines, PCCs are now the primary weapons and pistols secondary. Even for inside house defensive ranges, PCCs are easier to point shoot faster with larger 30/33 round capacity magazines (over pistols' 15/17 round magazines).

    We have AR based 9mm PCCs that use Glock/Endo mags along with Just Right Carbine and 9mm/40S&W/45ACP caliber conversions that also take Glock mags to complement our Glock pistols (Mag bases are color taped to better identify calibers when in mag holders).

    In addition, extra 100-150 fps gain in muzzle velocity will certainly help with terminal ballistics.
     
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  12. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Member

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    I like my PS90 for home defense. 26" long, even with the stock barrel. But, I prefer a handgun over any other carbine, for home defense
     
  13. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    I still prefer a handgun (with a light), for home defense. So I would say I'm not really into the Bigger is Better concept!

    Currently I have a SIG P229R with the SRT and the E2 grips along with a SIG STL-900L laser/light module for home defense.

    Zv6VUPo.jpg
     
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  14. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    To each their own. Keep what you feel is best but at least try to run a course with it to see if it's practical. You might change your mind. Maybe not

    Likely true. especially so in cities.

    I have 20+ yard open line of sight on 2 of the 3 floors. I still prefer a handgun. I could over penetrate every wall in my home with a 50 bmg and still couldn't hit a neighbor's house in any direction except maybe up with a perfect arch....i still prefer a handgun. In an apartment/ duplex/ condo etc I think a 5.56 would be terrible. If I end up in one of those my life has went terribly wrong but some people live that way.
    Room clearing and opening doors by oneself is difficult to do with a long gun without getting shot. You don't have the remainder of a 4 or 5 man tactical team covering a door as you open it or your arse while your searching, in the event of a home intruder, or at least I don't until 2 of my kids get older smarter and better trained. Lol.

    Ive trained with well trained individuals. I doubt any could open a door with one hand and get their rifle on me, identify me from anyone in their own family and fire before I could shoot them dead first. The armed criminal in your home likely doesn't care to shoot someone they didn't intend to so they may not wait for identification or even for the door to open. You likely do care.
    I have a 6920 in my gun rack beside the door for shooting varmints outside or if my proximity alarms go off (assuming it's not a flipping deer or dog) and a 12 guage for flying varmints (admittedly it's a new to me lever action 12 guage and quite possibly the worst/ least tactical shotgun for defense ever made. When it jams.... it jams right, and unless ran hard, does so often. I'll get my benelli or mossberg back in there when the new wears off. Lol). But for a noise in my house I would never grab either unless I thought the noise was a bear. In which case I'd just be confused because all you guys have disagreed on the right handgun/ shotgun/ mortar/ rifle for bear.

    I keep my glock 22 beside my bed in its safe. It has a light mounted but I'm honestly not sure how necessary it is. There is also an innova t4 in its charger on the stand. I go back and forth on the mounted light idea. Obviously I could just not turn it on so it can't really do harm. But honestly if an intruder, especially with a shotgun, shot toward our light we would be screwed. He is an armed intruder why wouldn't he? He isn't there to do me any favors.

    Plus I know my house better than them so who benefits more from the light? My kids have tactical hotwheel car and barbie hair brush boobytraps that are as effective as any m18 and far less directional so maybe waiting in the shadows is my best bet anyway. Assuming the rake or hoe that is inevitably laying in front of all 5 of my entry doors doesn't get them first. See....We are prepared. Lol that's just how we roll.

    But that's just my take on a very complex subject. No clear right answer. I've heard different opinions from different experts. And I'm no expert
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  15. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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    I’m still a “pistol by the bed, riot shotgun in the closet” kind of guy....
     
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  16. bds

    bds Member

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    For those posting pistol is enough, there are members/guests who live in cities where home invasion robberies are common where 5-7 gang members kick the back/kitchen door in while 2 spotters are posted outside. Even when home owners cooperate, if part of gang initiation, home owners can still be raped/killed. Police chief/Sheriff of city I lived in emphasized this clearly each year and encouraged home owners be armed to defend themselves until police can respond.

    I used to think pistol/shot gun was sufficient but changed my mind and switched our nightstand guns to ARs (.223 and .300 BLK) right next to tactical vests with multiple mags with pistols as secondary weapons. Home invasions in the city I lived in overcame even armed home owners as gang members were armed with multiple AK47s/pistols.

    Thankfully we moved away from that high crime city and our retirement location is much better. We have gone back to pistols as nightstand guns but the 9mm carbines are not too far away.
     
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  17. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    What city was that?

    Kevin
     
  18. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Given that type of a living situation, moving away was the ONLY home defense measure that would be adequate.

    No pistol, shotgun, AK, AR, bazooka, or pack of ill tempered attack dogs with fricken lasers on their heads will make up for a living situation where you could effectively be attacked by a gang of armed bandits. That's effectively a war zone in my opinion.

    sounds like south Chicago. You couldn't pay me enough to live in a city like that.
     
  19. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    A handgun is still my go-to, but I have an 8" Sig MPX SBR with a Magpul MS4 sling (to mitigate the door-opening-and-closing issue) in a nearby locked cabinet.
     
  20. bds

    bds Member

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    We reached the same conclusion.

    It got to the point where everyone I worked with was either victims of burglary/robbery or knew a family member/friend who was. Myself personally was burglarized several times. On one burglary, had wife returned from the dog park a little earlier, could have been a robbery victim as two gang members (One on probation) ransacked the house - Fortunately they were caught but unfortunately, they plea bargained so police could pursue higher up members in the gang. This was during 2008-2014 when there was a lot of empty houses due to foreclosures and squatters moved into these empty houses. House across from our house was squatted by no less than 2-3 families who stripped the inside of house clean with everything, including copper electrical wiring. Multiple inmates were paroled to the house and there were at least 1-2 police raid every week where 5-8 patrol cars showed up and brought out long line of suspects and took a few for outstanding warrants. We had long chats with police along with neighbors and formed neighborhood watch group but police told us squatter/crime trend was all over the city. We put up welded steel fencing completely around our property and even with 3 guard dogs, after wife got threatened by one of the squatters, she carried two pistols on person at all times even inside the house/backyard.

    The day we finished packing up the moving truck and drove away, there was probably the largest police raid on the squatter house. We left as more and more police cars kept showing up to take away the suspects.

    PM sent.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  21. Browning

    Browning Member

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    Two, three or four home invaders seems like a more common number, but I’ve heard of cases that involved that many.



    https://youtu.be/ooylf4ejHk0

    https://youtu.be/Uw-0nfVC2R









    https://youtu.be/j08WqoRKpcY

    https://youtu.be/A804A3WAbB0

    https://youtu.be/voTsJAi_

    https://youtu.be/voTsJAi_SHw

    There were three that tried to invade our home when I was a teenager.

    Where are you possibly going to move that doesn’t have this kind of thing going on? ‘Nice neighborhoods’ may have less violent crime going on, but they aren’t immune either though. These guys go where the money is and they have cars. Even if they don’t own a vehicle they can always steal one.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  22. bds

    bds Member

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    Main reasons driving the crime wave are gangs and meth. Along I-5 corridor cities of California, Oregon and Washington, production of meth and gang distribution have increased crime rate for cities along and around I-5 coupled with homelessness issues.

    Further you move away from cities/I-5 corridor, it seems crime rate drops. We searched city-data crime rate for years as we considered our retirement location - http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-California.html

    FYI, city we moved away from in 2015 had 3,877 burglaries and 9,288 thefts compared to less than 50 burglaries and less than 100 thefts for city we moved to.
     
  23. Browning

    Browning Member

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    My point was more that this type of crime can literally happen anywhere.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-charged-murdering-pastors-wife-amanda-blackburn-n467986

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackburn/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f452c173ecb3

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2812-Sunnyfield-Ct-Indianapolis-IN-46228/1278225_zpid/

    Less violent crime is obviously better than more violent crime. It reduces your chances of being the one hit. However, no matter where you move you will never find a place with no violent crime period.
     
  24. bds

    bds Member

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    This is true.

    My wife's cousins are Ventura city Sergeant and Ventura county Sheriff's deputy and they report higher crime rate where gang members frequent and control. I found this to correlate with city-data tracking data. More you move away from I-5 or major freeway/highway corridors of gang controlled cities, less you see of gang graffiti and associated crimes like multiple intruder home invasions.

    I agree that home invasion robbery can happen anywhere but prefer to deal with a single intruder than multiple armed gang members.
     
  25. Browning

    Browning Member

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    Sure. I agree. If there aren’t a large number of violent felons who live and frequent areas a short drive away from your ‘nice neighborhood’ then your chances of being victimized lessen substantially.

    Just like if you harden your house (alarm, dog, cameras, security shutters, fence, bump proof locks, sturdy doors, lights etc) then they might move on to another house that isn’t as tough a nut to crack.

    Gang members (likely to commit such crimes) also move around.

    https://www.latimes.com/local/la-xpm-2014-feb-03-la-me-echo-park-gang-20140126-story.html

    https://psmag.com/social-justice/th...eles-southern-california-epidemic-crime-95498

    It’s like what happened with Los Angeles. LA gang members were priced out of their own neighborhoods due to rising home costs and gentrification. They spilled out of LA and moved other places. Where are they going to go and how are they going to get there?

    Everything you’re saying makes perfect sense to me.

    Sure, I’d rather deal with just one guy as well. Some of the cases above were in supposedly nice neighborhoods and every single one involved at least three individuals.
     
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