Bikes (cycling) and guns

[goColt]

I found a couple of threads involving cycling and carrying but none really stayed on topic of recommended guns. So here is my attempt at it...

A month or so ago I decided to start biking to work. It's 7 miles one-way and part of it is through a not-so-nice neighborhood.

Now, I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in my pocket but I am thinking I may need something with a little more oomph behind it both for two-legged as well as four-legged varmints. I've already had one 'run in' with some punk-a$$ urbanites who threw a plastic bottle full of some sorta sport drink at me which glanced off of my arm. I want to be better prepared for the next, possibly worse encounter.

I am thinking a compact 9x19 or .40 S&W. What comes to mind is a Kel-Tec PF9 or P-11 or maybe one of the Kahr's or even an XD. I am not a fan of Glocks, so I think those are out and I am not very familiar with Karh's. I love my Colt Defender but it is a little heavy. Also, I don't wanna drop a lot of coin on a gun right now.

So, I'd appreciate some suggestions especially from those who actually do cycle and carry.

I am pretty sure I'll be either open carrying or out-of-the-waistband carrying.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[chris in va]

I say stick with the P3AT.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Right now I carry a S&W 642 in a Smartcarry when I ride my bicycle, although, a couple of weeks ago I had a small situation that ,thankfully, didn't turn into anything but it got me to thinking that maybe I could use a few more rounds available to me.

I had had a real bad day (with the the next few to get worse when some moron stole my commuter bicycle worth about $1,100) when, as I was leaving a restaurant parking lot, I had an idiot make a comment about how fat I am. Hey, I know I'm fat, but I don't need some mouth-breathing half-wit to point it out to me. Well, out of character, I decided to tell him that I thought he was "number one", if you know what I mean. At this, he goes ballistic and starts cussing me something fierce. I believe that he would have come at me if he would have had a way to get out of that van. He was with three other guys and thankfully they just kept driving.

As I was riding off, I was thinking that if all four of them had decided to do something stupid that maybe my five rounds might be insufficient, and if they were armed then I would be screwed anyways. The next day I started searching for a small auto that is extremely reliable but carries quite a few more rounds than my j-frame.

It has proven to be much more difficult than I thought it would be. I have a Kel-tec P11 that I don't trust. It has never run reliably. I've tried to like a Glock G26 but it just doesn't fit. Kahrs don't hold that much more than my J-frame and are more money than I would pay for what you get. The XD9sc just seems blocky to me for some reason even though I love my 4" service model. The Glock G19 fits me pretty well for some reason but is on the edge of being to large to comfortably carry on a bicycle. I have a CZ RAMI that is a terrific gun that may fit the bill if I can keep that beaver tail from jabbing me while riding.

For now it is still the 642. I picked up a new bike yesterday and will soon be riding again after I get it commuterized. Maybe I'll just have a New York reload in the form of another 642 or 442. I have a couple of others just waiting to be put into service.

 

[MattTheHat]

My cycle has a rather large motor attached, but when I carry on it, I'm carrying a 9mm XDm. I figure 20 rounds of 9x19 can't be all bad.

-Matt

 

[loop]

At one time I was a professional racer. I trained about four to five hours a day in the saddle.

What you need to learn is that cyclists are targets, but the use of lethal force is not justified for a water balloon or golf ball tossed your way.

Only one time in years of training and tens of thousands of miles of training and racing, only once was there an event that may have justified lethal force. We inadvertently rode into a riot. A rider was attacked with baseball bats and a golf club. Foolishly, I and two other riders went back to confront the attackers, who had the guy pushed up against a park playground jungle gym. I went straight to the biggest guy who appeared to be a leader and demanded our friend's release. Long story short - it was granted and we rode off in tact.

A gun is to save your life or someone else's life. It is not there to avenge someone tossing a sport drink in your face.

Cyclists are targets. Two Tour de France riders were shot with pellet or BB guns recently. They never even slowed down.

To be blunt - grow some huevos. A gun is for life-threatening situations, not because you choose to ride a bicycle in a bad part of town.

I've always carried everywhere I go, but I never carried on a bike. It is extra weight.

For 13 years I rode 500 miles a week.

If you want to carry on your bike pick something very light.

BTW, if you are portly and riding you aren't a serious cyclist.

Bad drivers are a much more serious threat when on the road than being mugged.

 

[goColt]

At one time I was a professional racer. I trained about four to five hours a day in the saddle.

What you need to learn is that cyclists are targets, but the use of lethal force is not justified for a water balloon or golf ball tossed your way.

Only one time in years of training and tens of thousands of miles of training and racing, only once was there an event that may have justified lethal force. We inadvertently rode into a riot. A rider was attacked with baseball bats and a golf club. Foolishly, I and two other riders went back to confront the attackers, who had the guy pushed up against a park playground jungle gym. I went straight to the biggest guy who appeared to be a leader and demanded our friend's release. Long story short - it was granted and we rode off in tact.

A gun is to save your life or someone else's life. It is not there to avenge someone tossing a sport drink in your face.

Cyclists are targets. Two Tour de France riders were shot with pellet or BB guns recently. They never even slowed down.

To be blunt - grow some huevos. A gun is for life-threatening situations, not because you choose to ride a bicycle in a bad part of town.

I've always carried everywhere I go, but I never carried on a bike. It is extra weight.

For 13 years I rode 500 miles a week.

If you want to carry on your bike pick something very light.

BTW, if you are portly and riding you aren't a serious cyclist.

Bad drivers are a much more serious threat when on the road than being mugged.

loop, you've completely missed my point and once again a thread about bikes and guns is going off-topic. I am not talking about shooting someone over a sport drink. I am looking for a larger caliber and larger capacity gun for if/when I encounter something more serious than what I described as already happened.

Also, please keep your comments about "grow some huevos' and "if you are portly and riding you aren't a serious cyclist" to yourself. I don't need help in either regard and I am not asking for your opinion on either subject. Let's stick to guns, huh? Remember, this is THE HIGH ROAD...try taking it.

 

[scottaschultz]

I am looking for a larger caliber and larger capacity gun for if/when I encounter something more serious than what I described as already happened.

I know you're not going to like this, but with all due respect, if you genuinely believe that your 7 mile route is so dangerous that you feel it necessary to carry a lethal weapon, you need to either change your route or change your mode of transportation.

I applaud you effort to become more physically fit, but why put yourself at risk? If it is that dangerous to ride to work, you might want to ask yourself if it is really worth it. You may want to consider riding after work or on weekends. You can put a bike rack on your car and drive somewhere safe.

If you are not willing (or unable) to change your route, you might want to consider going back to driving to work and getting a set of rollers and ride your bike indoors. It takes a little practice to get your balance right, but this way you can ride to your heart's content and not have to worry about being shot or assaulted! This way you can also ride in any weather, rain or shine, 365 days a year.

Scott

 

[ChaoSS]

No, goColt, he didn't miss your point. You said someone threw a bottle at you, and you wanted to be prepared (with a gun) for the next, possibly worse, encounter. If you don't mean that you would draw a gun on someone for something so trivial, then try not to sound like you would.

 

[jacquesmm]

It looks like this is about bicycles not motorbikes.
My son and I ride a lot and it can be dangerous: idiots push you off the road and throw stuff at you.
However, I have not seen one situation in which I could have used a gun.
I write "could", not "would".
If someone pushes you off the road, you crash but can not shoot: the danger is over. You may be hurt but you are not defending yourself.
The danger is that if I carried, you would get so justifiably angry that I could shoot the bad driver.
I have been in that mood a few times, unless you ride your bike, you can't understand.
That is why, despite having a CCW permit, I do not carry on my bike.

Off topic? No, you asked what to carry, I answer nothing.

 

[chris in va]

I've always carried everywhere I go, but I never carried on a bike. It is extra weight

That's all fine and good. But I'm guessing you weren't a mountain biker that rode into some pretty deep woods, or out of the way places where LEO's just can't get to. Then there's the animal aspect.

I got attacked by a dog while riding on a road one day. Fortunately I was able to throw a well-placed kick into it's jaw and rode off, but if it had managed to pull me off the bike or make me wreck, then what?

Necessity for self protection doesn't stop when you throw a leg over a bike.

 

[lions]

If you want to carry on your bike pick something very light.

He isn't on the Tour de France, nothing wrong with a little weight resistance!

A Kel-Tec PF9 or P11 sounds right for your situation, and they're even fairly light.

 

[goColt]

Well, thanks to chris in va, Phydeaux642 and MattTheHat for their suggestions. They seem to be the only ones who can make on-topic posts. And although not on-topic exactly, at least scottaschultz had something sorta related to what I was talking about.

Now I remember why I don't post on THR very often.

I guess I'll just get some advice/suggestions someplace else.

 

[lead-inspector]

NY Reload.

You mentioned another revolver(s) already owned. It would make sense to me just to get a holster for it and carry 2, 5 shot pistols (maybe a speed loader or speed strip?)

I have a rule that I ALWAYS follow: If I think I NEED to be armed where I am going I DON'T go. Avoid problem areas.

Steve

 

[banjoman2255]

Give the guy a break. The man can ride his bicycle through any neighborhood he wants, and what's wrong with trying to exercise. My dad rides over 200 miles a week on his bicycle. His buddy carries a small .32 at all times.

 

[noskilz]

My, my, goColt, we're surely sensitive here.

My two cents: riding a bike can be very dangerous. There is definitely road rage out there. A gun can be very handy if someone exits their vehicle and wants to exact revenge for the some slight from a cyclist. You are not riding into a firefight. You need a weapon to defend yourself and get out of there. You have no cover. You are exposed. You are usually outweighed by at least a 2000 pound vehicle (unless of course, they're driving a Smart Car, in which case, you might have them at a disadvantage.) Getting into a high capacity firefight is a losing proposition. A 642 would seem to be ideal in my book.

If your chosen route is really that dangerous, ride farther and take a better, safer route.

 

[scottaschultz]

Now I remember why I don't post on THR very often.

I guess I'll just get some advice/suggestions someplace else.

With all due respect...

Uh oh, you know you're in trouble when a post begins like that!

This just confirms my assertion that people don't really post things on forums looking for opinions when all they really want is affirmations that they made the right decision. If someone disagrees with you, then they obviously don't understand your circumstances or appreciate your situation or are simply being argumentative.

You admit that you have already been "assaulted" on your way to work. Knowing this, I don't understand why you insist on riding your bike to work. At 14 miles round trip, it certainly can't be financially motivated. From a physical fitness standpoint, while any exercise is good, this very limited amount of exertion probably won't yield significant results unless you are making other lifestyle changes in your overall exercise and eating habits.

Seriously, if you are so fearful of your ride to work that you feel it necessary to carry a lethal weapon, why on earth would you continue to do it, especially if you have other choices?

Scott

 

[Cosmoline]

I've been riding for years and carrying. My observations are as follows:

--WB carry is troublesome because the hips move around a lot and create friction with a tight belt. Plus with cycling clothing you often HAVE no waistband as such.

--Fanny packs are OK but are easy to leave behind. Worse case in a store!

--Pocket carry works if you have big pockets, but I find in the seated position access isn't all that great. JACKET pocket carry is much better, but obviously requires a jacket.

--On-frame carry lets you pack a lot more heat but it also creates risks when you leave the bike unattended. Thieves love to ride up, snag unlocked bikes, and ride off on them. Leaving you the clunker they came in on. With a firearm on board the bike that got stolen it opens up a whole new dimension of trouble.

--On-frame/off frame carry is great in theory but I've never seen a system that works. Maybe someone could invent it. To be able to swap between the two without attracting attention is hard to pull off. Plus you run the risk of forgetting it.

--Shoulder holsters work pretty well. While somewhat slower on the draw for ordinary carry, if you rig it right the harness will be excellent for the leaning-forward posture of the bike. I have a custom rig worked up to put the wheelgun canted downward right where my hand can grab it. A cover shirt over this offers perfect concealment. This is the system I've been riding with every day for about two years now during the summer. In the winter I swap to jacket carry because I wear large baggy jackets in the cold.

BTW, if you are portly and riding you aren't a serious cyclist.

Don't be too quick to judge by appearances boyo. I'm pretty portly and I ride year round 6 or 7 days a week in Anchorage Alaska. I ride through conditions that would break a lower 48 fairweather skinny mcfancypants rider and leave him weeping.

To be blunt - grow some huevos. A gun is for life-threatening situations, not because you choose to ride a bicycle in a bad part of town.

You don't think cyclists run into life-threatening situations? I rode up in the immediate aftermath of a driveby a few years back. The guy was sitting there on the curb with a bullet in his gut.

Seriously, if you are so fearful of your ride to work that you feel it necessary to carry a lethal weapon, why on earth would you continue to do it, especially if you have other choices?

By your logic we would never leave the house. You should not be forced to move or change your lifestyle because of the threat of thugs. If you think a motor vehicle offers you protection from bullets, you're very naive.

 

[Claude Clay]

get the p-11 working.

send it back to K-T. turn around time is fast and they get it right the more tries you give them.

the kicker for me is--having a gun does not mean that now it is safer for you to go someplace that was previously questionable. if it is your job to go there that is a reason--though many will question why someone would want a job that required them to be exposed to such imminent danger as to need a weapon.

cause you can in America go anywhere don't mean its the smart thing to do.

 

[Cosmoline]

This thread is interesting. A valid question is met with two well-known types. The "serious" cyclist who goes out of his way to scoff at lesser peddlers, and the motor vehicle commuter who thinks it's goofy to keep riding a bike when you run risks doing so. My response is simple:

I RIDE

c ya!

 

[rust collector]

I ride a couple thousand miles a year, and have been very fortunate. Others have had bottles thrown at them, bitten by dogs or been threatened in other ways. If you don't feel vulnerable out there, you don't get it.

Carrying a gun does not mean we are looking for trouble any more than a motorist or pedestrian. Cyclists may be at a disadvantage, but if we were quitters, we'd have done that long ago.

I carry a P3AT or LCP in a pocket holster in a jersey pocket. I hope never to need it, but it works well in this role. A second mag would also fit in a seat bag easily. Don't even know it's there. Cel phone is in another pocket or strap pouch on the camelbak.

 

[RobNDenver]

My wife and I bike every weekend, along a very nice trail through the heart of Denver. It often is populated by urban campers, drinking and panhandling. I carry my P239 in a Mountain Hardware fanny pack. I use a Desantis Nemesis to cover it inside the pocket where its stored. I've never had to reach for it when riding, but I am much more comfortable having it and not needing it, than the alternative.

 

[scottaschultz]

By your logic we would never leave the house. You should not be forced to move or change your lifestyle because of the threat of thugs. If you think a motor vehicle offers you protection from bullets, you're very naive.

The guy rides 7 miles through what he calls "not-so-nice" neighborhoods. He has already been assaulted and also says he is fearful of 4-legged predators. His choice of this mode of transportation seems to be totally voluntary so if it was me, I wouldn't be doing riding a bike under those circumstances. There are safer choices so why go looking for trouble? Just because you can ride through that neighborhood, doesn't mean you have to.

I agree with Claude Clay. I call it the Speedo theory... just because as Speedo comes in your size doesn't mean you have to wear one!

Scott

 

[Phydeaux642]

What you need to learn is that cyclists are targets, but the use of lethal force is not justified for a water balloon or golf ball tossed your way.

I think a golf ball thrown at me from a vehicle moving at 50mph could be considered a deadly weapon.

To be blunt - grow some huevos.

My, my. How in the world do you even ride a bike with those giant huevos? Don't they get in the way of pedaling?

BTW, if you are portly and riding you aren't a serious cyclist.

You have shown yourself to be an arrogant goof with that statement. During the time that I was commuting by bike exclusively I weighed about 250 at 5'8". I was riding 900-1,000 miles a month, sometimes in amazing thunderstorms and sometimes in 10 degree weather. Is that serious enough for ya?

I have a rule that I ALWAYS follow: If I think I NEED to be armed where I am going I DON'T go. Avoid problem areas.

What do you do in the house all day? You NEVER know when trouble will confront you.

Now I remember why I don't post on THR very often.

Yes, goColt there are a few arrogant bad boys that roam the halls of THR.

 

[lions]

Seriously, if you are so fearful of your ride to work that you feel it necessary to carry a lethal weapon, why on earth would you continue to do it, especially if you have other choices?

So I take it you don't CC? Put in "life" instead of "ride to work" and what do you have? I guess everyone who CCs should work from home, live in a bunker, send out for groceries, never leave the house, etc. After all, we have other choices.

 

[Cosmoline]

There are safer choices so why go looking for trouble? Just because you can ride through that neighborhood, doesn't mean you have to.

Lawfully riding down public roads is NOT "looking for trouble." This is all about the freedom to make choices for ourselves rather than being bullied or scared onto highways because a commute runs through a bad part of town. We either own our streets or someone else will take them over. Cyclists are uniquely situated to observe and help to safeguard streets. We see everything and are moving slow enough to really get to know when things aren't quite right. It's a positive public good to have cyclists commuting in neighborhoods. That doesn't mean I would ever go looking for a fight. I am a proud coward when it comes to that. But to suggest we have to concede whole neighborhoods to criminals is outrageous. Absolutely outrageous.