Twiki357 said:I’m going to give a “Depends” on if the gun is directly traceable to me. If I bought it new and it can be traced directly to me if ever used in a crime, then I want to know what direction to send the police in. If it’s an old gun that’s been around a while with a high probably of a broken ownership trail or if I bought it cash and carry, then I’ll sell it the same way.
. I have however been involved in the investigation of countless offences such as robbery, where handguns were the weapon of choice and I must point out Sir, that the firearms registry did not assist in solving one, nor obviously in deterring one. The reasons that the firearms registry is so highly ineffectual are, I believe obvious, but basically it affects the wrong people, law abiding citizens and not criminals.
CatManDo said:I use my iPhone to take a picture of the buyers photo ID, either the Drivers License or CC License. Stays in my Firearms records on a thumb drive.
Maybe. Appropriate language in the bill of sale might help. The details will be very much a matter of state law.grampajack said:...Frank, I would like to hear more about how we can protect ourselves from the liability of someone hurting themselves or someone else, either intentionally or unintentionally. For example, let's say the gun goes kaboom. Maybe it was a manufacturing weakness, or maybe they were using shadetree reloads....
the short answer is "no." The best you can do is do you due diligence and pay attention so that you might have a rock solid defense on the back end.grampajack said:...Is there anything preventing them from suing a private seller?...
What do you think of the bill of sale I posted above? Can I do anything to make it more solid without having to go so far that no one would sign it?Maybe. Appropriate language in the bill of sale might help. The details will be very much a matter of state law.
the short answer is "no." The best you can do is do you due diligence and pay attention so that you might have a rock solid defense on the back end.
And, depending on how much property/assets you have to protect, good liability insurance, including perhaps a generous umbrella policy, would be a good idea.
See also post 41.
I ask for the same thing I'd ask for if I was selling a toaster.
I'm sorry, but that goes beyond what I do here. Providing that sort of advice on a specific matter would constitute entering into a lawyer-client relationship and raise a number of professional conduct and ethical issues -- including whether I'm licensed to practice in your State. Plus, as a matter of professional responsibility I would not offer an opinion on those points without thoroughly researching the law in your State.grampajack said:What do you think of the bill of sale I posted above? Can I do anything to make it more solid without having to go so far that no one would sign it?
Same here. I wouldn't let any take a photo of my ID or record any information from it. But would you have a problem with them having your name? That's pretty much public information, so I don't see how it could lead to identity theft in and of itself. Shoot, even you address and phone number are more or less public, same with email address, and I'm not even asking for any of that.Same here. I do not ask for one, though if someone asked for one for a gun I was selling them, I wouldn't have any issues giving them one.
I certainly would never give out my personal information to a complete stranger (assuming I met them at a gun show or online to set up a FTF sale) for them to have on hand. And I most certainly would never allow someone to take a photograph of me if they were selling me the firearm.
I wouldn't insult or demean a person for asking, but if they insisted, I would politely decline to purchase it and be on my way.
But would you have a problem with them having your name?
If you have the seller's name, phone number, and general idea of where they live, then the police can find them easily.
When I saw this thread it intrigued me since I have never sold a gun casually. When I buy a gun it is because I have a need for (or intense interest in) and that means it, like my cable modem, will be something that my estate will have to worry about. The few times I have found I no longer wanted a gun, I ended up giving it away, but the recipient was always someone I knew well and who I had seen pass the background check when they had bought guns commercially, so I never gave the transfer much thought. I appreciate all the good information and specific cautions presented in this discussion.
I hope you tell them this up front before you meet (if you talk to them prior to seeing them face to face). Although I have a CCW I probably wouldn't want to deal with a seller like that and would be disappointed if I made a trip for nothing.When I sell a gun, I have to see proof of a clean background. CCW permit, military ID, police ID, firefighter ID, medical license, anything really that necessitates a clean background. If they can't offer evidence that they're capable of passing a simple background check, then I want to do an FFL transfer. Most people are okay with that, and the ones who aren't get sent packing. Most people in my state, however, have a CCW. I've not run into many situations where the buyer didn't have one, save for military people.
I hope you tell them this up front before you meet (if you talk to them prior to seeing them face to face). Although I have a CCW I probably wouldn't want to deal with a seller like that and would be disappointed if I made a trip for nothing.