Back during the time when cap and ball revolvers and black powder cartridge revolvers were at their height of popularity, how many bullets would have to be fired for the gun to get really fouled? Lastly did people who used their guns often clean them, how often and with what? Would they just use soapy water or something and then oil the gun so it didnt rust?
Black powder fouling in cap and ball revolver
- Thread starter Glock22
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Zeke/PA
Member
I can usually shoot about 50 shots till cleaning is necessary in my revolvers.
My belief is that hot soapy water can't be beat for a thorough cleaning job in ANY black powder firearm.
Of course, the hotter the water, the better as the hot water dries quickly and the warm metal seems to like the gun oil.
Respectfully, Zeke
My belief is that hot soapy water can't be beat for a thorough cleaning job in ANY black powder firearm.
Of course, the hotter the water, the better as the hot water dries quickly and the warm metal seems to like the gun oil.
Respectfully, Zeke
DaveP (UK)
Member
I think the second part of the question is particularly interesting - How and how often did the folk who bought and used the originals care for them?
Most of us know of all the options available today, but back in the day even simple stuff like hot water could be a big deal - first find the water...
Are there any accounts of guncare C19 style?
Most of us know of all the options available today, but back in the day even simple stuff like hot water could be a big deal - first find the water...
Are there any accounts of guncare C19 style?
old ironside
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My wife read me an excert from Little House on the Praire where the writer said that her father would clean his gun at the end of the day when he had been hunting. I seem to recall that he used water heated on the fire. I forgot the details and which chapter and all it was in, but if you can get a copy I recall it was interesting.
Zeke/PA
Member
The old Buffalo hunters carried extra water on a days shoot for cleaning the bores on the balckpowder cartridge guns.
As the day drew to a close and the water was gone, the hunter sometimes solved the problem of a fouled bore by urinating down the barrel.
Or so I'm told.
Respectfully, Zeke
As the day drew to a close and the water was gone, the hunter sometimes solved the problem of a fouled bore by urinating down the barrel.
Or so I'm told.
Respectfully, Zeke
I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. My grandfather told me of times in WWI when their water cooled machine gun needed coolant when the canteens were dry so they all just urinated in the thing. He said it didn't smell great but under the situation, who cared.
I would assume that they cleaned with plain water. Soap was a commodity that by all accounts I've read, wasn't used nearly often enough back then. It's not really needed anyway. The salts left from firing are the corrosive part and they're water soluble. Even if you leave some of the carbon behind, as long as you get the salts out, you're good to go.
I've cleaned with plain water a number of times and it works just fine. I think we tend to overclean our guns today, but I like mine shiny and spotless and do it too. I either use warm soapy water, or Ballistol in water.
As for how many shots, that would depend a lot on the quality of their powder. If you've tried Elephant powder, you know what I mean. Some powders are just downright nasty and foul up quick. Others are relatively clean and you can get quite a few shots between cleanings.
I've cleaned with plain water a number of times and it works just fine. I think we tend to overclean our guns today, but I like mine shiny and spotless and do it too. I either use warm soapy water, or Ballistol in water.
As for how many shots, that would depend a lot on the quality of their powder. If you've tried Elephant powder, you know what I mean. Some powders are just downright nasty and foul up quick. Others are relatively clean and you can get quite a few shots between cleanings.
Zeke/PA
Member
There's somethimg to be said for using grease on the mouth of a blackpowder revolver cylinder.
I always do and it seems to keep the fouling at least softer.
Respectfully, Zeke
I always do and it seems to keep the fouling at least softer.
Respectfully, Zeke
DaveP (UK)
Member
It isn't really the rifles that provoke my curiosity. They're fairly quick and easy to clean, doing so would be a natural conclusion to, say, a hunting session and the use of unconventional solvents is rumoured to go back at least as far as Wellingtons armies!
But revolvers! Defending myself could mean spending the next hour or so cleaning the thing! I'd get so cross at the prospect I probably wouldnt need to use it - one glance and they'd be falling off their horses
D'you reckon people did put in the time, without fail, or did they take a chance because they could always get another?
I read Little House on the Prairie just before Christmas - It was a different world!
But revolvers! Defending myself could mean spending the next hour or so cleaning the thing! I'd get so cross at the prospect I probably wouldnt need to use it - one glance and they'd be falling off their horses
D'you reckon people did put in the time, without fail, or did they take a chance because they could always get another?
I read Little House on the Prairie just before Christmas - It was a different world!
karlsgunbunker
Member
I use:
1 part murphy's oil soap
1 part hydrogen peroxide (brown bottle at the pharmacy)
1 part Isoproply alcohol (rubbing alsohol)
Works great and removes fouling and dries fast.
1 part murphy's oil soap
1 part hydrogen peroxide (brown bottle at the pharmacy)
1 part Isoproply alcohol (rubbing alsohol)
Works great and removes fouling and dries fast.
dstorm1911
Member
Davep, why would it take ya an hour to clean? I regularily run a hundred rounds through each of my Favorite 1858 Remmys every weekend without cleaning, afterwards it takes 15 minutes tops to clean and dry both guns plus my wifes two 60 colt navys, I just boil a pot of water and drop the cyl.s all in while they soak a minute I pour hot water through the barrels then lay everything on a towl they air dry very fast being hot, wipe down with bore butter and reassemble.
I use preloaded paper cartridges which allows more actual shooting time, every few cyl. loads I'll dump some grease into the front of two cylenders to keep everything lubed otherwise its just the .454 ball with 10 grns of cream of wheat under it then 35 grns of FFFG in each cartridge the cream of wheat is simply to prevent chainfires and to place the ball at the top of the Cyl.
As far as corrosion, in BP its not from corrosive salts as with milsurp ammo, its caused by the BP residue which draws moisture from the air causing rust this is why substitute BP is considered non corrosive ever notice how fireplace tools left where moisture is present rust so fast? the Charcoal draws moisture from the air very quikly this is why activated charcoal is used in filters etc... its also the part of BP that causes corrosion but then thats all corrosive salt does as well it draws moisture from the air creating rust...
I use preloaded paper cartridges which allows more actual shooting time, every few cyl. loads I'll dump some grease into the front of two cylenders to keep everything lubed otherwise its just the .454 ball with 10 grns of cream of wheat under it then 35 grns of FFFG in each cartridge the cream of wheat is simply to prevent chainfires and to place the ball at the top of the Cyl.
As far as corrosion, in BP its not from corrosive salts as with milsurp ammo, its caused by the BP residue which draws moisture from the air causing rust this is why substitute BP is considered non corrosive ever notice how fireplace tools left where moisture is present rust so fast? the Charcoal draws moisture from the air very quikly this is why activated charcoal is used in filters etc... its also the part of BP that causes corrosion but then thats all corrosive salt does as well it draws moisture from the air creating rust...
It can be about corrosive primers; there are still some corrosive caps around. I agree with dropping the cylinders in hot water then pouring hot water through them, but I strongly urge removing the nipples first. That way, you don't let rust or corrosion build up in the threads and make the nipples impossible to remove.
Put a little grease or anti-seize on the threads before reinstalling and just snug them up.
Jim
Put a little grease or anti-seize on the threads before reinstalling and just snug them up.
Jim
Dstorm,
The corrosiveness from BP is caused by salt residues. In particular potassium salts (same as with corrosive priming) from the saltpeter (which itself is a salt) and perhaps from acid compounds formed from the sulfur and nitrates. All of these are water soluble. I've seen tests of the residue, but I don't remember the composition offhand.
The residue itself is mostly just carbon and gunk. It can hold on to water too if enough is present, but cleaning with water removes salts and most loose residue. Most BP substitutes are as corrosive as BP and in some cases (Pyrodex) even more so. They are based on the same chemistry, just modified a bit. I know 777 isn't corrosive, but it's not typical of most BP subs.
Gary,
Elephant is some of the dirtiest powder I've ever tried. It fouls so bad that my smaller caliber guns required almost constant swabbing to remain shootable. It was really noticeable during cleaning also. It took a lot more work than Goex. It wasn't as powerful and it was less consistent. I don't know if I had a bad batch or what, but I've heard a lot of other folks grumble about it in the past.
This is what led to my comment about the powder quality of the day. I've always been confused about that, as there has been speculation that some powders of the day were more powerful than our modern equivelants. I wish I could remember the artical, but they were comparing the sight settings on some period guns and there's no way modern powders could duplicate the ballistics using the same charge weights. Other speculation has it that their powders were less powerful and more dirty, due to lower quality raw materials. I guess it's not much different than today, where we have cleaner and dirtier powders too.
The corrosiveness from BP is caused by salt residues. In particular potassium salts (same as with corrosive priming) from the saltpeter (which itself is a salt) and perhaps from acid compounds formed from the sulfur and nitrates. All of these are water soluble. I've seen tests of the residue, but I don't remember the composition offhand.
The residue itself is mostly just carbon and gunk. It can hold on to water too if enough is present, but cleaning with water removes salts and most loose residue. Most BP substitutes are as corrosive as BP and in some cases (Pyrodex) even more so. They are based on the same chemistry, just modified a bit. I know 777 isn't corrosive, but it's not typical of most BP subs.
Gary,
Elephant is some of the dirtiest powder I've ever tried. It fouls so bad that my smaller caliber guns required almost constant swabbing to remain shootable. It was really noticeable during cleaning also. It took a lot more work than Goex. It wasn't as powerful and it was less consistent. I don't know if I had a bad batch or what, but I've heard a lot of other folks grumble about it in the past.
This is what led to my comment about the powder quality of the day. I've always been confused about that, as there has been speculation that some powders of the day were more powerful than our modern equivelants. I wish I could remember the artical, but they were comparing the sight settings on some period guns and there's no way modern powders could duplicate the ballistics using the same charge weights. Other speculation has it that their powders were less powerful and more dirty, due to lower quality raw materials. I guess it's not much different than today, where we have cleaner and dirtier powders too.
Imaginos
Member
Depends On the Gun
I had a '58 Remmie clone that would foul out in 20-30 rounds. I have yet to have my Ruger Old Army foul out even after 60. It just gets hard to fully seat the caps on the nipples. I used mostly GOEX fffg or ffg + wonder wad.
Bill Hickock was rumored to fire, clean, and reload his revolvers every morning, but who knows for sure?
The Little House book describes the boiling water cleaning method in very good detail. I disagree with the description of the loading process that follows, but each gun is a law unto itself, and if that was what that particular gun needed then so be it.
I have read accounts of the fur trappers of the early 1800s not taking very good care of their guns, and having to have the barrels "freshened" due to rust and patch wear. Since people don't change much, I would say that just like today you have those people who care for their tools and those that don't.
I was taught to clean all guns after every use. I still do it. It bothers me on a subconscious level to leave any gun "dirty". Even my modern guns get a good going over after a shooting session. Maybe I over clean, but I have not seen any problems from it.
I had a '58 Remmie clone that would foul out in 20-30 rounds. I have yet to have my Ruger Old Army foul out even after 60. It just gets hard to fully seat the caps on the nipples. I used mostly GOEX fffg or ffg + wonder wad.
Bill Hickock was rumored to fire, clean, and reload his revolvers every morning, but who knows for sure?
The Little House book describes the boiling water cleaning method in very good detail. I disagree with the description of the loading process that follows, but each gun is a law unto itself, and if that was what that particular gun needed then so be it.
I have read accounts of the fur trappers of the early 1800s not taking very good care of their guns, and having to have the barrels "freshened" due to rust and patch wear. Since people don't change much, I would say that just like today you have those people who care for their tools and those that don't.
I was taught to clean all guns after every use. I still do it. It bothers me on a subconscious level to leave any gun "dirty". Even my modern guns get a good going over after a shooting session. Maybe I over clean, but I have not seen any problems from it.
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