I have been muzzleloading for a couple of years now,but have only shot pyrodex and some 777.Is real black powder that much different?Am I missing out on something better?Is it worth driving 150 miles for???I'm a long way from any where,but thats a good thing.
Black Powder / Pyrodex
- Thread starter Poppy270
- Start date
- Status
Cap n Ball
Member
It is different from the synthetics. It has a different effect on ballistics and comes in different grades for different purposes. Goex is different from other makes of 'genuine' black powder. Some people prefer one over another. It smells and burns different from Pyrodex. Some of the fellows here will tell you from their experience why they like one kind over another. I use Goex simply because its readily available here and I'm used to it...and I like the smell.
kid_couteau
Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 209
Hi
I have used all three of the powders and I have found I like true blackpowder the best.
Pyrodex is much more corrosive than black
777 is much more expensive but cleaner and not corrosive
So in short if I was just doing a little shooting I would use 777 cause I wouldnt mind the price for a little.
But overall I love blackpowder the most
Kid
I have used all three of the powders and I have found I like true blackpowder the best.
Pyrodex is much more corrosive than black
777 is much more expensive but cleaner and not corrosive
So in short if I was just doing a little shooting I would use 777 cause I wouldnt mind the price for a little.
But overall I love blackpowder the most
Kid
Across The Pond
Member
Consistency...
I don't use real BP, but my understanding is that in most cases (but not all) it is more consistent in terms of velocity - so improving accuracy. Certainly H777 is much more susceptible to compression: squeeze it too hard and it will often give wildly varying velocities. BP and Pyro are much less fussy in this regard.
BP needs a special licence here in the UK, so I only use H777 and Pyrodex. Serious bullseye shooters here do go through the licence hassle and swear by the real deal.
Regards, ATP
I don't use real BP, but my understanding is that in most cases (but not all) it is more consistent in terms of velocity - so improving accuracy. Certainly H777 is much more susceptible to compression: squeeze it too hard and it will often give wildly varying velocities. BP and Pyro are much less fussy in this regard.
BP needs a special licence here in the UK, so I only use H777 and Pyrodex. Serious bullseye shooters here do go through the licence hassle and swear by the real deal.
Regards, ATP
eastwood44mag
Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
I hate Pyrodex. It's cheap (relatively), and more stable than BP, but as soon as my supply is gone, I'm never going back to it.
MCgunner
Member
I wouldn't lose sleep over not using BP. I shoot nothing, but Pyrodex and have never had a big problem with it. Thing is, I don't even know of a gun shop in this state that has BP due to shipping and storage regulations. I reckon "Collectors Firearms" on Fondren in Houston might or maybe one of the bigger Carter Country locations, but certainly not in Port Lavaca, population 12,000 or so and not even in Victoria, population 60K or so 30 miles up the road.
Pyrodex is affordable and available. I think I might try so 777, but I'm not real keen on it just from what I've been hearing. But, it might be good on extended hunting trips where the gun might not get a good cleaning for a 7 hour ride home or something. With Pyrodex, I clean ASAP if I have to do it in a gas station bathroom.
But, same goes for black powder, very corrosive stuff. I think I still have an old partial can of DuPont out in the shop, 30+ years old. Probably wouldn't even fire anymore as humid as the summers are here and that stuff has seen a number of summers and two hurricanes. LOL
Pyrodex is affordable and available. I think I might try so 777, but I'm not real keen on it just from what I've been hearing. But, it might be good on extended hunting trips where the gun might not get a good cleaning for a 7 hour ride home or something. With Pyrodex, I clean ASAP if I have to do it in a gas station bathroom.
But, same goes for black powder, very corrosive stuff. I think I still have an old partial can of DuPont out in the shop, 30+ years old. Probably wouldn't even fire anymore as humid as the summers are here and that stuff has seen a number of summers and two hurricanes. LOLI tried 30=50 year old Dupont 2fg in a Remington. It was just a consistent as Goex but about 50 fps slower. Had a small amount of Dupont in the 1924 lable can. Don't know when that can went out of use (oval) It was 2fg and was as consistent as new Goex but again abou 50 fps slower.
Pulled some 90 year old 3f from some cartridges and shot them in a 61 Navy. It was 40 or more fps FASTER than Goex 3f. this was strange because when I made direct comparisons in the old 44 special cartridges, the new goex was about 50 fps faster than the original powder. So, my data was at odds with itself. In general though I am finding decades old black powder, for what ever reason to be a bit slower than modern goex. the extreme spreads are about equal. There is really no way to know if the powder has lost just a little power over the years or if its manufacturing variables that make them different.
Pulled some 90 year old 3f from some cartridges and shot them in a 61 Navy. It was 40 or more fps FASTER than Goex 3f. this was strange because when I made direct comparisons in the old 44 special cartridges, the new goex was about 50 fps faster than the original powder. So, my data was at odds with itself. In general though I am finding decades old black powder, for what ever reason to be a bit slower than modern goex. the extreme spreads are about equal. There is really no way to know if the powder has lost just a little power over the years or if its manufacturing variables that make them different.
Just remembered. a friend bought one of the first cans of pyrodex p to hit this town. Probably a year after it came out since that's how things go here. The can is mainly green. He opened it, shot some of it and lost it in his garage. He didn't like it very much and you could buy black powder here then. Last year we shot some of it. It was a little slower than a new can we had but the extreme spread was about the same.
No Pyrodex for me.
Pyrodex combustion products are actually more corrosive than real black powder.
When chronographing my BP .44 Special and .45-70 loads, I find velocity spread to be minimal, usually within 10-15 fps from round to round. That isn't going to happen with Pyrodex, nor with smokeless. That consistency is probably why I can generate MOA groups out of my 1874 Sharps using good old black powder.
I like the smell of black powder, too, especially when I use my homemade bullet lube, consisting of lard, beeswax, and Crisco.
Luckily, I have a dealer of real BP about 45 miles from me. He spends the extra money on insurance so he can stock the real thing. I usually come home with about 5 pounds each time I visit, plus a bunch of swaged spitzers for my Sharps.
Plus, one can have Goex BP ordered online and shipped direct to their doorstep, if need be.
Pyrodex combustion products are actually more corrosive than real black powder.
When chronographing my BP .44 Special and .45-70 loads, I find velocity spread to be minimal, usually within 10-15 fps from round to round. That isn't going to happen with Pyrodex, nor with smokeless. That consistency is probably why I can generate MOA groups out of my 1874 Sharps using good old black powder.
I like the smell of black powder, too, especially when I use my homemade bullet lube, consisting of lard, beeswax, and Crisco.
Luckily, I have a dealer of real BP about 45 miles from me. He spends the extra money on insurance so he can stock the real thing. I usually come home with about 5 pounds each time I visit, plus a bunch of swaged spitzers for my Sharps.
Plus, one can have Goex BP ordered online and shipped direct to their doorstep, if need be.
You guys who shoot the big black powder rifles are way beyond me when it comes to accuracy and load development. The difference in accuracy don't seem to be significant in the revolvers and caplock pistols but I don't see many black powder cartridges loaders likeing anything but black powder.
Plainmark
Member
Never touch the stuff..
I cannot use Pyrodex in a flintlock. The ignition point is too high for the ignition format. I COULD put some prime in the barrel first, then Pyrodex, but NAW..
From an ignition standpoint, and accuracy... when you understand your rifle's proclivity and preference for exact # of grains and of which powder, the satisfaction of being able to consistently split hairs, drive nails, shoot life-savers, rabbits, turkeys, deer and hogs is just about the same... HUGE!
Can we recommend powder providers here? I have a real winner up in Maine.
Plain
I cannot use Pyrodex in a flintlock. The ignition point is too high for the ignition format. I COULD put some prime in the barrel first, then Pyrodex, but NAW..
From an ignition standpoint, and accuracy... when you understand your rifle's proclivity and preference for exact # of grains and of which powder, the satisfaction of being able to consistently split hairs, drive nails, shoot life-savers, rabbits, turkeys, deer and hogs is just about the same... HUGE!
Can we recommend powder providers here? I have a real winner up in Maine.
Plain
sjohns
Member
recommend away. If I can find a good source that has a wide variety of powders, I'd be happy just knowing its there and available for when I can afford it.
We have to pay that hazmat fee, so I need to buy a bunch to make it worth my while.
We have to pay that hazmat fee, so I need to buy a bunch to make it worth my while.
MCgunner
Member
I'd buy some 2F if I didn't have to drive three hours one way and burn sixty to 80 bucks worth of 3 buck a gallon gas to get it... Availability has kept me burning pyrodex.
I don't have a problem with ignition on the hawkin since I put that thingy on in place of the nipple that takes a small rifle magnum primer. I like it, too, because it protects the ignition source from wet weather, a good thing when hunting in east Texas.
Availability has kept me burning pyrodex.I don't have a problem with ignition on the hawkin since I put that thingy on in place of the nipple that takes a small rifle magnum primer. I like it, too, because it protects the ignition source from wet weather, a good thing when hunting in east Texas.
Plainmark
Member
I get my powder from...
the Maine Powder House: J.R. Worthington Proprietor
[email protected]
http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/index.jsp
It is worth every cent and his prices are better than all the others I have sought. His price on Elephant and Swiss are very good. I can't say about GOEX because I use no products from them. The others have always worked and I don't change very fast.
Plain
the Maine Powder House: J.R. Worthington Proprietor
[email protected]
http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/index.jsp
It is worth every cent and his prices are better than all the others I have sought. His price on Elephant and Swiss are very good. I can't say about GOEX because I use no products from them. The others have always worked and I don't change very fast.
Plain
- Status
