i am completely new to the bp world. i just sold my t/c omega and want to go strictly traditional. i have looked at all kinds of rifles over the past couple of weeks. i like the hawken style but do not need all the fancy "bling" that comes with them. the rifle that i like the best so far is the lyman trade rifle. i need something in left hand 50 cal. the little info i got from my uncle is get something with 1:48" twist and use pyrodex loose powder. so any info on guns and loads for target and hunting would be great. i know you guys get this all the time but like i said i am a cap n ball virgin lol.
black powder virgin needs help????
- Thread starter sdhunter
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Sniderman
Member
Welcome to the BP world!
IMHO you're on the right track. I have a Couple of Lyman rifles that I really enjoy and have served me very well. You may want to look into the Deerstalker, You don't say if you're going to hunt with it, but the "furniture" (Forend cap, trigger guard, buttplate, on the trade rifle is all shiny brass, a little gaudy and flashy in the deer woods. The deerstalker is all black, less chance of the shine getting you busted by Bambis sharp eyesight. Also, for my old bones, the rubber buttplate on the Deerstalker is gentler on the shoulder, Hard iron/brass plates have a little more "Bite".
I still shoot real BP, Goex FFG, but Loose Pyrodex is probably the right powder to start with. The pellets, while easier to load won't let you tailor your load for your rifle.
My favorite load for my rifle is 85 grains of FFG behind a Thompson center 320 grain Maxi hunter conical.
I also shoot some 350 grain Minnie balls that are hand cast by a friend. Pushing them with 80 grains FFG.
Get some powder & loads and work out what shoots best in your rifle, get a buddy, go shooting and take notes.
Clean it! Oil it! The death of most coal burners is due to the owner not putting in enough brush time after shooting.
One thing, The Lymans come with a traditional wood ramrod, take that out, hang it on the wall and get yourself a good Fiberglass, aluminum, or composite rod to use in the rifle.
More than one shooter has been stabbed in the hand while loading with a wooden rod, the grain runs with the length of the rod and they can break like pungi stick while you're pushing a load down the barrel. I've seen it, Not good.
Now you can start buying all the "Possibles" you're going to want/need!
Have fun!
IMHO you're on the right track. I have a Couple of Lyman rifles that I really enjoy and have served me very well. You may want to look into the Deerstalker, You don't say if you're going to hunt with it, but the "furniture" (Forend cap, trigger guard, buttplate, on the trade rifle is all shiny brass, a little gaudy and flashy in the deer woods. The deerstalker is all black, less chance of the shine getting you busted by Bambis sharp eyesight. Also, for my old bones, the rubber buttplate on the Deerstalker is gentler on the shoulder, Hard iron/brass plates have a little more "Bite".
I still shoot real BP, Goex FFG, but Loose Pyrodex is probably the right powder to start with. The pellets, while easier to load won't let you tailor your load for your rifle.
My favorite load for my rifle is 85 grains of FFG behind a Thompson center 320 grain Maxi hunter conical.
I also shoot some 350 grain Minnie balls that are hand cast by a friend. Pushing them with 80 grains FFG.
Get some powder & loads and work out what shoots best in your rifle, get a buddy, go shooting and take notes.
Clean it! Oil it! The death of most coal burners is due to the owner not putting in enough brush time after shooting.
One thing, The Lymans come with a traditional wood ramrod, take that out, hang it on the wall and get yourself a good Fiberglass, aluminum, or composite rod to use in the rifle.
More than one shooter has been stabbed in the hand while loading with a wooden rod, the grain runs with the length of the rod and they can break like pungi stick while you're pushing a load down the barrel. I've seen it, Not good.
Now you can start buying all the "Possibles" you're going to want/need!
Have fun!
junkman_01
member
thanks for the reply sniderman, i used 777 pellets in the omega i had but did not like them. another question i have is what is the deal with the patch behind the ball and the different sizes of the patch. i would like to shoot balls because i am used to the over expensive powerbelt bullets and i like the price tag on the balls. the way i see it i could spend alot of time practicing with the rifle with balls and not burn a hole in my pocked book. i was also wondering if anyone knew any good web sites to find rifle kits and accesories.
arcticap
Member
Cabela's:
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/brow...CATEGORY_SEQ_104641380?WTz_l=SBC;cat104701680
Cain's Outdoor:
http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/
Dixie Gun Works:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22&osCsid=5f8fc102b45173a112fbe2256af27d33
MidSouth Supply:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/deptsearch2x.asp?dept=MUZZLELOADING&dept2=MUZZLELOADING RIFLES
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/brow...CATEGORY_SEQ_104641380?WTz_l=SBC;cat104701680
Cain's Outdoor:
http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/
Dixie Gun Works:
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22&osCsid=5f8fc102b45173a112fbe2256af27d33
MidSouth Supply:
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/deptsearch2x.asp?dept=MUZZLELOADING&dept2=MUZZLELOADING RIFLES
The patch is not just behind the ball; it surrounds it on all sides as well. It's a patch, as opposed to a wad.
Long rifle muzzleloader round balls are deliberately undersized for the bore - the patch forms the gas seal between the bore and the ball and imparts the spin from the rifling.
Example: .50 caliber long rifles generally use a .490 or .495 round ball; they are loaded with a patch approximately 1 1/4" in diameter so that the patch folds up around the sides of the ball when it's rammed down the barrel.
The patch thickness is one of the variables one must establish to obtain the best accuracy for your rifle. Patch material (it MUST NOT contain synthetic fibers - 100% cotton pillow ticking is best) is generally available in thicknesses from 0.005" to 0.020". The only requirement is that twice the patch thickness plus the ball diameter be larger than the groove diameter of your rifle.
Assuming a groove diameter of 0.500 and a .490 diameter ball, choose a patch material thicker than 0.005": 2x0.005+.490=.500. A typical load would be a 0.015" pillow ticking patch and a 0.490 ball, for a total diameter of 0.520. That may seem too tight, but the idea is to compress the patch into the groove so that it seals the ball and imparts the spin from the rifling.
With at least two different ball sizes (.490 & .495, for example), and several different patch thicknesses (0.005, 0.010, 0.015, 0.018, 0.020), plus the wide variation in powder loading available you can see the possibilities.
Each rifle (that's each individual rifle, not each rifle design) has it's own 'sweet spot' combination of variables that will provide the best accuracy; some have more than one. While we can all tell you what works best in our guns, nobody can predict what your gun will like; it may or may not be the same as ours. Your job is to try out the various combinations to see what yours likes.
By the way, don't expect a brand new rifle barrel to be ready to test for it's 'sweet spot'. They take some break in time. I usually expect to shoot up to 100 rounds before the barrel is ready to test. Some folks lap the barrels before they shoot to achieve the same state. Trying to group a new barrel can be very frustrating, so have some patience; put a hundred rounds down range just having fun before you get serious about accuracy.
swampgeek
Member
sdhunter I have a few articles and some info you might want to look at on Southern Muzzleloading to get you started in the right direction.
Southern Muzzleloading: Muzzleloading Reference Guide - Has alot of links to different mfgs, retailers and load charts, ballistics charts, its a good start on your search for info along with forums. By the way anyone else checking it out if you have anything I have missed, please contact me through the site so I can add it.
Also on the site there is some articles on cleaning sidelocks and other topics that might be of interest to you. I shoot a mix of traditional and modern so I am always adding articles for both. Not the end all, but I started the site to help people get pulled into the sport that I love and maybe help someone not make the mistakes I learned the hard way.
Good Luck...sorry you got bitten by the bug
Southern Muzzleloading: Muzzleloading Reference Guide - Has alot of links to different mfgs, retailers and load charts, ballistics charts, its a good start on your search for info along with forums. By the way anyone else checking it out if you have anything I have missed, please contact me through the site so I can add it.
Also on the site there is some articles on cleaning sidelocks and other topics that might be of interest to you. I shoot a mix of traditional and modern so I am always adding articles for both. Not the end all, but I started the site to help people get pulled into the sport that I love and maybe help someone not make the mistakes I learned the hard way.
Good Luck...sorry you got bitten by the bug
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wow, thanks for all the info guys, i hope i can get a rifle soon. i have been looking at the rifle kits hoping that they are not too tough to assemble. i have a family member that has put 2 kits together and says he will help me if i run into trouble. but i think i can become more familiar with the gun and have more pride in it if i get it in a kit.
rdstrain49
Member
sdhunter;
If you are in the western part of SD, I'd be happy to help you out. I shoot BP on a daily basis, provided the snow isn't too heavy, and the temp isn't too cold.
I shoot BP revolver, single shot pistol, traditional rifle, and an inline. Let me know if I can be of assistance.
If you are in the western part of SD, I'd be happy to help you out. I shoot BP on a daily basis, provided the snow isn't too heavy, and the temp isn't too cold.
I shoot BP revolver, single shot pistol, traditional rifle, and an inline. Let me know if I can be of assistance.
swampgeek
Member
sd I just finished my first kit, a pistol but it should give you some idea of what you have to look forward to. I will link below, I have to admit it was far easier than I thought.
Southern Muzzleloading: Kentucky Pistol Project
Southern Muzzleloading: Kentucky Pistol Project
rdstrain49, i am up in McLaughlin but do travel to the hills quite a bit. once i get one i might have to take you up on that offer thanks alot. for some reason the wife doesnt like the idea yet, but maybe if get her a few extra roses for valentines day i might be able to get it.
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