sanchezero
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2002
- Messages
- 555
Just returned from the 5 day pistol/carbine class.
In a nutshell, excellent facilities and great training. The big minus: while my certificate states '40 hours of pistol/carbine instruction', there was actually only about 30 hrs, including a coupla hrs of classroom.
The facilities are HUGE and theres alot of construction going on to make it larger. The bunkhouse is much nicer than I thought it would be, with a new pool table and plush couches in front of a big TV. Rooms were clean, showers were hot. Food was basic but good and plenty (no dinners and local food blows, so look fwd to a 1/2hr drive).
The class was attended by 12 people. Besides myself, there were 2 SWAT cops, one of which was also his dept's firearms instructor, an ex-SEAL who works for Blackwater's security division, a finance professor, a real estate agent, a doctor and five state department security guys. Everyone got along well.
The ranges we used for this class were great, but there was alot more that we didn't use: a 3 story ship simulator, a large shoot-town, a big 2 story shoothouse, a 1200 yd rifle range and several new ranges that were built for a big navy contract they recently got.
Our class started with an hour or so in the classroom talking about safety and shooting fundamentals. We moved to the 'paper' range and shot 3" dots at 7yds to set a baseline for the instructors. We did shot progressions on these for a bit, then did 8" dots both faster and from further back.
In the afternoon we moved to steel and stayed there for the rest of the pistol element. Their steel ranges included plate racks, poppers, movers and static targets. The format was to start a basic skill and add to it until it became fairly complex. When the class was rapidly shooting multiple targets there were shoot offs like a man on man steel competition. This carried thru the rest of the class. Each major skill set ended with a competition of some sort and alot of guys were pushed into shooting better than they ever had before.
The last day of pistol training was on the 'rogers range'. This is a collection of lanes with popup targets. There was an assortment of steel targets that had popup heads. All of it was computer controled so the instructors would adjust the number of targets and time they were exposed. We started off slowly and it built to a frenzy that was simply unshootable. This last bit was more of an object lesson to remind you that in the stress of an armed encounter there may be more info than you could actually process. It was a good point to make but I felt that it was a bit overdone and more of a way to kill time than anything else. Otherwise, the rogers range was great stuff.
At this point we got a bonus. The state dept guys had MP5s with them and everyone got to dump about 100 rnds of automatic fire on these pop up guys. It was pretty cool, as a coupla guys had never fired full auto before.
The next day we switched to carbines. About 2 hrs of classroom and then we zeroed. It went quickly. Everyone was done in time for lunch. Unfortunately is was raining pretty heavily and the wind was strong and gusty. We suited up and shot anyway, but it definately detracted from the fun. We started on paper but within a 1/2 hr the targets disintegrated so we went right to steel. The pistol skills were pretty much duplicated with the carbine. We just moved further back. We shot from a variety of shooting platforms and at a variety of targets. Movers, poppers, swingers etc were all mowed down. There were a coupla psuedo towers where we did barricade work and roll-over/roll-in prone, kneeling, support training et al.
The next day was nice weather wise and we picked up where we left off. Another bonus: the state dept guys and a SWAT guy had full auto M4s/M16s so we got to spend some more time blazing away.
Most training was done from 100yds in, but we spent a bit of time on top of a tower in the shoot-town shooting steel swingers out to about 400yds. Then it was back to the close in range where we ran some team drills involving alot of running and shooting at alot of targets and then the final shoot off course of fire. We were done at lunch.
After lunch and a 'graduation ceremony' (handshake and a certificate) we went back to the range for a free shoot. The instruction was done, but there was a bonus here as well. The instructors broke out a .50 Beowulf entry carbine for us to toy with. That thing is a monster. Alot of the poppers on the carbine course take a significant amount of concentrated 5.56 fire to knock 'em down. The Beowulf pounds 'em into the dirt with 1 shot. Has recoil comparable to a 12ga, FYI. Everything good (and bad, I'm sure) about the AR platform with a 325grn bullet moving about as fast (I think, not sure about the FPS).
All in all, the instruction and training were top notch. This was NOT a tactical course but a skill building one. While we did cover some issues with cover, and talk breifly about other tactical concerns it was mostly about shooting better. I'd say their format is excellent in this regard. I watched several students improve by leaps and bounds and everyone felt they'd improved to some degree.
However, everyone was also disappointed by the short days. We met at the lodge/HQ at 8:30 and were shooting by 9. An hour for lunch and we were done at 4. The last day, we were done by noon, effectively making this a short 4 1/2 day course. This IS standard policy at this time.
Everyone was happy with the training tho and most said they would be back. There was alot of shooting done and I think most of the guys wouldn't have wanted to shoot for 2 more hours if it was available.
With the short hours in mind, I can recommend Blackwater's training to just about anyone.
In a nutshell, excellent facilities and great training. The big minus: while my certificate states '40 hours of pistol/carbine instruction', there was actually only about 30 hrs, including a coupla hrs of classroom.
The facilities are HUGE and theres alot of construction going on to make it larger. The bunkhouse is much nicer than I thought it would be, with a new pool table and plush couches in front of a big TV. Rooms were clean, showers were hot. Food was basic but good and plenty (no dinners and local food blows, so look fwd to a 1/2hr drive).
The class was attended by 12 people. Besides myself, there were 2 SWAT cops, one of which was also his dept's firearms instructor, an ex-SEAL who works for Blackwater's security division, a finance professor, a real estate agent, a doctor and five state department security guys. Everyone got along well.
The ranges we used for this class were great, but there was alot more that we didn't use: a 3 story ship simulator, a large shoot-town, a big 2 story shoothouse, a 1200 yd rifle range and several new ranges that were built for a big navy contract they recently got.
Our class started with an hour or so in the classroom talking about safety and shooting fundamentals. We moved to the 'paper' range and shot 3" dots at 7yds to set a baseline for the instructors. We did shot progressions on these for a bit, then did 8" dots both faster and from further back.
In the afternoon we moved to steel and stayed there for the rest of the pistol element. Their steel ranges included plate racks, poppers, movers and static targets. The format was to start a basic skill and add to it until it became fairly complex. When the class was rapidly shooting multiple targets there were shoot offs like a man on man steel competition. This carried thru the rest of the class. Each major skill set ended with a competition of some sort and alot of guys were pushed into shooting better than they ever had before.
The last day of pistol training was on the 'rogers range'. This is a collection of lanes with popup targets. There was an assortment of steel targets that had popup heads. All of it was computer controled so the instructors would adjust the number of targets and time they were exposed. We started off slowly and it built to a frenzy that was simply unshootable. This last bit was more of an object lesson to remind you that in the stress of an armed encounter there may be more info than you could actually process. It was a good point to make but I felt that it was a bit overdone and more of a way to kill time than anything else. Otherwise, the rogers range was great stuff.
At this point we got a bonus. The state dept guys had MP5s with them and everyone got to dump about 100 rnds of automatic fire on these pop up guys. It was pretty cool, as a coupla guys had never fired full auto before.
The next day we switched to carbines. About 2 hrs of classroom and then we zeroed. It went quickly. Everyone was done in time for lunch. Unfortunately is was raining pretty heavily and the wind was strong and gusty. We suited up and shot anyway, but it definately detracted from the fun. We started on paper but within a 1/2 hr the targets disintegrated so we went right to steel. The pistol skills were pretty much duplicated with the carbine. We just moved further back. We shot from a variety of shooting platforms and at a variety of targets. Movers, poppers, swingers etc were all mowed down. There were a coupla psuedo towers where we did barricade work and roll-over/roll-in prone, kneeling, support training et al.
The next day was nice weather wise and we picked up where we left off. Another bonus: the state dept guys and a SWAT guy had full auto M4s/M16s so we got to spend some more time blazing away.
Most training was done from 100yds in, but we spent a bit of time on top of a tower in the shoot-town shooting steel swingers out to about 400yds. Then it was back to the close in range where we ran some team drills involving alot of running and shooting at alot of targets and then the final shoot off course of fire. We were done at lunch.
After lunch and a 'graduation ceremony' (handshake and a certificate) we went back to the range for a free shoot. The instruction was done, but there was a bonus here as well. The instructors broke out a .50 Beowulf entry carbine for us to toy with. That thing is a monster. Alot of the poppers on the carbine course take a significant amount of concentrated 5.56 fire to knock 'em down. The Beowulf pounds 'em into the dirt with 1 shot. Has recoil comparable to a 12ga, FYI. Everything good (and bad, I'm sure) about the AR platform with a 325grn bullet moving about as fast (I think, not sure about the FPS).
All in all, the instruction and training were top notch. This was NOT a tactical course but a skill building one. While we did cover some issues with cover, and talk breifly about other tactical concerns it was mostly about shooting better. I'd say their format is excellent in this regard. I watched several students improve by leaps and bounds and everyone felt they'd improved to some degree.
However, everyone was also disappointed by the short days. We met at the lodge/HQ at 8:30 and were shooting by 9. An hour for lunch and we were done at 4. The last day, we were done by noon, effectively making this a short 4 1/2 day course. This IS standard policy at this time.
Everyone was happy with the training tho and most said they would be back. There was alot of shooting done and I think most of the guys wouldn't have wanted to shoot for 2 more hours if it was available.
With the short hours in mind, I can recommend Blackwater's training to just about anyone.
