blemished bullets-have some questions.

[Axis II]

Hi guys sorry about all the questions lately but hunting seasons almost here and I've got a lot to get done shooting wise. I found blemished 300gr 45-70 bullets that appear to be the hornady bullets i currently use for a great price but i have a concern. It says slight discoloration of the jacket, may or may not have a cannelure or its in the wrong place. In another sentence is says that the bullets should be checked for proper diameter. I could care less about color but what about the cannelure being gone or in the wrong spot? I'm shooting these in a marlin so they must be crimped.

Take a chance at $16-50? Money is very, very tight right now otherwise i would just chalk it up to a loss if they aren't right. I also found some 44 blemished bullets too and same thing with them. Just trying not to waste money but cant see how its possible to even sell them with wrong cannelures cause that would defeat load data OAL.

 

[horsey300]

Hi guys sorry about all the questions lately but hunting seasons almost here and I've got a lot to get done shooting wise. I found blemished 300gr 45-70 bullets that appear to be the hornady bullets i currently use for a great price but i have a concern. It says slight discoloration of the jacket, may or may not have a cannelure or its in the wrong place. In another sentence is says that the bullets should be checked for proper diameter. I could care less about color but what about the cannelure being gone or in the wrong spot? I'm shooting these in a marlin so they must be crimped.

Take a chance at $16-50? Money is very, very tight right now otherwise i would just chalk it up to a loss if they aren't right. I also found some 44 blemished bullets too and same thing with them. Just trying not to waste money but cant see how its possible to even sell them with wrong cannelures cause that would defeat load data OAL.

Personally, I'd go for it, if the cannelure is in the wrong spot (depending on how far off obviously) you can adjust seating depth and loads as well, I say buy a batch, if you can work with em, score! And buy some more, if not,you're only out the $16, (which is still 16 I understand, but in this game that's a small gamble) and you can still run them non crimped with good neck tension single shot for practice purposes. I've personally found that that is just a generic disclaimer that is thrown on all of hornadys blemishes to cover all bases.

 

[Axis II]

Personally, I'd go for it, if the cannelure is in the wrong spot (depending on how far off obviously) you can adjust seating depth and loads as well, I say buy a batch, if you can work with em, score! And buy some more, if not,you're only out the $16, (which is still 16 I understand, but in this game that's a small gamble) and you can still run them non crimped with good neck tension single shot for practice purposes. I've personally found that that is just a generic disclaimer that is thrown on all of hornadys blemishes to cover all bases.

Thanks, Incase you guys haven't noticed in the last two years i don't like to gamble. I also found some .224 I've been wanting to try but always stuck with what worked cause of price.

 

[horsey300]

Thanks, Incase you guys haven't noticed in the last two years i don't like to gamble. I also found some .224 I've been wanting to try but always stuck with what worked cause of price.

I do understand that, all I'm saying is, if they don't work for your field loads, you can still have cheap practice fodder and save the expensive stuff for when you really need it. Again hornadys warnings are generic, but just experimenting with a new bullet or powder or combo is a gamble in itself. At least this way, since they're essentially the same bullet, you'll still win with cheap plinking replicas even if you lose. When I'm curious about trying a new load for a rifle, I buy a blem/overrun/2ND batch if it's available to keep from paying full price if the bullet doesn't meet expectations and then, either way CHEAP paper/pumpkin killers are always on hand as well.

 

[hdwhit]

My experience with blemished bullets is that they are exactly that; cosmetically imperfect. The other disclaimers are there because these are being sold as "less than perfect" and the seller has no guarantee at what point the manufacturer stopped the inspection process. I routinely buy blemished and factory second bullets from Midway, Midsouth and others. I take the time to inspect every one. I do find bullets that are not usable, but it runs about 3% of the order and I save a lot more than a 3% discount.

 

[hdwhit]

The last batch of 250 blemished bullets I bought had 3 bad bullets. When I soaked the bullets in 1 tablespoon Lemishine in a pint of water (very high concentration) for five minutes followed by a couple hours in walnut media, I couldn't tell them from my first quality bullets.

 

[mdi]

If the brass/jacket is discolored, fine, I'd use them. As far as diameter needing to be checked, nope I'd pass. I like to check my components but the need to measure each bullet is a bit too much for me. For a 45-70 in a levergun, a good crimp is needed and if the cannalure is in different places, it would be difficult to get a decent crimp. You can inspect, weigh and measure each bullet, and check placement of the cannalure, if you want. But even if my targets are imaginary T-Rex monsters, I like my ammo to be as consistent as possible. For this batch, I'd pass...

I've purchased Nosler seconds, just 100 the first time and I inspected each bullet to find out why they were seconds. After I determined they had "ragged" hollow point mouths and shot as good as "normal" Nosler 155 gr. HPBT, I purchased more and load them for my Garand...

 

[Axis II]

If the brass/jacket is discolored, fine, I'd use them. As far as diameter needing to be checked, nope I'd pass. I like to check my components but the need to measure each bullet is a bit too much for me. For a 45-70 in a levergun, a good crimp is needed and if the cannalure is in different places, it would be difficult to get a decent crimp. You can inspect, weigh and measure each bullet, and check placement of the cannalure, if you want. But even if my targets are imaginary T-Rex monsters, I like my ammo to be as consistent as possible. For this batch, I'd pass...

I've purchased Nosler seconds, just 100 the first time and I inspected each bullet to find out why they were seconds. After I determined they had "ragged" hollow point mouths and shot as good as "normal" Nosler 155 gr. HPBT, I purchased more and load them for my Garand...

I was concerned about the cannelure the most. I just looked through several of them and they all say the same disclaimer. I might hop on midway chat and see if they will reveal the exact info.

 

[cougar1717]

I do not buy what appear to be blemished hornady bullets anymore. Some people get good batches and some get bad and you don't know how blemished a particular lot is until you open the box. That's why blems have mixed reviews - some people get bullets with nothing wrong with them, some get a lot of unusable ones. If you wait for people to comment or complain in the reviews, they're usually sold out already.
Please realize that with the hornady blems, these are not always just jacket discoloration or wrong cannelure. They could be inconsistent diameter or other out of spec problem. What usually happens is that the tooling breaks/wears out or there is an obvious QC problem that can't be sold as 1st quality. That batch is separated with the adjacent batches until the problem is fixed and 1st quality product is produced. The manufacturer isn't going to pay anyone to separate the good ones from the bad ones - they're just going to sell the lots to someone who will discount. Even ten years ago, I thought the blems were reasonable - 50% of retail and if you had to throw away 5% or so, no big deal. The last few years have had some real complaints. I got some where the boattail was only formed on half of the bullet. If it's a polymer tipped bullet, the problem is usually with the tip - if one is even there. At 70% retail and what I experienced - a 10% scrap rate, I would not purchase again. These may be better or worse - you don't know until you open the box.
Additionally, in a couple of weeks once deer season is over, many will discount some hornady 1st rate bullets anyway. I probably would just wait for a sale on 1sts. Most people "need" bullets right now before deer season, and a high demand time is the easiest time to sell blems.

Doom and gloom aside, I have had very good experiences with nosler blems. They do cost more to begin with, but I have never had an unusable bullet purchasing those.

 

[Walkalong]

I bought some blemished .32 bullets and half of them were undersized. Kind of turned me off of blemished bullets. Up until then I had been satisfied with the various blemished bullets I had bought, most of which were perfect. I did recently purchase some of the X-Treme "blemished" bullets on sale after reports they were good to go.

 

[Laphroaig]

I've bought some of the Midway blems in the past. One batch of 150 gr. SST's must have been run while setting up the cannelure, and they varied quite a bit. I don't crimp those, so it wasn't that big of a deal to me, and they shot reasonably well. If you attempted to crimp them, however, you would probably waste more time and bullets sorting them to make it worth while.

I do check their site from time to time, and have noticed recently that the prices aren't much better than factory new. I'd pass if I were you.

 

[Laphroaig]

Drat!! After posting above I checked Midway. I just bought 5 boxes of 30 cal match bullet blems for $105 (free shipping over $99). Cancel my remark about

aren't much better than factory new

.

I figure I'm saving about a nickel per bullet over similar bullets I bought last summer. Some of these are Amax's and other are BTHP's. I've bought these blems in the past and have been satisfied. Lets hope that doesn't change.

 

[Axis II]

I checked with midway customer service and was told "MOST OF THE TIME ITS JUST A COLOR VARIATION AND HE COULD NOT TELL ME ANYTHING ELSE" I used the chat function and immediately after he said that he ended the chat. Kind of put me off on that one like they were hiding something?

I would be saving about $7-50rds so think I'm going to pass. They had some 62gr FMJ BT I wanted to try also but I think ill pass cause it seems to be too much headache. I tried getting through to midway all morning before posting this and everyone was busy until about 4pm I got an answer.

 

[[email protected]]

Given that the regular price is around $22 it's not a lot of savings your missing out on. Plus the fact that your going to use them for hunting, do you really want to chance it? Yes it's a 45 caliber hole going in, and still 45 caliber going out if it doesn't expand. The picture of the bullet in question looks exactly like the Hornady bullets I have, so there no question it's a Hornady bullet. I bought some blemished 180 grain HP 40 caliber bullets from midway years ago. They were almost just like the XTP bullets I had. The only difference was that the Hollow Point cavity was shallower, and the point was not formed as well. I could not get the Blemished XTP bullets to expand even at 10mm velocity. Of course I used wet newspaper to test, but I tested alongside the first rate XTPs. The first rate ones opened up nicely and came to a stop within the media. The seconds sailed right through due to them not expanding.
I wouldn't be too hard on Midway about them being vague about the bullets. It's my understanding that they cannot reveal who made the bullets. What Marlin Lever gun do you have? Mine is the guide gun. Right now I'm liking a 350 grain cast with trail boss powder. I loaded some ladder loads with Reloader 7, SR4759 (yes I have some), and Varget. I'm using new starline brass and CCI LR primers with the 300 grain Hornady HP bullet. I'm loading in the 1500 fps to 1600 fps load range in the trapdoor load data section of Hornady manual. Maybe we an compare notes and save each other some bullets.

 

[Axis II]

Given that the regular price is around $22 it's not a lot of savings your missing out on. Plus the fact that your going to use them for hunting, do you really want to chance it? Yes it's a 45 caliber hole going in, and still 45 caliber going out if it doesn't expand. The picture of the bullet in question looks exactly like the Hornady bullets I have, so there no question it's a Hornady bullet. I bought some blemished 180 grain HP 40 caliber bullets from midway years ago. They were almost just like the XTP bullets I had. The only difference was that the Hollow Point cavity was shallower, and the point was not formed as well. I could not get the Blemished XTP bullets to expand even at 10mm velocity. Of course I used wet newspaper to test, but I tested alongside the first rate XTPs. The first rate ones opened up nicely and came to a stop within the media. The seconds sailed right through due to them not expanding.
I wouldn't be too hard on Midway about them being vague about the bullets. It's my understanding that they cannot reveal who made the bullets. What Marlin Lever gun do you have? Mine is the guide gun. Right now I'm liking a 350 grain cast with trail boss powder. I loaded some ladder loads with Reloader 7, SR4759 (yes I have some), and Varget. I'm using new starline brass and CCI LR primers with the 300 grain Hornady HP bullet. I'm loading in the 1500 fps to 1600 fps load range in the trapdoor load data section of Hornady manual. Maybe we an compare notes and save each other some bullets.

1895 22'' barrel. I just started loading for it and went with Hornady marlin data from start to medium last night. I loaded up some start loads of it with imr 4198, cci LR, starline brass and got 3 shots in an inch at 100yards which I thought wasn't bad. haven't fired past 40grs of powder yet but will see this week.

If I did the blems they would just be for load workups and new purchased to hunt. I was a little hard on midway the way he ended the chat after the question. I was more worried about them being undersized.

 

[illinoisburt]

Get a Lee Factory Crimp dies for the 45-70 if you are worried about the cannelure. It's one of their collet dies and will crimp it tight pretty much anywhere on the bullet. People swear by them or at them but they work regardless.

 

[Dudedog]

In this case for a small QTY for hunting when money is tight I don't know if I would take the gamble for 50/100 bullets.
For larger QTYs of .224 bullets I might try it.
I had good results with 62gr Federal Fusion pulls I got from RMR. Snuffy did an expansion test on them and they did well. (currently out of stock)
Thing to remember about Midway (who I buy a lot of stuff from) is you do pay shipping on bullets and lots of bullets are heavy.
One reason I like to order from RMR is free shipping. (and the 5% discount)

 

[Axis II]

In this case for a small QTY for hunting when money is tight I don't know if I would take the gamble for 50/100 bullets.
For larger QTYs of .224 bullets I might try it.
I had good results with 62gr Federal Fusion pulls I got from RMR. Snuffy did an expansion test on them and they did well. (currently out of stock)
Thing to remember about Midway (who I buy a lot of stuff from) is you do pay shipping on bullets and lots of bullets are heavy.
One reason I like to order from RMR is free shipping. (and the 5% discount)

I've figured out how to cheat it with free shipping targets . the 458, 224 and 452 bullets with free shipping item shipping was $7-9. Just make sure you don't let that secret out on the internet!

 

[Dudedog]

 

[[email protected]]

You reminded me that I have some IMR4198 that I can try. I haven't shot any of my ladder loads yet. I put off getting a hunting load together for my Marlin as other projects and obligations got in the way. It hit me the other day that deer season is right around the corner so I got busy loading some, but that's as far as I got. Hopefully Thursday will be the day for me to see what it will do. I haven't shot it beyond 25 yards with my cast loads, and I'm fearful that mine suffers from the canted front sight that Marlin is know for. I hate to scope a lever gun, but I may have to this one.
I was planning to stay within trap door load levels with my loads. Only because of an old shoulder injury that gives me issues every now and then. My observations have been that even with the light trail boss cast bullet loads, the bullet will go through a Willow log end to end that's about 10 inches long, and still go into the soft dirt berm another 12 plus inches. Of course willow wood is soft but I do believe that I would be ok on penetration for deer even at this load. You do have the advantage velocity wise with the longer barrel on your 1895, but I don't think that the deer will be able to tell the difference. That is an awesome group ( in my opinion) with your 4198 load. That kind of accuracy I would call it quits. Plus the bullets are already .458 so your not going likely going to get an 1/2 inch group out of it.
I will add a plus 1 on illinoisburt's suggestion on the lee collet factory crimp die. No chance of buckling the case when trying to crimp the round. I would have given a plus 2 if we were talking about 44 mag ammo.

 

[Slamfire]

If you buy "blemished bullets" weigh the things. These are factory seconds that failed QC. I bought thousands, (I think it was 13,000 168 SMK seconds) shot them all up, except for the bullets that were off by several grains. You will find 150ish grain bullets, some 173ish grain bullets, in 168 seconds. Something went wrong with the cores. If you weight sort your seconds they will undoubtedly shoot to your satisfaction.

 

[Axis II]

You reminded me that I have some IMR4198 that I can try. I haven't shot any of my ladder loads yet. I put off getting a hunting load together for my Marlin as other projects and obligations got in the way. It hit me the other day that deer season is right around the corner so I got busy loading some, but that's as far as I got. Hopefully Thursday will be the day for me to see what it will do. I haven't shot it beyond 25 yards with my cast loads, and I'm fearful that mine suffers from the canted front sight that Marlin is know for. I hate to scope a lever gun, but I may have to this one.
I was planning to stay within trap door load levels with my loads. Only because of an old shoulder injury that gives me issues every now and then. My observations have been that even with the light trail boss cast bullet loads, the bullet will go through a Willow log end to end that's about 10 inches long, and still go into the soft dirt berm another 12 plus inches. Of course willow wood is soft but I do believe that I would be ok on penetration for deer even at this load. You do have the advantage velocity wise with the longer barrel on your 1895, but I don't think that the deer will be able to tell the difference. That is an awesome group ( in my opinion) with your 4198 load. That kind of accuracy I would call it quits. Plus the bullets are already .458 so your not going likely going to get an 1/2 inch group out of it.
I will add a plus 1 on illinoisburt's suggestion on the lee collet factory crimp die. No chance of buckling the case when trying to crimp the round. I would have given a plus 2 if we were talking about 44 mag ammo.

Only reason i am pushing them with marlin data is incase i do have to make the 150yard shot a little flatter. Last year at a buddies place we pulled through the pasture and there was a 150'' buck standing in the cut corn with a couple doe and he ranged like 150yards. I almost took a poke with my single shot 45-70 but decided not too. Also would like to compile data for it. With 223 i hit several accuracy nodes with workups and use the lower load for paper and the higher load for varmints.