Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

blow torch, water and brass cases

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Eb1, Apr 23, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,010
    Location:
    USA
    I just saw a commercial with ol'man potterfield (no disrespect), and he was heating cases with a torch while the other half was in water.

    any idea what this is about?
     
  2. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    22,063
    he's attempting to anneal the cases. he wants to make the necks softer w/o changing the metal around the head of the case in order to get more life out of them. brass hardens as it is worked (fired, resized) and the necks eventually split


    and by "attempting" i mean he's probably accomplishing nothing
     
  3. Mt Shooter

    Mt Shooter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Montana
    He is annealing them, once they get to a certain temp you knock it over into the water I believe is how it works. Not sure how you tell what the temp is unless he is looking for a color change or something.
     
  4. 74sharps

    74sharps Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Central Arkansas
    Color is what is being watched. I've been looking into that same thing for my .41LC. Brass runs a bit more than I care to pay and can be fire formed from .38SPL. easy enough.
     
  5. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,010
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks, everyone.

    I wonder if that is why some of my PRVI Partisan and others are different colors sometimes.
     
  6. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    22,063
    yeah, lots of new brass is annealed and has a odd discoloration around the neck.

    i'd consider this before doing the "knock it over in water" method. http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
     
  7. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
    :)
    ...to slow on the keyboard for me...
     
  8. kelbro

    kelbro Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,264
    Location:
    Desert Southwest
    ALL new bottleneck rifle brass is annealed. Some manufacturers just polish it before they package it.

    Annealing, like a lot of things, can do more harm than good without the proper tools.
     
  9. qajaq59

    qajaq59 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,375
    Location:
    S. C. Florida
    It's not hard to do, but if you're going to start annealing, read up on it and practice on some scrap brass before attacking your good cases. It takes a little knowledge and practice to get it done right.
     
  10. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    10,123
    Location:
    Northern Indiana
    Go to Varmint Al's site to find out how it's done.

    IIRC, most all commercial cases are annealed before their first loading. On some military brass and commercial brass in very large calibers, you'll see the heat marks on the brass.

    I hand form brass for my .357 Herrett and anneal it. Pretty easy to do.
     
  11. Floppy_D

    Floppy_D Member In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,156
    Location:
    NAS Pensacola
    Good article, taliv.
     
  12. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    9,081
    A friend of mine uses this technique on 300 Weatherby cases. Using handheld propane torch not Oxy/Act. As above, in 1” of water, heat to color change and tip as you are just annealing the neck and shoulder. He clams cases last over twice as long when annealed every other loading.
     
  13. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    That's the way I have done it for about 40 some years.

    I very seldom anneal anything anymore, but used too a lot when using GI 30-06 brass to make several smaller calibers.

    Heat to light red and tip over in the water.

    Contrary to some folks opinion, it works just fine.

    Without it, case loss is unacceptable when re-forming or fire-forming 30-06 & .308 to many other calibers.

    With it, every case is a good one when you get done.

    rcmodel
     
  14. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    Just hold the case in your fingers and heat it with a propane torch until the neck discolors down to the shoulder. It doesn't need to be water cooled to annel the brass.
     
  15. HJ857

    HJ857 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    572
    For easy annealing get some of these.

    http://www.markingpendepot.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=268

    At whatever temp range you think is best. Some folks think 650 degrees is right, some say 700 degrees.

    Put the casing in some sort of holder that you can use in a power drill or screwdriver. Apply some of the Tempilstik to the neck then heat with a propane torch until the wax melts (This is usually around 8 seconds, give or take a couple), then tip into water to prevent heat from moving the the base of the case.

    Rapid cooling of brass does not adversely affect it, so no worries about that.
     
  16. TurboFC3S

    TurboFC3S Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    289
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    You must have asbestos fingers ...
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    45,594
    Location:
    Alabama
    and the whole idea of the case head being in water is to protect the integrity of it so the case head won't soften up. (Which is real bad, by the way ;) )
     
  18. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,061
    Location:
    S.E. Minnesota
    How about dunking the case necks in a pot of molten lead? That seems faster and better temperature control (not that I've tried it yet)
     
  19. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    If you are doing it correctly it will only heat the neck to annealing temperatures before the brass is too hot to hand on to.
     
  20. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    If you are doing it correctly it will only heat the neck to annealing temperatures before the brass is too hot to hang on to. You can see the part that is annealed because it will turn a silverish color and have sort of a blueish rainbow color at the edge of where the annealing is. Like I said, your fingers won't get hot holding on to the rim, and it won't overanneal the case if you stop when the color change gets close to the shoulder. You don't need to get the brass glowing red or try to melt it or anything, just 3 seconds or so in the hottest part of a propane torch's flame and you're done.
     
  21. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
  22. Clark

    Clark Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    4,238
    Location:
    Where I5 meets the rain forest
    I did that for a while after reading Varmint Al's site.

    I don't do it anymore, ever at, at all, for any reason.

    For some cartridges I now buy no turn neck reamers and have Forster sizing dies honed out at the factory.

    For some cartridges I now will just buy new brass if the neck splits.

    I must have 30,000 pieces of brass, have shot 5,000 rounds in my life, and have 15 years left to shoot.

    No more annealing for me.
     
  23. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    6,986
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    I don't bother with .223, .308, or 30-06, those are all very easy to replace.

    The 8x57, 8x56r, .303, and 6.5x55 cases do get annealed though.
     
  24. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    3,010
    Location:
    USA

    If you look you will see that the brass was chilled (it looks) before they start to torch it. you can see the condensation on the brass.
     
  25. David Wile

    David Wile Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Messages:
    634
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Hey folks,

    When I first started reloading, it was quite common to anneal cases after trimming them. The method was to stand them in a pan with an inch of water, heat the neck and shoulder of a case with a propane torch till it was cherry red, knock it over in the water and move on to the next case until finished.

    I did this for a while, but then realized that both case stretching and case hardening were more related to shooting hot loads. I was not shooting hot loads and noticed that my full length resizing and shooting was not making the cases longer like some folks shooting hot loads. Pretty soon I realized I really did not have to trim or anneal my cases.

    I would think if you are shooting cases hard you will have more of a need to trim and anneal cases to get more shooting life out of them.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page