Blue Dot, Steel, or 2400 for .357 Magnum?

[labnoti]

I reload for .357 Magnum and I'm looking for a new powder for intermediate loads. I usually use Hodgdon powders, but there seems to be a gap between Longshot and H110/Lil'Gun. I wasn't able to get good results using IMR 4227 and Small Pistol standard primers that I use exclusively. ES was as high as 200 and the gun belches powder skeletons.

With Longshot, I'm able to load a 158 gr bullet in my revolver/barrel combination to get a mean velocity of 1070 fps very nicely, but when I load higher but still under published maximums, ES and SD open up unacceptably.

I was pleasantly surprised to find I could get better velocity out of Alliant BE86. Surprised because I thought of it as a faster burning powder. But I was able to get 100 fps more than Longshot and with a tight SD and good accuracy. But the velocity near max loads is a little below my goal for the next batch of powder I buy.

My goal is 158 gr at ~1250 fps without being totally maxed out on pressure.

I'm out of Longshot and running low on BE86. If I step up to the H110 or Lil'Gun on the shelf, starting loads are near or just above my goal. These powders don't reduce well and Lil'Gun seems to burn dirty on the low end of the load data. I can't say that with standard primers I've seen very wide ES, but I believe these bulky loads of heavily deterred ball powders work best with magnum primers, and I will use standard.



So I'm looking to restock my powder supply with something that fills this gap and works well with standard primers. I'm fairly certain good 'ol 2400 will do it. But I'm considering some alternatives like Steel, or N110. I haven't read good news about Blue Dot, but maybe No. 9? Can anyone who has used them advise?

 

[fxvr5]

What barrel length are you using, and what handloading manuals do you have?

 

[fxvr5]

Is there data for Steel in handguns?

 

[gunlaw]

Blue dot works fine in 357 mag but use 158g or heavier bullets. AA #5 might be a good choice for intermediate loads.

 

[murf]

bluedot for 158 and 180 grain bullets is what I use in my guns.

luck,

murf

 

[labnoti]

Is there data for Steel in handguns?

Some. Barnes publishes data for Steel with their XPB bullets. I use those.

 

[joneb]

I have a 2 3/4 Security Six that does really well with 2400 and Accurate #9.

 

[fxvr5]

Some. Barnes publishes data for Steel with their XPB bullets. I use those.

Good to know! Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

My goal is 158 gr at ~1250 fps without being totally maxed out on pressure.

I do 1225/50ish depending on the gun with coated 158s and 2400. Under that did not perform quite as well IMHO. Things settled down nicely at 14.5 Grs vs 14.0 Grs of 2400, at least for me. So that may be an option for you.

I run a 158 at 1050/75ish with BE-86. It can do more, but the recoil is less sharp at that level, very accurate, and fun.

I am an AA #9 fan for .44 mag, but not .357 Mag.

N-105 would be more in line for your stated purpose of a 158 at 1250ish than N-110 IMHO, although N-110 is awesome in .44 Mag. 2400 is going to have better numbers powder position wise than N105 though. Hard to beat 2400 for a 158 at 1250ish FPS.

I have no experience at all with Steel powder.

If I have tried Blue Dot for this it has been so long I don't remember it. I did use Blue Dot for reduced .44 Mag loads back in the day, and with good success.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You say you want to use Hodgdon powders but they say you don't want to use a magnum primer. You can't just pick and choose, magnum primers will shrink the ES numbers with slow ball powders most times. You can't spasm for something but our unreasonable limits on the suggestions.

I was going to as if you were checking the velocities of relying on the data but then realized you were quoting ES and SD numbers. Are you loading jacketed bullets or cast bullets?

I was going to recommend HS-6 but that powder will not make you happy without a magnum primer. W572 might get you there but you will need to get it. Sorry I can't help more, good luck.

 

[labnoti]

I do 1225/50ish depending on the gun with coated 158s and 2400. Under that did not perform quite as well IMHO. Things settled down nicely at 14.5 Grs vs 14.0 Grs of 2400, at least for me. So that may be an option for you.

I run a 158 at 1050/75ish with BE-86. It can do more, but the recoil is less sharp at that level, very accurate, and fun.
.....

That's exactly where I'm going with BE86. I was surprised to find it shooting 158's at 11 and a half hundred, because I read the burn rate was "somewhere between Unique and Power Pistol." But now I'm dialing it down to about 1070 or 1080 and that's where I want to be with it. I think I'm going to get that with my gun using about 7.6 to 7.7 gr.

For more velocity, I think I've decided 2400 is the way for me to go. It will work well with the standard primers and I'm expecting it will reduce well all the way down to where BE86 leaves off and it should load up well to the point where there is more recoil than I want.

 

[2ndtimer]

I use Power Pistol for more than mid-range, but less than full throttle loads in .357 Magnum. For full power, H-110/W-296, Power Pro 300-MP or Accurate No. 9. For mid range, Unique, for mild, Tite Group or Bullseye.
My "utility" load for .357 is a 170 hr Keith style SWC over 7.9 gr of Power Pistol and a CCI-500 primer. Chronographs over 1200 fps out of my 6" GP-100 and just under 1100 fps out of my 2.25" SP-101.

 

[Riomouse911]

I'm a H-110/Unique/Bullseye guy as well. My bullets weigh from 125 to 160, and they're HC, coated or plated for mild to mid; jacketed for heavy loads (depending on the intended purpose).

Ramshot Enforcer is an option for higher-end loads, and Power Pistol is another option for middies. I haven't tried therm yet, but the reviews are pretty good so they'll be on my bench at some point.

Stay safe

 

[cfullgraf]

Currently, I load 357 Magnum with 158 gr SWC bullets and Unique to about 950-1000 fps. I've use both powder coated and conventionally lubed cast bullets. I do not need to shoot wrist snapping recoil loads these days in the 357 Magnum but that is my choice.

In the past, I used Blue Dot and 158 grain SWC bullets for lots of ammunition.

Also, my max level loads were with 158 grain jacketed bullets and Winchester 296. H110 is now the same as W296. I like W296. I use it in many places including my .410 shot shell ammunition.

There are lots more powder available these days than 25 years ago when I was loading 357 Mag to the max.

In both cases, use published load data.

 

[Steve C]

Your target velocity is easily reached with 2400. My chrono showed 1,243 FPS average from my 4" S&W 66 using a 158gr Remington JSP on top of 14.0 gr of 2400 in a Remington case and lit by a CCI500 primer. Drop a grain for the similar velocity from a cast bullet. Use standard primers with 2400.

I use Blue Dot for lighter bullets, mostly 125gr full power factory equivalents at 1,450 fps.

 

[Jeff H]

Another vote for 2400. I've run it as high as 14.5-15 gr for 158 cast bullets in handguns(old manual, I believe this is past current max charges.) . Downloads pretty good too as I've gotten good results down to 12.5gr.

 

[Rule3]

Blue Dot (AKA Flaming Dirt" needs to go the way of the DODO Birds!

With all the powders now available, Blue Dot is a Dinosaur,

 

[entropy]

Blue dot works fine in 357 mag but use 158g or heavier bullets. AA #5 might be a good choice for intermediate loads.

I used it for HOT HOT HOT loads with 125 gr. HP's back in the day (early 80's) , but I'll agree with Rule3, there are better powders available. Last time I loaded .357, (for my son, 3 years ago, I used AA#7. I only used Blue Dot back in the 80's because it's also what we (Dad and I ) loaded our pheasant and duck loads with.

 

[forrest r]

Sounds like your using 158gr lead bullets in a +/- 6" bbl.

Knowing what type of bullet your using (easily +/-50fps difference between bullet designs/coating/jackets/designs).
A 2 1/2" bbl is going to take more pressure to get a 158gr? bullet to go 1250fps compared to a 8 3/8" bbl.

Assuming your using a 158gr lead bullet in a +/- 6" bbl'd firearm:
True blue
enforcer
AA#7
AA#9
longshot
cfe-pistol
bluedot
herco
power pistol
2400

I'm sure there's more powders but the limiting factor is the standard sp primer. Several years ago I switched over to these primers for all my 357 loads/needs. Same with the 9mm & blasting/blammo ammo for the 223rem. Cabella's has them on sale a couple different times a year for +/- $20 per/1000


I mainly use power pistol for all my low pressured p+ cartridges (38spl p+/44spl p+/45acp p+0 along with all my medium velocity 357/44mag loads. Then it's 2400 for everything else until the long bbl.'s & heavy loads/hitters come out, then it's h-110/ww296/mp-300.

 

[Walkalong]

True blue

A very good and often overlooked powder IMHO.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

A very good and often overlooked powder IMHO.

I agree, I like Ramshot powders but they are not available where I live.

Zip is extremely close to W231/HP-38. True Blue is stable and accurate in its range. Enforcer is a good choice for full power magnum loads. The only one of their handgun powders I haven't tried is Silhouette but I hear good things about it.

True Blue is similar in burn rate to HS-6, AA#5 and IMR Blue.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I can't help on powders to use, but I will advise against the use of Lil'Gun in revolvers. It will accelerate wear on the forcing cone and top strap. It produces more flame than most of the powders I use. I only use it in semi-auto for 22 TCM.

 

[Eddietruett]

I'm not sure I quite understand why you wouldn't want to use Magnum Primers for the heavier loads. I've posted before, that I've gone the opposite. I use Magnum Primes for ALL of my .38/.357 loads. I see no real difference in light target loads with Bullseye. I have switched from Unique to Universal for the majority of my .38/.357 Midrange Loads mainly because Universal meters better in my Dillon Press and it may burn just a tad cleaner. But for my Heavy .357 Loads with 158gr and 180gr, Magnum Primers give me much more consistent velocities with 2400 and H110.

 

[Toprudder]

My first thought was that 2400 fits the criteria (except it is Alliant). Also, 300-MP downloads quite well and uses regular primers, but 300-MP seems to prefer longer barrels and works best in my 16-18" carbines.

 

[Jack B.]

Intermediate loads for 38/.357. Unique. I know it's not Hodgdon but it is easy to get. At least where I live.