I tried to contact them but their email bounces. Are they still in business? Would love one of their kits!
http://www.underhammers.com/muzzleloaderkits.htm
http://www.underhammers.com/muzzleloaderkits.htm
Blue Grouse
- Thread starter Oldnamvet
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alemonkey
Member
I've wondered that too. Those are neat guns.
Sagetown
Member
Those WA people must not stay put in one place very long. I found a nice WEB Site like that a few years ago. They advertised a product no one else in the U.S. could get. No sooner did I order it, and the place shut down. After several months, I canceled my personal check I'd sent with the order, and I'll be if the product didn't show up the next day. I never could get e-mail or phone contact. So, I wrote another check out and mailed it. It finally went through. What an ordeal.....
alemonkey
Member
Funny thing is, I noticed their site probably 6 months ago, and at the same time heard people couldn't contact them. I wonder if they went out of business, but had paid up their web site for a year or two.
arcticap
Member
I thought that Bruce at Blue Grouse stopped selling kits because the supplier, Deer Creek, stopped making underhammer actions.
The website mentions to call after 6 Pacific or on weekends. Has anyone tried that?
If parts aren't available, maybe he just doesn't want to be bothered answering non-productive calls.
The website mentions to call after 6 Pacific or on weekends. Has anyone tried that?
If parts aren't available, maybe he just doesn't want to be bothered answering non-productive calls.
I live 40 miles away from Blue Grouse and tried several times to contact him earlier this year. He did not give me the courtesy of a return call, nor respond to my postal mail, nor answer my email. Would you want to do business with someone that flakey? Not me.
I have been in touch with Blue Grouse as recently as March of 2008.
He is no longer building complete rifles or pistols as the BATF has determined that by doing so he is a manufacturer and therefore needs to be taxed as such.
Because of that, he is reluctant to take on new projects.
He has had to come up with a new way off supporting himself and his family and this is taking up quite a bit of his time.
He did indicate, he may be selling non firing wall hangers made from the same parts but I have seen no new advertising from him.
It is too bad as the underhammer, while not the original inline, is certainly a well thought out firelock and can be made into wonderfully accurate target rifles or switch barreled hunting rifles.
He is no longer building complete rifles or pistols as the BATF has determined that by doing so he is a manufacturer and therefore needs to be taxed as such.
Because of that, he is reluctant to take on new projects.
He has had to come up with a new way off supporting himself and his family and this is taking up quite a bit of his time.
He did indicate, he may be selling non firing wall hangers made from the same parts but I have seen no new advertising from him.
It is too bad as the underhammer, while not the original inline, is certainly a well thought out firelock and can be made into wonderfully accurate target rifles or switch barreled hunting rifles.
alemonkey
Member
I thought the manufacturer regulations only applied to modern arms, not black powder?
http://www.pacificrifle.com/intro.htm
Underhammers still available from here but I don't know if I am man enough to shoot one! Check the ballistics in the specifications tab -- 20 bore rifle loaded with 175 grains bp for a mv of 1700.
Underhammers still available from here but I don't know if I am man enough to shoot one! Check the ballistics in the specifications tab -- 20 bore rifle loaded with 175 grains bp for a mv of 1700.
arcticap
Member
Notice in the bottom right picture that their
8 bore African Zephyr model has a dual musket
cap ignition system for firing the 300 grain charges.
"Double the pleasure, triple the fun, because the
Zyphyr's a double capped & triple charged gun!"
8 bore African Zephyr model has a dual musket
cap ignition system for firing the 300 grain charges.
"Double the pleasure, triple the fun, because the
Zyphyr's a double capped & triple charged gun!"
The African also features our exclusive
Dual-Cap Ignition™ system wherein two musket caps,
placed side-by-side, are fired simultaneously to provide
greater assurance of ignition of the 300-grain charges
that the Africans are capable of digesting.
http://www.pacificrifle.com/african.htm
alemonkey
Member
That is one big, shoulder bruising rifle. Ouch.
scrat
Member
hahahahha thats what i was thinking. look at that but plate. wows
Apparently not, there was also something said about the number of firearms he built having exceeded a certain limit therefore constituted him being a manufacturer.
I don't have the letter handy but that is as I recall it.
I do know that even if the gov't is incorrect, it would cost a whole lot of money to convince them of that fact.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 governs sales, and that's the law that defines antiques and replicas of antiques as not being firearms based on the type of ammunition they shoot. However, the manufacturing of guns is subject to excise tax regulations which are separate from the GCA, and those regulations make no exemptions regarding the age or type of ammunition used. Thus under the excise tax regulations black powder guns are firearms,the manufacture of which is subject to excise tax regulations; I do not know the specifics of how many one may make per a given period of time to be exempt.
The BATFE is charged with enforcing both the GCA and the excise tax regulations. Their web site can provide the specifics.
Interestingly, the reason one can buy a cap and ball revolver and then a cartridge conversion cylinder for that gun which allows it to shoot modern cartridge ammunition without running afoul of the GCA of '68 is that technically you are 'manufacturing' a firearm for your own personal use. You are not buying or selling it, thus the GCA does not apply, and your 'manufacturing' activities are limited to numbers below the excise tax regulations. Just don't try to sell the gun with the cartridge cylinder installed...
The BATFE is charged with enforcing both the GCA and the excise tax regulations. Their web site can provide the specifics.
Interestingly, the reason one can buy a cap and ball revolver and then a cartridge conversion cylinder for that gun which allows it to shoot modern cartridge ammunition without running afoul of the GCA of '68 is that technically you are 'manufacturing' a firearm for your own personal use. You are not buying or selling it, thus the GCA does not apply, and your 'manufacturing' activities are limited to numbers below the excise tax regulations. Just don't try to sell the gun with the cartridge cylinder installed...
HUnter58
Member
Underhammer kits
Not sure if they are still in business, but this outfit sold underhammer kits.
http://www.azmountainman.com/index.php
Not sure if they are still in business, but this outfit sold underhammer kits.
http://www.azmountainman.com/index.php
arcticap
Member
That may be the Pittman-Robertson Act which mandates that an excise tax be paid on [almost] all firearms, ammunition, bows and arrows so that a portion of the money can be redistributed to the states (based on population & hunting license sales) for wildlife restoration.
Even used guns imported by individuals from Europe may have the tax added on when it comes through U.S. Customs. This particular tax isn't about manufacturing per se, it's about paying the ~11% excise tax that's paid at the manufacturing level on all of the guns that each manufacturer produces.
The Act has been in existence since 1937.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same tax isn't applied to every bullet and round ball that's manufactured for muzzle loaders too because these are able to used for hunting just like arrows are, whether they are actually used for hunting purposes or not.
The FEDERAL AID IN WILDLIFE RESTORATION ACT (PITTMAN-ROBERTSON ACT) can be read about further here:
http://ipl.unm.edu/cwl/fedbook/pract.html
Even used guns imported by individuals from Europe may have the tax added on when it comes through U.S. Customs. This particular tax isn't about manufacturing per se, it's about paying the ~11% excise tax that's paid at the manufacturing level on all of the guns that each manufacturer produces.
The Act has been in existence since 1937.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same tax isn't applied to every bullet and round ball that's manufactured for muzzle loaders too because these are able to used for hunting just like arrows are, whether they are actually used for hunting purposes or not.
The FEDERAL AID IN WILDLIFE RESTORATION ACT (PITTMAN-ROBERTSON ACT) can be read about further here:
http://ipl.unm.edu/cwl/fedbook/pract.html
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