blueprints for archaic, but still useful designs?

[justin22885]

im putting together a small foundry for a variety of casting needs.. and lately, ive realize ill have all tools neccessary and the desire to reproduce some classics.. im not looking to cast myself the parts to something illegal, or wanting to make some hollywood crap... im looking for blueprints to old 19th century firearms if anyone has any... components for a flint or percussion lock would be nice.. i know where i can get factory blueprints to the 1874 sharps rifle.... but does anyone know where i might be able to find blueprints for the 1873 winchester, or 1866 yellowboy?.. also, any suggestions are welcome here.. i really do enjoy making things myself.. theres a sense of accomplishment and a sort of sentiment achieved with the end product.

ive already discussed all rules and regulations as far as making my own rifles, as long as theyre not fully automatic, which i doubt a lever action or single shot will ever be, and the barrel length is above 16.. they couldnt care less what i do... however, they did tell me theyll supply me with a serial number for anything i make, and suggest i use it, though not required (since i have nothing to hide, and dont plan on having any reason to hide ill engrave these on with a dremel, obviously)...

the 74 sharps will be a nice design to do, and is one ill probably eventually do, but a 73 winchester or 66 henry would just be cool :-D

i think id like the 73 winchester more, however, the henry would probably be easier to cast.. and since cartridge brass is a high purity brass, some of my old brass would be a source for casting the receiver... i guess thats about as close to a "circle of life" you can get with a rifle?..

for barrels, ill buy a rifled blank and go from there...

one last thing i could be interested in if anyone could find one, are the schematics for the 1861 springfield musket.. ive always wanted to make one of those.. im aware its essentially just a 58 caliber percussion lock rifle, but i want to be specific

 

[Jim K]

First those old "brass" guns were not brass, they were gunmetal, which is really bronze.

If you are going to cast, why do you need blueprints? You set up a lost wax process, using an original or reproduction part to make the master.

This would be an interesting project for fun, but repros of those guns are already being made, so I doubt there would be any sales unless you are able to do a better job than the factories, and at competitive prices.

Jim

 

[justin22885]

well i would need the blueprints to make the part origionally, i have no idea where i could ever find a reproduction receiver, and if i paid for all these parts, why would i need to cast them?... i was going to carve the parts out of a soft wood and make a mould of that in plaster i could use to cast it in wax to use the lost wax process

 

[rcmodel]

I don't think you can make a lost wax mold for a receiver using a wood pattern to make a plaster mold.

Receivers are hollow inside, with exact dimensions for the internal parts, a threaded hole for the barrel, etc..

It seems to me a wood receiver plug with plaster cast around it would only give you a solid block of wax, resulting in a solid block of brass, that would then have to be machined out internally.

But nobody ever accused me of knowing anything much about lost wax casting.

Then even if you did somehow make a cast receiver, you still need a machine shop to make things like the bolt, toggles, breach block, hammer, lever, trigger, springs, etc.

Those parts were not cast, because cast parts would not be nearly strong enough to make a firing replica of anything.

rc

 

[justin22885]

i dont recall saying the inside of the wooden model would be solid?... i build musical instruments so i have the tools to accurately carve and inlet wood into any shape i desire, so i can make an exact representation of a receiver from blueprints out of wood that i couldnt do with metal...

also, using wood and the blueprints i could carve out the inside cavity out of a block of wood, and then the outlines of the receiver outter dimensions as well, using the mould i could pack in a mixture of sand and epoxy resin, put the pieces together, and the end result will give me a cavity in the shape of the receiver i could pour the steel into without using wax (this mould would only work once)

so there are two ways i can use a soft, easy to shape piece of wood to transfer blueprints over to make moulds with

also, im working on a small 3-axis CNC router for carving wood that once this is finished i could carve a mould out of plastic to cast the wax receivers from.. since the router itself isnt going to be powerful enough to carve steel directly like a mill would

but.. it brings me to the origional question as to where one could find winchester 1873, 1892, or even origional 1894 prints from, or the henry yellowboy blueprints?

 

[Cosmoline]

Justin--Go to the Buffalo Arms website and search under the category "Machinists Drawings" They've got a bunch of cool stuff there. If they don't have the particular set you're after contact them and see if they can direct you to who has it. Also check Paco's leverguns forum and post the question over there.

These complete machinist drawings for the listed items have all the detail it takes to make that part for your original or to make a complete Black Powder Cartridge rifle. All the angles and radii, measurements, screw threads, views, even blue prints for the wood. These would even make interesting framed conversation pieces. Complete drawings for the following are large blue print size pages.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,148.html

Personally I'd suggest starting with a single shot so you don't have to deal with the incredibly complicated innards of some of the magazine fed leverguns.

As far as the 61 Springfield I know some of the more serious reenactors have built their own. And there are kits around as well. Check over on the traditional Muzzleloader's forum, builders subforum. The guys there know their stuff. Just don't mention in-lines LOL

Good luck!

 

[navyretired 1]

Why Lost Wax or Investment Cast parts. If you've got the foundry and can make patterns cast in sand the way the old guns were made. Only problem is most were forged parts. As you probably know cast bronze is just below cast iron in temp and is very dangerous.
I use a old firefighters firesuit for casting aluminum and it's scary enough, and hot enough but I can sure make some neat parts you can't get any other way, and it's fun in my opinion.

 

[justin22885]

i dont have any fear of the heat though.. but im still careful

the reason i dont want to start out with a single shot design is because right now i really dont have much interest in one.. what i really wan is a 66 yellowboy or 73 winchester.. but will accept a 92 winchester as well... also any revolver blueprints or that of any classic sxs shotgun.. i would LOVE to find blueprints for the 1897 shotgun..

im also willing to work with backwards engineered blueprints if anyone has any of these and is good at backwards engineering

 

[rcmodel]

but will accept a 92 winchester as well

I think you need to back off and do a little research on firearms metallurgy, heat treating, and strength requirements.

All the later Winchester lever-actions and pumps like the 1892 and 1897 were made from carbon steel forgings, milled to shape, and heat treated for strength.

No way you can make a safe 92 or 97 Winchester or revolver at home with a cast receiver.

Yes, I know Ruger does it, but you ain't Ruger.

rc

 

[Cosmoline]

If you've never done this before I'd strongly suggest starting with a flintlock or the 1861 Springfield you were talking about. You can learn a lot by scratch building a lock, and it's pretty straight forward. When you move up to magazine fed firearms, esp. the crazy complex John Browning designs, you've got to be very precise or it just won't work properly. There's much less margin for error. On an old flinter, there's plenty of room to correct little errors.

I'd say start by casting and milling small parts that aren't required to contain any pressure. That's why I'd suggest a scratch build Siler or similar lock.

 

[justin22885]

rcmodel, if youre going to contribute to the topic of this thread, youre welcome, but you can leave the condescending attitude at home, unlike you, i dont just blindly assume everything is impossible to do just because im not a coorperation or have millions of dollars to dump into it.. its really not as complex as you may think, and ive casted plenty of complex parts in the past... and i hope your heat treating comment was a joke, because thats elementary knowledge.

cosmoline, i have a background in engineering, so im not a stranger to casting rather complex designs, and 19th century firearms in comparison to modern firearms, and modern engine components were not in any means complex... its one of the reason i prefer 19th century firearms over new ones.. the simplicity of it all

 

[justin22885]

i went to the buffalo arms website, theyre selling plans for about $120, ebay has the same ones for about $20