Blues bluing

[Denny Gibson]

Hey folks! I'm new here and just getting my feet wet so I'll start with my most current problem: bluing an old, large ring Mauser receiver ... I'm using a cold bluing method that has gotten decent results in the past but, in this case, has totally failed: The metal will not take on more than a pale bluish finish after multiple coats. I'm baffled ... but then I have no idea what material this receiver is made from ... it's acting almost like I'd expect stainless steel to: finish won't darken and what's there is splotchy and way short of the Blue (black) color I was hoping for. Any ideas or insights into this receiver's material?

Thanks!

 

[Mauser lover]

What is the make of the Mauser receiver (if known)? What year?

Also, cold blue methods (all of them, to my knowledge) are notoriously picky. They might work passably with one gun, but change the alloy slightly and it won't work. I think that is your problem, this Mauser receiver just doesn't agree with your brew.

Welcome to the forum! Always good to have another member! Hope someone with more knowledge pipes up, and you can get an answer with a fix!

 

[BBBBill]

Welcome aboard!
Cold bluing is notoriously poor compared to hot bluing which, in itself, is not a very durable or protective finish. Not to say that I don't like the looks of hot blue and have it on some of my guns. Just a perspective on what it is.
Try warming the receiver. Try different cold bluing solutions. Or learn to rust blue. Pretty easy although a bit time consuming. Results in a much more durable finish, too.

 

[Denny Gibson]

Thanks folks!

Mauser Lover: it's a 1908 Brazillian Mauser

BBBBill: Thanks ... I'll look into rust bluing!

 

[macgrumpy]

I'll second the idea of rust bluing.

You can take this (1917 Colt Army .45)


And make it look like this

 

[LoonWulf]

I hot blue stuff that will fit in a 2quart stock pot, with basic store bought chemicals, that produces the best "low cost" bluing for me. Ive never gotten rust bluing to work properly.
I also use cold blue but ignore the instructions, i apply with a gloved had and contine to rub rather than let it sit. Ive had very good luck with that application technique.

Finish work and degreasing needs to be of the same quality for any bluing done.

Heres a barrel done in cold blue

 

[boom boom]

FWIW, If I recall correctly, the receivers of both the 1908 Brazilian and the 1909 Argentinian LR Mausers were originally left in the white (unblued) as per the GEW 98 German standard at the time. I think that they were polished and that could be part of the problem as cold blue does better on a satin type surface than gloss.

There are different formulas in cold blues (those using sulphates stink a bit) but I have had more success with Brownell's Oxpho blue in a gel than most others. Birchwood casey products, not so much luck had there. Some good tips above by LoonWulf and others that can work.

Cold bluing is really just dye/stain for steel and it depends on some penetration at the surface level to work. Oils and silicone residues can negatively affect cold bluing and as others have noted steel alloys vary in how well it takes the stain/dye. Try scrubbing with acetone before application.

Rust bluing or hot bluing come from a chemical reaction of controlled oxidation of the surface. Cold blue as mentioned above is more like a dye/stain which is why cold bluing does not protect from steel from oxidation like either rust bluing or hot bluing.

 

[Mauser lover]

I started a thread a long time ago when I learned to do slow rust bluing. I got quite a bit of advice from this forum back then, and the project turned out quite well. I would direct you to the thread, but I don't know how to find it! If you can figure out how to find all the threads that I started, the title is obvious. I haven't started THAT many...

If you do find it, let me know how to find all the threads I started!

Once I learned how to do it, and bought my first bottle of slow rust blue solution, I haven't touched another bottle of cold blue!

 

[LoonWulf]

www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/slow-rust-bluing.657572/

That one?

 

[Mauser lover]

That's the one!

 

[Denny Gibson]

Folks ... thanks a bunch! I'm going to like being in this forum!

 

[LoonWulf]

I actually just finished hot bluing an Arisaka reciever that im still trying to figgure out what to do with (so this is mostly just to add some rust resistance).
Here are a basic parts list and some pictures of my set up.
Camp stove, stock pot(aliminum rivets melted and were replaced with stainless screws), tongs, candy therm
Chemicals are Kno3 as your salts and sodium hydroxide to raise boiling point.

Quickly bead blasted reciever. Again finish BEFORE starting is the most important part of the job...thiz ones...meh

Degreased

My hi tech bluing system....(solutions almost a year old, but only been used twice)

1/2 hr later and before cleaning

Oiled and done...if you look close you can see the flaw in the finish where i didnt do an even job with the blaster.


For me and doing small parts i really find this the best method for producing consistently good results, cheaply, easily, and quickly.
Im sure if i worked at it more i could have figgured out slow rust bluing, and ive seen some great work like whats posted above.


Oh hey and welcome to the forum Denny!

 

[Denny Gibson]

LoonWulf ... thanks for sharing the pictures! Looks great! Another method to explore.

 

[macgrumpy]

The first time you rust blue a gun the rust phase is really spooky. I wondered if I had just ruined the gun but after you boil and card the gun it looks normal. I had to run the gun through the process something like 5 or 6 times before I got to where I liked it. The owner wanted it to be a subdued/ non-reflective blue/black like the military used on the original gun so I found a company that makes bluing solutions that will produce the colors and reflective qualities that you prefer.


And no, I didn't make a rust box, I just steamed up my small bathroom by running the hot shower water for a few minutes. Once the room steamed up I turned off the water and closed the bathroom door for a couple of hours. The picture above is the result.

I boiled the gun after rusting it by putting a deep pan filled with distilled water on the stove. I also used a thermometer to monitor the water temperature.


As mentioned by others, the preparation is the key. It takes forever to prep the gun by hand, you have to use a combination of sand paper and steel wool, a sand blaster really helps reduce the time, even then pay close attention to the corners and places where parts meet, they might need some extra attention with sand paper or steel wool. The smoother the metal the smoother the finish.

A top view of the finished gun, this view presents a more accurate image of the finished color.

 

[BBBBill]

The picture above is the result.

For the OP - But not the final result. Don't get spooked. Kinda like makin' sausage. If you know what went into making it, you might not want to eat it. The final result is worth the effort. See Macgrumpy's post above for that.