Bobbed hammer to replace factory Model 60 hammer?

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ryan3465

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Hello all!

I've done some searching but so far have come up empty. Does anyone know where I can find a bobbed hammer for a Smith & Wesson Model 60? I'd like to try carrying it with a bone hammer, but don't want to ruin my factory hammer in case I decide I want to go back to that config. Does anyone know where I can find one of these? Thanks!!
 
Need to know the dash model number of your model 60??

But Numeric arms still has model 60 hammers for some of the various dash numbers.
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/298500.htm

On the other hand, as a J-Frame S&W user for going on 50 years?
There is nothing to be gained by bobbing a hammer and a couple of things to lose.

Like holster retention for instance.
And cocked SA accuracy for longer shots.

If you are worried about snagging the hammer on clothing?
Learn to push your thumb-nail / thumb pad into the back of the hammer spur during the first grasp leading to the draw.

It even works fine & snag-free out of a pocket.

rc
 
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Thanks for the response rc. I've been getting into pocket carry and have had the hammer snag a couple times but I will try that thumb trick. I believe my model 60 is a -3 model (I could be wrong however)
 
I had my model 60 (no dash) hammer bobbed and never looked back. While I love the lil' fellow, that configuration works for me and I do consider it a tool. Alot of pocket carry during the winter month. When I had the hammer bobbed, I asked the gunsmith to leave it with a functional SA trigger. It can be fired SA, BUT MUCH CARE MUST BE TAKEN TO DO SO. That's just me.
 
Palmetto did you have the gunsmith knurl or serrate the tiny area at the top of the hammer where it meets the top strap so you could thumbcock it? Thanks!
 
I seldom disagree with rcmodel, but this is one such instance.

He is correct in saying you can make a pocket draw while covering the hammer spur with your thumb, but that prevents you from taking a full grip on the handle while the revolver is holstered, and I consider that to be more important then having the hammer spur and single-action option left "as is."

As for lowering a spurless hammer that is cocked with a loaded chamber in front of it. It can be done, but it must be done exactly right or you will have a loud BANG! You must also avoid any mistakes while in a potentially high-stress situation. On two occasions I have been called on to remove the single-action option on a bobbed hammer after the revolver's owner (both law enforcement officers) had a neglegent discharge that fortunately didn't end with a serious consequence. One however had to explain to his chief why there was an additional (and unauthorized) hole in one of the department's cars. :uhoh:

It is highly unlikely you will ever find yourself in a situation where a pocket gun would be used where the single-action option was necessary or advantageous.
 
I had my carry revolvers, a 360J and a 327NG, bobbed and made DAO. No issues with either and both have super slick DA pulls, perfect for my needs.
 
It is highly unlikely you will ever find yourself in a situation where a pocket gun would be used where the single-action option was necessary or advantageous.
Depends on where & how you roll I guess.

My pocket gun revolvers spend way more time in the woods chasing dogs and hunting mushrooms then they do fending off muggers & thugs.

For that, I want SA capability for longer range shots.

I killed a coyote once with a Chiefs Special at fairly long range, while it as about 3 feet way from killing my dog.
And more then one poisonous snake about to chomp on one of the dogs legs.

And it sure wasn't me shooting a Chief Special DAO!

I never was real good at that!

For days I don't want hammer spur?

I have a Model 49 Bodyguard too.

rc
 
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My father had his Model 60's hammer bobbed by a gunsmith, and now that he's passed away it is now mine. I considered having the hammer replaced, but after conceal carrying it for a few weeks, came to really like the bobbed hammer.

Since this photo, I've replaced the huge ugly full size Pachmyr grips that Dad had on her for a nice Hogue Bantam Grip (love those grips!)

If you do have the hammer bobbed, also make sure you have the single action sear removed.

6638498191_95f2f3b231_z.jpg
 
RC and Fuff give some good reasons to avoid bobbed hammers, but there is another, especially in small guns. There is a fairly fixed momentum required to reliably fire a primer. When hammer is lightened, some of that momentum is lost and reliability may be lost with it. The amount of hammer mass lost when bobbing the hammer of, say, a 686 would not be significant because the mass of the hammer is still great enough for reliability. But bobbing the hammer of a Model 60 removes a considerable part of the overall mass of an already small hammer. If bobbing the hammer is combined, as it often is, with lightening the mainspring, trouble is very likely to follow in the form of misfires, something you don't want in a defense gun.

Jim
 
So far I haven't had any ignition problems with bobbed J-frame hammers, but I also haven't fooled with lightend mainsprings.
 
Jim K said:
There is a fairly fixed momentum required to reliably fire a primer.

It ain't momentum that ignites primers - it's power, which is a product of speed. All else equal, a lighter hammer travels faster and delivers a more powerful blow to the primer, so bobbing the hammer actually increases reliability.

Momentum does go down when the hammer's lightened, but momentum is what jars the muzzle upon hammer strike. Momentum is also what resists internal friction, though, so a lighter hammer doesn't reduce reliability so long as the action's smooth, and/or the hammer isn't too light.
 
All else equal, a lighter hammer travels faster and delivers a more powerful blow to the primer, so bobbing the hammer actually increases reliability.

Not according to my gunsmith who has been working on revolvers for over 50 years now. If you take too much mass off the hammer it will become unreliable...even though the velocity may increase. As I recall from my physics class, momentum is mass times velocity.

Here you go:

"In classical mechanics, linear momentum or translational momentum is the product of the mass and velocity of an object."
 
texagun said:
As I recall from my physics class, momentum is mass times velocity.

No argument. But my point is that it's not momentum that ignites primers, it's power.

texagun said:
If you take too much mass off the hammer it will become unreliable

And I said as much - if the hammer's too light. A hammer that's simply lighter than factory doesn't necessarily qualify as too light, though. A hammer's too light is when it's either unable to resist excessive internal friction, or it's below some mass at which it accelerates as fast as it's gonna accelerate. At this point, power drops off quickly.


boom boom said:
Think you want Kinetic Energy here which is 1/2 Mass X Velocity squared.

Nope. The hammer transfers the potential energy of the spring, and the above equation is only a way of determining how much energy is being transferred. It doesn't suggest the hammer's the source of that energy. The spring is the source of that energy, which can be calculated with a spring equation. And just because "mass" is in the equation doesn't mean KE goes down. Again, the energy comes from the spring, so if all you're doing is reducing mass, the spring's potential energy and the hammer's kinetic energy is unchanged, so velocity must go up. Power goes up because it's directly proportional to energy x velocity.


Here's an analogy for everyone: Consider a car rolling at 1mph into the back of yours. Your car's gonna rock a little bit, since momentum's good at moving things, but your bumper is likely ok. That's because the heavy slow car has little power.

Now consider some hooligan taking a whack at your bumper with a hammer. Same kinetic energy as the rolling car, but much less momentum, yet much more power. Your car doesn't rock as it gets hit because the hammer's got little momentum, but that hammer sure did a number on your bumper. Power is what dent bumpers...and primers.
 
ryan3465, nope, it's smooth. I only use the SA trigger at the range. I ONLY do it at the range. Start the DA pull and grab the hammer and pull it back. It's not hard to do, BUT I only do it pointing down range. I use the SA trigger to test rounds without having to go through the DA pull.

As to lighter hammer hits with bobbed hammers, I've on had a problem with "factory" reloads at a local range. I'm thinking hard primmers. I've never had a problem with factory defence ammo or my own reloads.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. You all have really given me some insight into the hammer dilemma. I really appreciate it.

Ryan
 
No argument. But my point is that it's not momentum that ignites primers, it's power.

You sure about that?

Momentum is the factor that keeps a moving object moving when it encounters an outside (resistive) force. Mass and momentum make the bullet penetrate deeper.

Mass and momentum allow the 165 grain bullet catch up to and eventually pass the 150 grain bullet, even though it starts at 200 fps less velocity.

It begs a (hypothetical) question:

If you're tasked with knocking down a brick wall, which tool will you choose for the task...a framing hammer or a 10-pound sledge?

Another one pops up:

What is power? Energy? Momentum? Both?

I bobbed a J-Frame hammer once. I didn't have any ignition issues...until I ran up against CCI Mil-Spec primers.

The same lot of primers lit off without a hitch...until I bobbed the hammer.

Among highly trained and keenly observant law enforcement types, that's known as a clue.
 
1911Tuner said:
Momentum is the factor that keeps a moving object moving when it encounters an outside (resistive) force. Mass and momentum make the bullet penetrate deeper.

Agreed. Yet when we think about a primer, it doesn't have to be moved (or shouldn't have to be). It needs to be dented. Power dents. Momentum moves.

1911Tuner said:
If you're tasked with knocking down a brick wall, which tool will you choose for the task...a framing hammer or a 10-pound sledge?

Well, gee, given these 2 poor choices, I'd choose the heavy & slow moving bulldozer ;). A 10lb sledge will bash a hole in the wall, so you can eventually take a wall down with it. The framing hammer comes under the category of "too light".

1911Tuner said:
I bobbed a J-Frame hammer once. I didn't have any ignition issues...until I ran up against CCI Mil-Spec primers.

The same lot of primers lit off without a hitch...until I bobbed the hammer.

Again - The J-frame suffers from a lack of leverage to begin with, so caveats with bobbed hammers show up quicker in J-frames.
 
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