Body Armor?

[EOTechRulesAll]

Jeff White-

I have water purification tablets, and I am in an area where water is readily available in the form of streams, creeks, and a huge thing known as LAKE ERIE. My operating area includes LAKE ERIE, which extends for miles to the west and east.


If all I knew how to do was drink the water I carry, rather than making previously undrinkable water, drinkable, or collecting water through things such as Indian wells, then I'd be in pretty poor shape.

If all you have is what you carry with you, you're going to run out and die. You ought to know how to get by with the land.

I've been hassled by everybody in my militia (just about) because they are against body armor, they believe I carry too much stuff, etc, so I've really heard it all and gotten sick of it all. However, my marine buddy is firmly on my side when it comes to body armor and combat loads. He just resents that the gov't makes him carry lots of stuff that is basically worthless but is there for the sake of "standardization" however he feels if you're not carrying at least 1,000 rounds of rifle ammo, and wearing armor, you're in for trouble. I think the issue is just that most of the people I work with, are unable to afford body armor, so they get annoyed that I have six vests while they have zero.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

One more thing, Jeff White-

I am 21 (almost 22), my Marine buddy is 22, most of the people I know who tell me not to carry lots of stuff are 40-55.

When I'm 40 to 55 I will consider what the old folks who have bad backs and aging muscles are telling me, but for now, I'm 21 and I will carry what works for 21 year old me.

I am working on finding lighter versions of tools and other such things to swap for the stuff that I need but that might be heavier than I need them to be. If I need some sort of tool, I'm going to carry it, and if I can find a lighter and more durable version of that tool, then I'll swap it for the lighter one.

I'm not going to short myself on what I need and what I know I can manage, just to fit into the ideas of others as to what my weight carry limit should be. If I cannot manage something, I won't try to manage it, I'll modify my plans. If I can manage something, I'll do it.


Do we need to have a separate section of Strategy and Tactics?

S&T for people under 30

S&T for people over 40?

Then maybe an S&T for anybody that falls in-between?

 

[shark40sw]

I think the original question was about wearing body armour other than work. I'm not sure anymore as I got somewhat side tracked reading about EOtechs invading Chinese Canadians or some such weirdness.
I very seldom wear my armour other than at work. One set does however hang on the back of my bedroom door (level 2 with rifle plates front and back) near the wall safe (model 19 and glock 23). Between that and the two dogs I think I am protected enough to be able to make it to the gun room if anything serious were to happen. But as far as wearing it to go to the 7/11 for milk. I've never seen the need to.

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Shark.

I assume you carry a gun with you when you go to the store? Are you worried about some sort of problem that might require you to have a firearm to make it out alive?

If you have a problem that serious, you probably have a much greater chance of surviving unharmed if you have a ballistic vest. If somebody was to get the drop on you, or get a few shots in in a gun-fight, you'd be much better off having armor on, than not having it.

I don't understand why people who are into CCW, would be against wearing body armor as part of their daily routine.

Hell, if I had the money I'd have an armored Tundra with level V windows, armored engine, run-flat tires, etc...

 

[qwert65]

As for those who assume I am 150, they are incorrect.

Just using it as an example, you're bigger so you need more water is that better? Just some friendly advice

I'm not an expert on this body armor thing(wanted info hence reading the thread) But it seems the general consensus is that they're heavy. I do have lots of experience carrying heavy things in all types of weather and no offense but it seems like you might want to practice bugging out a couple times say in aug and jan

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Okay, qwert, because of this desire to impart friendly advice (in a thus far decent manner), I will tell you my weight. I am approx 165 pounds.

 

[JERRY]

we wear body armor when we will probably put ourselves in an other wise avoidable situation....like responding to a bank robbery with the intent of not letting the bad guy get away.....

we do not wear body armor when we go about our regular routine that includes looking out for and avoiding trouble....but we carry at the minimum a tool (concealed handgun)to help us extract ourselves if need be...

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Well that's okay for you, but for me, I like to take it up a notch and that requires the wearing of soft body armor as part of my daily routine. If I was expecting trouble I'd have tactical armor and my AR-15.

 

[The_Sheriff]

WOW EOTechRulesAll, your weird! I thought that carrying my Glock 22 with a spare magazine was a lot! lol

 

[Jeff White]

EOTechRulesAll said;

I am 21 (almost 22), my Marine buddy is 22, most of the people I know who tell me not to carry lots of stuff are 40-55.

When I'm 40 to 55 I will consider what the old folks who have bad backs and aging muscles are telling me, but for now, I'm 21 and I will carry what works for 21 year old me.

I am glad that the experience of people 40-55 is worthless to you. I joined the Army as an Infantryman on 6 Dec 74 and retired as 1SG of a Field Artillery Battery on 1 Nov 03. In the 21 years I was an Infantryman, I spent quite a bit of time under a ruck. I've seen plenty of 21 year old studs on the side of the road with an IV in their arm because they were overloaded. If you intend to go into the military, into a leadership position no less, you are going to have to learn to manage your load and your Soldier's load.

Do we need to have a separate section of Strategy and Tactics?

S&T for people under 30

S&T for people over 40?

Then maybe an S&T for anybody that falls in-between?

Nope just one.

Jeff

 

[qwert65]

ok EOTech, you're in good shape, so just to survive you're gonna need 30ml/kg water a day so 165/2.26=73kg times 30=2190 1000ml in a L so you'll need 2.2L of water to just stay healthy NOT counting loss for sweat etc. it's called your basic metabolic need

Now you can get roughly 1/3 of your water from food assuming it's not salty/ candy/ energy bar type stuff but real food so 2.2/3=.73

so you can figure if you were just sitting at the computer you would need 1.5L/day Now obvisouly you can go on with less or none for a day or so but it will catch up with you.

If you add weight and activity you will have to replace that as well(also electorlytes otherwise you won't retain the water you drink)

So, in an emergency if you're bugging out you're not even bringing a days worth of water what if you have to lay low? or are cut off from water, sprain an ankle which slows you up, its the summer. Remember ypou're carrying the amount needed if you were at home not in any activity

 

[shark40sw]

Actuall, in reply to EOTech's question, I very seldom carry a gun outside of work. After packing one around for 10 hours a day, plus whatever time it takes me to do my shopping on the way home, I don't feel I need to most days. That's not to say that there isn't times when my travels or job takes me to places where one is very much a piece of my standard every day wear. I just don't live in an environment (real or imagined) where I feel I need to have it with me all the time.
But I'm one of the old farts who has managed to live to an age (41), and experience level over rides my need for one.

 

[The_Sheriff]

I think that EOTechRulesAll is a Mall Ninja!!!!! LOL

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Sheriff, I haven't been to a mall in years... I think you're an uptight prude...

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Jeff, I never said the experience of older people is worthless. I was implying that old people are applying their current standards, to us younger folks.

The truth is that we younger people are probably going to be more physically capable than the older people. That is just a biological reality.

 

[Jeff White]

I was implying that old people are applying their current standards, to us younger folks.

Some people just have to learn everything on their own. I see an ulcer in the future for your platoon sergeant if you do get in.

Jeff

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Why would I give an ulcer to such a man? If he's been in Iraq for X years and I've been in for X days, I'll let him tell me how he sees the situation, and go from there.

Just because I don't agree with 100% of everything, everybody else says, doesn't mean I have problems.

Would you agree with absolutely everything somebody says, just because they say it?

 

[357wheelgunner]

EOTech, you'll understand what they're saying someday. Don't take it personally.

To elaborate on "Mall Ninja", check this site out:

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

I'm a fairly good shot, my thigh holster has an M9 Beretta, and I pay great attention to safety...

Although I do have tactical gear, lots of it, boots (hunting/water-proof, not combat). However, I've never boasted of experience with special ops units, or any unit since I'm not a liar and I have honestly never been in the service.

I have trained with people who were/are in the military though, that much is true, and I don't mind talking about it.





From that mall-ninja stuff... Gecko says--

Here is the questions. The ducttape solution, although tactically sound, is hot and painful to remove. I would like to go to the single-plate solution in back. What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition. I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.

Yet I have repeatedly said I don't even have a back plate due to money issues and the fact that I do not anticipate being shot in the back. How can somebody compare me, who seems reasonable (I judge myself as reasonable) to such an unreasonable guy...

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

lol thanks for all the chuckles guys
brought back memories of being "almost 22"

 

[Jeff White]

Why would I give an ulcer to such a man? If he's been in Iraq for X years and I've been in for X days, I'll let him tell me how he sees the situation, and go from there.

You answered your own question. You already know everything there is to know about something you have absolutely zero experience with. Your first few weeks in uniform are going to be interesting to say the least. Good luck to you. I mean that.

Jeff

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

Jeff White...

I never said I know everything/anything, but I do believe that thanks to detailed and thorough study from an academic point of view, I know more than some commoner on the street who has never even read a book on tactics, let alone war memoirs and other such books, or done various training exercises with those who have done the stuff tha the training pertains to.

I did very good with my first round of chess because I had been taught about it beforehand, and I had read about it beforehand. As opposed to some people who just jump into it.

I'm not claiming I am some rough and tumble Delta equivalent, but I do know some stuff.


With how my friends train, I'd be decently comfortable with them having to storm a house and get me out of a hostage situation, if they had to do it. I know they know their stuff pretty well, and I know a good bit of stuff pretty well as well, but as always, I consider myself "ever learning" so to speak. I just don't like the attitude some come off with of, "well I know a lot more than you, you're not a hardened combat veteran, so you cannot possibly know anything of value, next!" and quite frankly you seem to come off with that.

 

[The_Sheriff]

This guy is the reason that people don't like guns! This guy obviously has some kind of problem. Maybe it is just an issue with his self esteem or pride. I would suggest that you go and maybe see a counsellor or speak with someone about why you do all of these things. Remember unless you are in law enforcement you should not have to worry about those kinds of threats and as a civilian just carry your handgun and if you want wear some soft body armor. That's all there is to it!

Have fun shootin and don't worry!

 

[EOTechRulesAll]

How many death threats have you ever received? Have you ever problems with local gangs?


Maybe we should just leave carrying guns to the police and call them if we need anything?

Unless you're in law enforcement you shouldn't have to worry about such threats...

What do you do when some thug draws a gun on you, you draw on him, and he starts shooting? I plan on shooting back, but I'd also like to have some bare minimum protection against his first few shots. I'd rather be walking away as opposed to being taken out on a stretcher.

 

[The_Sheriff]

Ok I understand that but why would you need so much survival gear even if you live in the ghetto? I also think that as many people as possible should carry but I know that I don't want a bunch of knuckle heads running around playing war!