Body cams.

[mcmurry]

I saw an ad recently on tv, where the company that makes those "Tac Lights" are now making personal body cams. As a means of telling your side of whatever incident, or showing who might be attacking you, it might be interesting. Or it might get you in more trouble.

 

[ATLDave]

This seems like an incredibly ill-advised concept for a "regular person." For just a boatload of reasons, very few of which have to do with use-of-force issues.

 

[Riomouse911]

I could see it as good for an armed or unarmed security guard, bouncer etc. For a CCW person I’d like to be as inconspicuous as possible when carrying, a camera pointed at everyone is bound to attract attention. so...

For Joe Citizen, I can see them becoming magnets for people getting pissed off about invading their privacy and getting in your face like those Google glasses did about five years back.

Now a dashboard go pro is a great idea. Those almost always seem to keep the truth in focus at a traffic wreck.

Stay safe!

 

[Hasaf]

I have a dash cam in my car. Having a subponeable witness with me at all times have had an impact on my driving. Of course, right now my car is in the shop. I may review the footage when I get it back to see if they test drove it.

Last year I was driving though a snow storm (they called it a blizzard, if it was a blizzard it was an anemic one) in Wyoming and I was on the phone with my wife (a dull strip, not high cognitive driving). I made the comment, "that will look interesting on the dash cam," in reference to some snow covered tumbleweeds masquerading as giant snowballs. It was at that moment that I passed into a cellular dead zone. She didn't hear from me for several hours after that (because I pulled in a rest area to take a nap). I can assure you that it was less funny to her than it was to me.

I think a body cam would be just plan weird. That being said, I do have a helmet cam for cycling.

 

[patmccoy]

In many states you cannot legally make an audio record of anyone else without their knowledge. I wonder how this would apply to video/audio?

 

[Robert]

Let's keep this 2A/firearms focused.

 

[FROGO207]

As stated above this could be a double edged sword. Might help, might not, but surely would attract unwanted attention and that in itself could possibly escalate into an armed encounter that otherwise might be easily defused. I think it unwise to wear one as a regular part of my daily attire. YMMV

 

[Wisco]

I like cameras for monitoring others’ behavior, not so much my own.

I think it’s equally a liability as it is an asset.

I have the right to remain silent if accused of something, but my recorder probably won’t.

Too many what ifs. 100 people here watch the same shooting and 50% call it murder. The other 50% all chant “good shoot!”

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I saw an ad recently on tv, where the company that makes those "Tac Lights" are now making personal body cams. As a means of telling your side of whatever incident, or showing who might be attacking you, it might be interesting. Or it might get you in more trouble.

I wouldn't trust my freedom to the makers of "The Tac Light"

 

[FL-NC]

Double-edged sword. Helmet cams have been in use for some time in the Special Ops community, but not for the same reasons as they are being mass-issued to law enforcement as of late. We would have rather not had them.

 

[Riomouse911]

I like cameras for monitoring others’ behavior, not so much my own.

I think it’s equally a liability as it is an asset.

I have the right to remain silent if accused of something, but my recorder probably won’t.

Too many what ifs. 100 people here watch the same shooting and 50% call it murder. The other 50% all chant “good shoot!”

Yup, that’s why the camera is nothing more than a two-dimensional video image, taken from one angle of a rapidly evolving 360 degree event. It’s not a panacea for everything involving a shooting situation, just a piece of the whole puzzle.

Stay safe!

 

[CapnMac]

I have a dash cam in my car.

I do, too; part of the GPS, so time stamp lat/long and speed all included.

I also have a barely-servicable laptop which has a motion-activated cam on it facing my safe from a reasonably inconspicous spot, too.

Cameras are part of our present reality.

They are getting small and cheap enough to use instead of spotting scopes at the range, too.

I can readily imagine "gun cams" in out very near future.

 

[Speedo66]

I do, too; part of the GPS, so time stamp lat/long and speed all included.

I also have a barely-servicable laptop which has a motion-activated cam on it facing my safe from a reasonably inconspicous spot, too.

Cameras are part of our present reality.

They are getting small and cheap enough to use instead of spotting scopes at the range, too.

I can readily imagine "gun cams" in out very near future.

Don't even think like that, some legislator may think it's a great idea that every gun come equipped with a non-removable camera that only the police can shut off.

 

[armoredman]

CapnMac, I saw a picture of a revolver camera from the 30s, IIRC - it took a picture every time the trigger was pulled, six exposures.
Body camera for regular people walking around? Odd, at best. Body cam for 3 gun match? Might be interesting.

 

[Craig_AR]

1. To make this gun related, note the story of an obnoxious anti- spending a day harassing the VCDL booth and visitors at a community event, in the first article in
https://www.listbox.com/member/arch...7133359:0FA9F0BE-9A68-11E8-A91C-D3B312B067E3/
The story is a bit long, so I will not repeat it here. Please read it first before listening to the audio recording of the described event:
https://vcdl.org/resources/Audio/Koebel1.mp3

2. Amazon sells several models of working ballpoint pen that have a built in video camera. The lens is obscurely placed above the clip so it is usable while clipped to a shirt or jacket pocket. Not as robust as body cams used by LEOs, but also not as obvious. They are potentially beneficial to private citizens. Search the web for "spy cam" or "spy pen."

3. In fact, in most states only one party participating in the conversation need to provide consent.
Here are online references on "consent to record" laws:

a. This one is an older web site. Note the info at the top that it is being preserved but not updated. Although the top shows a date of today, I cannot tell how current the information actually is.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations

b. Although it is dated 2013, the PDF file here seems to be one of the more useful sources:
https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/LAWS-ON-RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf

Quoting from that page, "Under Federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 2511(2)(d) requires only that one party give consent. In addition to this Federal statute, thirty-eight (38) states and the District of Columbia have adopted a “one-party” consent requirement. Nevada has a one-party consent law, but Nevada’s Supreme Court has interpreted it as an all-party consent law."

 

[Craig_AR]

Firearms Focus #2, # Gun Competition

For years I have mounted an action camera on my hang glider when flying (https://craginsflightblog.blogspot.com/), even before GoPro existed. They are great for recording and recalling sport experiences. I have on occasion mounted my GoPro on a hat or arm and recorded a neighborhood walk with my dog. If I ever take up 3 Gun Competition I would certainly use an action camera as a body cam during practice sessions as well as during formal competition if allowed.

The latest high-end 360 degree cameras like the GoPro FUsion (https://shop.gopro.com/cameras/fusion/CHDHZ-103.html) and Garmin VIrb 360 (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/562010) are amazing.

 

[shafter]

They're old news in law enforcement with more and more agencies adopting them. I think the day will come when it becomes common for everyone. I don't think it's a good thing but I bet in another decade or so, it will be a thing. Maybe sooner.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

They're old news in law enforcement with more and more agencies adopting them. I think the day will come when it becomes common for everyone. I don't think it's a good thing but I bet in another decade or so, it will be a thing. Maybe sooner.

It's already a "thing", it's called a smartphone. Regular folks haven't taken to wearables yet quite like some companies thought, I think.

But you may be right about the future. The technology is definitely here.

Maybe Levi's will make this their next big endeavor...

 

[Spats McGee]

From a legal perspective, I can see any type of video recording being both good news and bad news. If I'm ever involved in a shooting, it'd be nice to have a recording of the event, provided that it shows what I need it to show. I've dealt with police MVRs, jail videos, and body cams for court for a long time now. Here are the issues that I've seen crop up with some regularity:

1. A camera is only useful if it works and is turned on. Yeah, this is kind of "water is wet," but a CC-er may or may not have time to turn a camera on if the poo hits the fan. If said CC-er leaves the camera on all the time, it may pick up things he or she does not necessarily want recorded.
   
2. A video is only useful if the camera was pointed in the right direction. Useful audio may or may not be present, regardless of where the camera is pointed. Most of what I've dealt with has been with police MVRs (mobile vehicle recordings), which are a little different due to being made with a dash cam, but you'd be surprised how often I hear "this doesn't show the whole story," both from my officers and from defense counsel.
   
3. In accordance with #1 above, cameras have to be kept in working order. Additionally, maintenance or replacement records should be kept. If there are criminal charges brought or, especially, if there's a civil case later (where there's no 5th Amendment right to keep silent), you can bet that the plaintiff's lawyer will be asking about that camera if he finds out about it. If it wasn't working, he'll ask for maintenance records.
   
   • Did it work when you bought it?
     
   • When did it quit working?
     
   • Did you take it for repair?
     
   • Do you have records?
   • Why not? (Which may be followed with "that's convenient . . . "
4. If you make a video, you have to figure out when and how long you're going to keep the video. The same reasons that will drive the aforementioned plaintiff's lawyer to ask about the maintenance records will also prompt him to ask about other videos. For example, let's say I have a verbal altercation with a stranger at a convenience store, which is recorded by my body cam. A month later, I record over that file. Three months after that, I run into the same stranger at a convenience store, get in another altercation, and wind up shooting him in SD. I expect these from the lawyer for the decedent's estate or family:
   • Had you ever met X before?
   • When, where, how?
   • Did you own that body cam at the time?
     Did it work?
   • Did you have an argument with him?
   • Was it recorded?
   • Do you have the recording?
   • Did you intentionally destroy that recording?
   • How long do you keep recordings?
   • Do you destroy them regularly?
   • Do you have what would amount to a "recording retention and destruction policy?"
   • Why did you destroy this recording?
   • That seems awfully convenient.

 

[CapnMac]

Too be quite clear from above, the HD CCD in my dash cam is a smidge less than the diameter of a 1911 recoil spring bushing. It uses a microSD card for storage (the 32GB card I have will store about 40-50 hours of video in 5 minute increments).

What that suggests to me is that a recoil spring guide video camera is possible, technologically. A grip-based style like the Crimson Trace ones would seem equally likely. If we "stole" a concept off the Holosun sights, a motion-baed "on" switch and modern battery-use tech would make such a device relatively "low fuss."

Now, for "action" gun matches, this would be really cool--a "guns's eye view." For the everyday, well, that can of worms we have touched on above.

Would make for an excellent training aid, though--did you sweep yourself or others, well, here's the proof of it or not. (Come to think of it, might solve some of the arguing about "breaking the 170/180" at some matches, too . . . )

 

[Browning]

A vehicle cam is a good idea. We've had them in the ambulance for about 10 years and they've already saved me twice. That might help you in road rage situations.

Wearing a body cam if you aren't LE might sink you though. Any potential prosecutor is sure to label the wearer as a wanna-be cop.

With the amount of smart phones equipped with video cameras and surveillance cameras out there outside and inside homes and businesses if you're ever thrust into a situation that turns into you defending yourself or a loved one it might be a good idea to act as if you're being recorded anyway. Because there's a good chance that you are.