Bolting a safe through carpeted floor

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shamster

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I just got a new Browning safe, which is a little over 400 lbs in weight. The main issue I have is that it is sitting on plush carpeting, and as a result, the safe is a little wobbly since it is so front heavy due to the door. I would like to bolt it to the ground so there's no more risk of it tipping forward.

Any advice on how to easily bolt it through carpeted floor, with regular hardwood underneath (it is on the 2nd level of the house, with just the family room underneath)? Now, I am not looking to over-secure it to the floor so that nobody can cart the safe out. My main concern is just to prevent it from wobbling. I did think about bolting it against the wall too, but there is an AC/heat vent in the back, and I would like to leave about an inch of clearance for that.

Also, there are two holes in the bottom of the safe already, which was drilled to allow fastening to the shipping crate. The holes are on the front and back side of the floor, right in the middle. Can these holes be used, or do I still need to drill 4 holes in the corners?

Thanks in advance!
 
if it's only about keeping it stable then those holes should be fine as long as the floor boards are fully secured. all i did was put a couple of 14g screws through the floor.
 
I had a lot of trouble with a similar problem in the first two houses I had my safe in. Despite all efforts of changing and tightening the bolts and shoring it up on my part I could not get it to stop wobbling. Eventually I admitted that I would have to just slice out a square of carpet for it to sit in, which I did and the problem stopped.

Of course if you go for this route be absolutely sure of where you want your safe to reside, so as you don't end up with uncovered pieces of floor everywhere. Also keep in mind that my safe is quite tall and narrow, which I believe contributed to the problem, so depending on the dimensions of your safe YMMV.
 
I suggest using screw-in wall anchors at the top of the wall with a 1/4"x1" strap alumininum at both ends at the top of the safe. This way you can leave some space for the fresh air vent. That will provide stability, which is what you're after, but obviously wont "support" the safe - like in an earthquake.:)
 
You could just shim the front. Get some of the little shims that they make to shim toilets, that might work for you. Or you could make some shims from a hard wood. I would try that before bolting it through the carpet.
 
Remember there is likely a tack strip at the wall, thus the safe wants to lean forward. Try a 1/2" or 3/4" solid shim (Piece of wood) at the front, this should stop it from wanting to tip forward.

Of course you could remove the carpet and save the peice, a good installer could patch it in later if you move. If you do a strap to the wall, you must hit a stud. A wall anchor in drywall won't stop a 400lb (Plus Guns & Ammo) safe from tipping over. Also, securing the safe from the inside to the floor & wall make it all that much more difficult for anyone to remove it. (However, Nothing is impossible!)
 
Regarding the need for space behind the safe: Screw a strip (or two) of wood to the wall (through the studs) and then screw the safe into that. It'll hold the safe away from the wall and will keep it from tipping.

You might find going this route also keeps it from tipping... and you wouldn't have to worry about mounting it to the floor.
 
If it is wall-to-wall carpet, there is (as mentioned above) a tackless strip which keeps the carpeting taut to the wall.

If the back of the safe is along the edge of carpet, then it is on top of this tackless strip. A tackless strip would be about 1 1/4" wide and about 1/4" thick (plus the length of the nails which are all anged (points) toward the baseboard (wall).

If this is the case, then, as recommended by others, all you need is some kind of shims in the front as well as the tackless in the back.

If you don't care about the floor underneath, then 1/2" diamater lag screws (with hex bolt heads) should suffice to secure the safe so it won't fall over. You could pull the carpet back just enough to remove a section of the tackless strip in the area where the safe will go, and carefully drill pilot holes in the carpet and floor for the 1/2" diamater lag screws.

Typically, when you drill through carpeting, it will all start winding up on the drill bit, and pull long lines of yard from the carpet! If this MIGHT happen, you want to somehow mark the hole locations, pull the carpet back drill pilot holes into the floor and then put the carpet in place, cutting with an extremely sharp utility knife (new blade) a small X where the holes will be.

Get lag screws that are long enough to go through the bottom of the safe and extend about 2" into the floor. Hopefully, there are no heating or hot & cold pipes under this and no wires.

Using a socket set (or wrench), install the two bolts through the bottom and into the floor. You may want a 1/2" washer or two under each bolt head, however it sounds as if this safe bottom is rather thick steel, in which case the washers should not be necessary, unless the holes are larger than 1/2" diameter.
 
Is the vent behind this a large (like 2 foot square) metal grille in the wall? If so, that is a "return" register for your HVAC system. Unlike the little duct grilles in the floor where the hot air comes out, you REALLY don't want to block that off. There are rarely more than 2 of them (often only one) feeding your whole heating & A/C system. At the very least, I'd screw a couple of 2x4s horizontally behind the safe to keep it off the wall. More space would be better, and moving the safe someplace else would be best still.
Blocking off the return air will make your system work very poorly and could even damage it. (Quite possible to have your AC freeze solid, too.)

Further, often, those return grilles have filters in them that you should replace occasionally. You don't want a 400 lb. safe in front of it.

-Sam
 
Typically, when you drill through carpeting, it will all start winding up on the drill bit, and pull long lines of yard from the carpet! If this MIGHT happen, you want to somehow mark the hole locations, pull the carpet back drill pilot holes into the floor and then put the carpet in place, cutting with an extremely sharp utility knife (new blade) a small X where the holes will be.
Click to expand...

Or if you got access well stocked tool rental place or similar, you can see if they have one of the plug cutters that are made for just that. You'd be surprised how many "installer" type jobs use/need those things. Anyone who needs to bolt something to the floor of an office building after the carpet goes in, will have at least one. just make sure the hole is slightly larger than the drill bit.

If you can find one, whacking a hollow steel punch with a hammer is alot less frustrating and labor intensive than having to peel back the carpet and padding etc.
 
I agree with Sam.

For some reason, I thought the vent was part of the safe (double-duuhh on my part, sorry)!

Sam is Absolutely Correct!

You do not want to block a hot air (winter-heat) or cold air (summer-air conditioning) return! :uhoh:

Like Sam says, a couple of 2x4's against the wall (studs), lying down so the safe is 3 1/2" from the wall would be good, moving the safe away from the wall vent would be best. All this taking into consideration that the wall vent is acually connected to something! Of course, if it leads to NOWHERE, then it wouldn't matter if it is covered or not. The advantage of 2x4's secured to the wall (into studs using 6" sheetrock screws - lubed with bar soap filling the screw threads and a pilot hole drilled). Bear in mind that when you suck the sheetrock up tight to the studs with the 2x4's, you may end up with various popped sheetrock fastener heads in the vicinity of the 2x4's!

If you aren't sure, run both the heat and then the AC and hold a piece of toilet paper in front of the vent. If it is sucking air, you will see it (you probably could actually tell without the toilet paper movement - if it is a strong draft).
 
Bear in mind that when you suck the sheetrock up tight to the studs with the 2x4's, you may end up with various popped sheetrock fastener heads in the vicinity of the 2x4's!
Click to expand...

Hee hee...the voice of experience speaks!

-Sam
 
Thanks for the input guys!

Unfortunately, there really isn't any other place to put the safe. In fact, one of the reasons I settled for that size safe (24" wide) is because I simply wouldn't have room for anything that is much bigger. I don't want to put it in the basement since it is so far away for me to have easy access to it, high humidity, plus a lot of people go through my basement, and having it there is a dead giveaway that I have guns. The same goes for almost any other room on the 1st floor. Lots of windows that people could potentially see through. Also, I like having it in my room cause almost nobody who doesn't live here ever goes into my room, and I have tighter control over who even gets to see it. I have 2 young kids at home, and when they have friends over in the future, I'd rather a bunch of kids not see the safe either.

Right now, I have about 2.5" of space between the safe and the wall. I have seen the tack strips on the floor prior to our carpet being put in, so I'm pretty sure the safe is not resting on the strip (they are usually about 1" wide right)? Next to the safe is a chest (dresser), and there is over a 2" gap between the two. If I look down through the gap, I can see the vent, so hopefully that helps a little with circulation too. I suppose I could move the safe another inch further from the wall if I really had to, but anything more would make it protrude enough to be an eyesore. Oh, btw, I am married and my wife is pretty vocal about what looks acceptable or not in our room ;)

Anyhow, I will entertain some of the ideas presented. The shim idea is pretty interesting. I have thought about cutting out a perfect square on the carpet so the safe can sit on hardwood floor, with no part of the exposed floor being visible. Of course, I have to work pretty hard in convincing the wife to do this, especially since we renovated the master bedroom a few years ago, and she likes this carpet.

Oh, btw, I got the safe up to the 2nd floor by having professional movers do it. Actually cheaper than using the "white glove service" offered by some companies (where they ship the safe, bring it upstairs, and set it up for you).
 
Right now, I have about 2.5" of space between the safe and the wall.
Click to expand...

Well, first, make sure what kind of vent you're blocking. If it's putting conditioned air into the room, you can block it off with pretty much no consequence beyond the loss of heating and cooling to that room. If it's drawing air out of the room, like I said, you really want to be careful.

In either case, check before you do this to make sure there isn't a serviceable filter in that grille. If there is a filter there, simply do not put the safe there, period. Unless you can -- and will -- move that safe every few months to replace the filter...

A full 2.5" gap between the back of the safe and the grille will be pretty adequate for ventilation purposes as long as nothing is butted up against the sides of the safe. It must be able to draw air from all around.

As inconvenient as an unsightly safe is, or as worrisome as someone else's kids seeing your safe sometime may be, killing your heat pump would be infinitely worse.

-Sam
 
It draws air in I believe. Also no filter in there. I have yet to even open up the grille. But in any case, there is a full 2.5" of space in between, with nothing else prohibiting air flow on the sides.
A friend told me that you don't need to drill into the floor. He said with the proper length lag bolt, you can simply hand screw it through the bottom of the safe (assuming there is a hole already drilled through the metal), and it will be no problem "catching" the floor, even through carpet. He's done this before in the past with success. Will this be adequate if the purpose is just for preventing tip overs?
 
Well, you'll still need to drill a pilot hole. Screwing a lag screw into a hardwood floor (even a little 1/4" one) is going to be a pain in the rear, if you even manage to get it started -- the gimlet point on a lag screw isn't going to "bite" without a pilot hole to seat in. Even if it could bite, forcing a 1/4" or better lag screw through a strip of hardwood flooring without a pilot hole is going to split, splinter, and destroy that piece of flooring, so don't try.

Assuming your house is less than 50 years old, your hardwood floors are laid over a sub-floor of 3/4" plywood (or oriented-strand board if less than 20 years old). So you have about 1-1/2" of wood for your lag screws to bite into. If you're only going for hitting the sub-floor, pick a short lag screw. If you get a 6" long one, the unthreaded shank under the head will be all that's actually biting into the wood by the time you get it all the way seated. A 1-1/2" or 2" long lag screw should be sufficient if that's all you're doing.

Don't over-tighten them and they'll do an o.k. job of keeping your safe from wobbling. You could probably put enough tension on them to settle the safe down into the carpet and padding and it won't move. Remember though that there isn't much material there that you're threading into, so if you get over-happy with the wrench you'll just strip the threads out of the wood.

For real strength, though, you should try to hit the floor joists below the sub-floor. They are generally 16" on-center (14-1/2" clear space between them), and are probably either 7-1/4" or 9-1/4" tall, standing on edge between the ceiling of the floor below and the sub-floor above. You could put a 4" lag screw into those and be quite secure. The real trick will be finding the first one. The next trick will be guessing which way they run.

Good luck!

-Sam
 
Make sure the vent is not a supply register. If cold a/c air blows on the metal safe, the inside could sweat, the last thing you want on your guns.
 
I mounted my gun safe in the concrete floor of my garage right at the entrance to my house. My safe is a bit heavier than yours and I didn't think the flooring would handle the weight.
 
Monday morning idea (so be kind:))..........

Before you install the safe, relocate the air return to just above safe height. Pretty simple work, and would allow you to anchor safe to wall and maintain free airflow. Will also keep top of safe free of dust;)
 
So, I thought about things a little more and talked to the wife about it too. We decided that it would be "acceptable" to relocate the safe to the basement, and just buy a smaller safe for a nightstand gun and other smaller valuables.

My main concern is, the only place that I could put the safe and have it sit flush against the masonry wall is a location close to the basement window (the short rectangular kind that sits along the ground from the outside). Thus, someone could easily see in. That said, the basement is usually dark, so one would have to shine a light through it. There is another wall I could put it on, but there is the main sewage pipe that runs along the bottom of the wall, so I would not be able to put the safe flush against the wall. Also, you could see in from the window just the same...it's just a bit further from the window. One final option is I could put the safe under the staircase. However, there would be no wall around it, so it would be as if it is freestanding in the middle of the room.

Basement humidity is a concern, but I could always get one of those safe dehumidifiers. As for the visibility issue, I could throw a large towel/blanket over it, but not sure if that will really make it any less obvious that it's a gun safe.

Any votes as to if I should move it to the basement, or just leave it in the bedroom? My main concern with the bedroom is that I have little ones that like to climb and hang off things, and I'm more than a little worried about them grabbing the handles of the safe and hanging off it.
 
I vote basement with a smaller container in the bedroom for you readied defense weapon(s).

Oh, and curtains/blinds in those windows would be good too.


hth
 
You really need to re-evaluate your safe's location. As others have pointed out, the cold air returns and the heated air supply vents are supposed to operate unobstructed. The best outcome you could have is an unsuitable environment in side your safe. At worst, you may prematurely wear out your heating/air system.

The key to any good heating and air system is its duct work. Properly sized, the systems are quiet and efficient. Undersized they can be noisy and choke down the system where it will not heat or cool your home. A choked down system will also increase your operating costs (fan/compressor run longer and harder).

Your wife may have to concede to rearranging the furniture to find a more suitable safe location, but that is far cheaper than an injured child or replacing the heat/air unit.

Back to your original question, it is alwasy best to bolt to the wall. If you do not, the entire safe works as a lever to pry the bolt/lag screws loose.

PS If that vent is drawing air, it should have a filter in it to keep your duct work clean and to prevent dust from migrating to your condenser coils and blocking the air flow through them.
 
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Put it in the basement, bolt it to the wall and floor, if you're concerned about it being ID'ed as a safe, cover the basement windows in some fashion.
Also if you can build a box you can disguise the safe as a some form of storage, maybe even build the cabinet oversize, with shelves along side the safe, and store crap that needs to be secured but not in the safe.

no matter what anyone says, all any safe short of a legitimate purpose built Vault (as in a bunker like structure) is really only there to discourage casual thieves, or at least force a thief to make alot of noise/spend more time that it's worth to them.
 
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