Sindawe
Member
Right on cue. When the demand for skilled tech folks makes a slight uptick, and those who've been out of the field for a few years are now getting nibbles, its time to kick'em back down.
Booming economy needs more H-1B visas
- Thread starter Sindawe
- Start date
- Status
Right on cue. When the demand for skilled tech folks makes a slight uptick, and those who've been out of the field for a few years are now getting nibbles, its time to kick'em back down.
Glock Glockler
Member
Should the govt be protecting either domestic corporations or domestic tech workers?
jeff-10
Member
I am far from a libertarian but personally I believe really smart ambitious people should be able to come to the US and work. This country is so filled up with lazy, non-educated, mediocre people demanding a job or even better yet a hand-out we need all the truly productive workers we can get. Contrary to popular belief skilled and talented workers are always in demand. You may have to relocate, start at the bottom or take job you feel is beneath you but there is something out there for everyone.
Kodiaz
member
Govt of the corparations, for the corporations, by the corporations. That's the real problem.
Kodiaz
member
Jeff what business are you in and what do you make a year.
This is what happens in the tech sector.
Ad get put in paper for tech job for 30k a year noone answers ad because thats is a super low salary for all the years of college and training after college. Then the corporations that put the ad in the paper tell the govt. we need more foreigners to work here because no one here is applying for our job. They leave out the part about them offering a salary that is not enough to pay rent and student loans. Forget about ever owning a house on that wage. The said manufacturing is going overseas but there will be service jobs then they import a bunch of foreigners to do the service jobs for nothing.
Say good bye to the American dream.
Now when you wake up everyday and go to work your a sharecropper. A house costs too much to buy so you have to rent. The govt which has made the policies that screw us workers take a chunk of our money so we can keep getting shafted.
This is what happens in the tech sector.
Ad get put in paper for tech job for 30k a year noone answers ad because thats is a super low salary for all the years of college and training after college. Then the corporations that put the ad in the paper tell the govt. we need more foreigners to work here because no one here is applying for our job. They leave out the part about them offering a salary that is not enough to pay rent and student loans. Forget about ever owning a house on that wage. The said manufacturing is going overseas but there will be service jobs then they import a bunch of foreigners to do the service jobs for nothing.
Say good bye to the American dream.
Now when you wake up everyday and go to work your a sharecropper. A house costs too much to buy so you have to rent. The govt which has made the policies that screw us workers take a chunk of our money so we can keep getting shafted.
pcf
Member
Can you show me where there's a pool of unemployed or underemployed, well educated professionals (I'm talking masters and doctorate level), because corporations can hire immigrants for less, please point it out. Can any of you show where visas for Indian doctors, African chemists, or a Taiwanese engineers, are taking jobs from their American counterparts?
You guys got it all figured out, fewer visas for American corporations, which is another incentive for them to move operations overseas, which leads to mass layoffs of American workers, which inturn, will protect American jobs and workers.
You guys got it all figured out, fewer visas for American corporations, which is another incentive for them to move operations overseas, which leads to mass layoffs of American workers, which inturn, will protect American jobs and workers.
Kodiaz
member
edited to nothing.
When your A/C breaks and 5 guys go to your house and can't fix it call me.
I am expensive.
When your A/C breaks and 5 guys go to your house and can't fix it call me.
I am expensive.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,712
It's not the people coming here LEGALLY
a lousy 65,00 at per year (actually per 6-year permit) that I am concerned with. A recent radio interview with an Arizona Sheriff said something like 6,000 per night are coming across in his jurisdiction alone, and they were catching 25%...which may be better than some points..
a lousy 65,00 at per year (actually per 6-year permit) that I am concerned with. A recent radio interview with an Arizona Sheriff said something like 6,000 per night are coming across in his jurisdiction alone, and they were catching 25%...which may be better than some points..
cracked butt
Member
Draining talent and brains away from other countries is the way America will stay ahead. Which country do you think gains more- China who encourages unskilled manufacturing to move from America to China, or America who encourages Engineers and scientest from China to work here?
If someone comes into this country and does a job for less that you are doing it, it might mean that you are overpaid. Personally, I'd favor long term American technological supremecy over the the ability for a union flunkie to buy a new boat or big screen tv right now.
If someone comes into this country and does a job for less that you are doing it, it might mean that you are overpaid. Personally, I'd favor long term American technological supremecy over the the ability for a union flunkie to buy a new boat or big screen tv right now.
Nathanael_Greene
Member
jeff-10 said:
Too true, alas. Everyone's career is his own personal responsibility, something too many Americans have forgotten (or never realized), but a lot of immigrants get the idea pretty quick.
What I'd like to see, though, is the flip side, too--if we're going to let in people who are smart and ambitious, let's get rid of those who are here illegally and are a detriment to society.
jeff-10
Member
Uh, not information I normally disclose on the internet. I make enough to pay all my bills and max out my 401k and still buy guns.
That being said I know that good tech type jobs are hard to come by, I try to steer all my friends who have interest in computers away from those type of jobs. Ditto with real estate jobs. Still don't see how keeping the brightest people in the world out of this country is a good thing.blackdragon
Member
Part of the requirement of an H1B staffing is that the job *must* pay at least the prevailing wage...and may even pay more than the prevailing wage.
Now, truthfully, some companies do pay their H1Bs properly on paper only, but do you really want to work for a company that sleezy?
There does need to be some reform. I am biased though, as I am on an H1b, trying to go permanent. I cannot understand how it after 4 years, far too much $$, an educated Canadian (fluent in english, btw) who desperately wants to be an american is not even 1/3 of the way to permanentcy (never mind the 5 extra years before citizenship).
Sorry for the rant
But like someone else said, 65k/yr, with enforced minimum salaries shouldn't be at the top of anyones worry list.
Now, truthfully, some companies do pay their H1Bs properly on paper only, but do you really want to work for a company that sleezy?
There does need to be some reform. I am biased though, as I am on an H1b, trying to go permanent. I cannot understand how it after 4 years, far too much $$, an educated Canadian (fluent in english, btw) who desperately wants to be an american is not even 1/3 of the way to permanentcy (never mind the 5 extra years before citizenship).
Sorry for the rant
But like someone else said, 65k/yr, with enforced minimum salaries shouldn't be at the top of anyones worry list.
beerslurpy
member
pcf said:
Youre mistaken. No one except academic institutions care about advanced degrees. If these guys are unemployed, its because they have unrealistic ideas of what their skills are worth to the average business.
There is a huge pool of jobs that dont exist in this country because companies would rather outsource than do the job right the first time. Often they spend 5-10 years chasing illusory savings while not getting projects completed. Its a major trap for greedy yet stupid companies, and a major windfall for consulting firms who love the idea of billing out work at 100/hr while paying 5/hr.
There is no advantage to getting an advanced degree as a programmer. Ok, there is, but it wont be a degree in anything computer related. Typically a programmer will realize that he has topped out by his late 20s and get:
-an MBA and move into management for bigger bucks (I have friends doing this)
-a JD and move into lawyering for bigger bucks (I'm doing this)
I am waiting to hear back from law schools right now and I'm gonna sit for the patent bar this summer.
Lawyering is great because:
-theyre a self regulated monopoly with huge barriers to entry
-no dangers of H1Bs or outsourcing
-the country is run by lawyers and has been since the beginning. Laws are written by lawyers and interpreted by lawyers and judges (who are themselves lawyers). The likelihood of congress or the judiciary screwing lawyers is low.
-the money is nice, I've heard
There is no advantage to getting an advanced degree as a programmer.
Don't know if I agree completely with that statement, but it does seem to be true in my working environment. The majority of our programmers were community college-educated, and in some cases programming wasn't the main focus of their education.
Most of the 'high-tech' workers I'm involved with are contractors working for companies of all sizes. Most of us are working on .gov contracts. In today's environment, foreign workers are a security red flag, and clearances cost money to perform. When I had a clearance, it cost my company something on the order of four figures to complete. The foreign workers on visa's will more likely be working in the private sector. I'm beginning to forget there ever was a private sector.
Anyway, I'm not competing with foreign tech who are driving my wage down. I don't know what we're all making, but I know I command a lower salary because of my lack of formal education. The same probably applies to my coworkers. We're less worried about losing our jobs to foreign competition than to another domestic contracting company coming in and outbidding us, buying us all up and forcing us to go through yet another round of corporate indoctrination.
jmm
Don't know if I agree completely with that statement, but it does seem to be true in my working environment. The majority of our programmers were community college-educated, and in some cases programming wasn't the main focus of their education.
Most of the 'high-tech' workers I'm involved with are contractors working for companies of all sizes. Most of us are working on .gov contracts. In today's environment, foreign workers are a security red flag, and clearances cost money to perform. When I had a clearance, it cost my company something on the order of four figures to complete. The foreign workers on visa's will more likely be working in the private sector. I'm beginning to forget there ever was a private sector.
Anyway, I'm not competing with foreign tech who are driving my wage down. I don't know what we're all making, but I know I command a lower salary because of my lack of formal education. The same probably applies to my coworkers. We're less worried about losing our jobs to foreign competition than to another domestic contracting company coming in and outbidding us, buying us all up and forcing us to go through yet another round of corporate indoctrination.
jmm
how about we stop training the worlds engineers and doctors and train some american kids instead. My daughter is applying to many colleges and Universities around the US and all we see is come here and meet the world. in some schools 50% of the post grad spots are being taken by no US nationals. No wonder we do not have anyUS trained post docs, they are all from India, China, Ukraine, Israel, pakistan. It is sickening that we with our tax dollars are supporting the education of those who will be trying to take our jobs away. And do not think that they all just want to stay here. I know a Indian Grad student who is returning home in a year, he will be a PHD and will make about 2/3 of what he could make here as a Doctoral level scientist. But he will be living in a country where that 2/3 income will go ten or more times farther. He has told me that he will have a income equivilent to 400K a year starting getting out of school. He will have house staff and be able to own a home and a "resort" their equal of our "cabins" in his first year. and he has been here on a full scholarship. completely paid for by american tax payers.
we do not need more Visa's we need more american kids in american schools learning to be american engineers and scientists. No more taxpayers support for foreign national students. No more supplements and taxpayer funding for Universities that sell out America.
we do not need more Visa's we need more american kids in american schools learning to be american engineers and scientists. No more taxpayers support for foreign national students. No more supplements and taxpayer funding for Universities that sell out America.
blackdragon
Member
pete,
You are thinking of the wrong visas -- H1B's are working visa's, not educational ones. To get an H1B, you *already* have that education.
The educations visas (Fs maybe) are fine, I think, but rather than grants and scholarships, those on the visa's should pay *extra* so that US residents can pay less. That would sound fair to me
You are thinking of the wrong visas -- H1B's are working visa's, not educational ones. To get an H1B, you *already* have that education.
The educations visas (Fs maybe) are fine, I think, but rather than grants and scholarships, those on the visa's should pay *extra* so that US residents can pay less. That would sound fair to me
ID_shooting
Member
As I sit here in my "over paid" tech job that is currently being outsourced by a huge billion dollar company, I feel qualified to toss my thoughts in.
"This country is so filled up with lazy, non-educated, mediocre people demanding a job or even better yet a hand-out we need all the truly productive workers we can get. Contrary to popular belief skilled and talented workers are always in demand. You may have to relocate, start at the bottom or take job you feel is beneath you but there is something out there for everyone."
Lets see, I make between 35 and 40 K, 1 wife, 1 kid, <100k house, 10 year old truck, 10 year old car, 12 ft aluminum boat, and nowhere near enough guns and not enough money left over at the end of the month to put any in savings.
For the 5th year in a row I am rated as a top performer in my team, for the 5th year in a row, I am told there will be no raises. For the 5th year in a row my cost of living has gone up, health insurance has gone up, 401k cut in half.
But yet I can be labled as lazy and mediocre.
For those that say, just get a new job, well, they layed off 60% of us in the last couple of years, think there are any tech jobs available? Not hardly, I could find other work today, if I wanted to loose the house to forclosure and be sued into homelessness for not paying my bills.
"This country is so filled up with lazy, non-educated, mediocre people demanding a job or even better yet a hand-out we need all the truly productive workers we can get. Contrary to popular belief skilled and talented workers are always in demand. You may have to relocate, start at the bottom or take job you feel is beneath you but there is something out there for everyone."
Lets see, I make between 35 and 40 K, 1 wife, 1 kid, <100k house, 10 year old truck, 10 year old car, 12 ft aluminum boat, and nowhere near enough guns and not enough money left over at the end of the month to put any in savings.
For the 5th year in a row I am rated as a top performer in my team, for the 5th year in a row, I am told there will be no raises. For the 5th year in a row my cost of living has gone up, health insurance has gone up, 401k cut in half.
But yet I can be labled as lazy and mediocre.
For those that say, just get a new job, well, they layed off 60% of us in the last couple of years, think there are any tech jobs available? Not hardly, I could find other work today, if I wanted to loose the house to forclosure and be sued into homelessness for not paying my bills.
Manedwolf
member
jeff-10 said:
I'll tell that to my friends with multiple master's degrees, who worked HARD all the way through school so they could get into high-tech, only to be replaced by someone in India who makes 1/8 what they would need in salary to afford a bad apartment in a ghetto.
You can't compete with the third-world wages and live, here.
blackdragon
Member
Here is the beauty of H1Bs...
"replaced by someone in India" doesnt happen...becuase that Indian dude comes *here*, and gets paid prevailing wage. No incentive to hire him, *if* americans are available (legal costs and hassle makes companies shy away from H1Bs)
Don't get H1Bs confused with outsourcing to 3rd world countries. Bringing other countries best and brighest here helps America, sending work over there hurts America.
"replaced by someone in India" doesnt happen...becuase that Indian dude comes *here*, and gets paid prevailing wage. No incentive to hire him, *if* americans are available (legal costs and hassle makes companies shy away from H1Bs)
Don't get H1Bs confused with outsourcing to 3rd world countries. Bringing other countries best and brighest here helps America, sending work over there hurts America.
Sindawe
Member
I'm in same boad ID_shooting, 'cept since I don't have a wife or child I can at least squirrel away a bit at the end of each month for a rainy day. Which is good, since I had a rainy day last Oct and had to replace my then 15 y/o car.
AND we need to stop filling those positions for engineers and scientists with those from overseas while our own supply go begging. Why study the hard stuff if there are no jobs for 'em?
Waitone
Member
Try being 50+ years old and try to get a job working for someone else. Ain't gonna happen regardless of how good a employee you are.
Hint: pretty soon a new crisis will surface which will require government to correct the problem, never mond government is what created the problem.
College is the futures market for America's prospects. The number of people going into the technical is falling rapidly to the point the people causing the problem are worried. No one in their right mind will willingly invest time and money to get a degree that will not pay the costs, ergo don't enroll.
Hint: pretty soon a new crisis will surface which will require government to correct the problem, never mond government is what created the problem.
Henry Bowman
Senior Member
Legal fees cost the company about $10,000 per H1B. That's at midwest rates.
- Status