Border chief says citizen volunteers could form patrol auxiliary (merged threads)

[David]

Do You Want To Be A BORDER PATROL Volunteer ???

Sounds like the Border Patrol may be changing its mind, and may soon welcome the help of volunteer groups like the Minutemen to be their "extra eyes and ears."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/national/21border.html?pagewanted=print&oref=login

July 21, 2005
Border Patrol Considering Use of Volunteers, Official Says
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOS ANGELES, July 20 (AP) - The nation's top border enforcement official said Wednesday that his agency was exploring ways to involve citizen volunteers in creating "something akin to a Border Patrol auxiliary."

The statement marks a significant shift and comes after a high-profile civilian campaign this spring along the Arizona-Mexico border.

The official, Robert C. Bonner, commissioner of United States Customs and Border Protection, said his agency had focused on involving citizens after noting the willingness of volunteers to help federal agents catch illegal immigrants.

"It is actually as a result of seeing that there is the possibility in local border communities, and maybe even beyond, of having citizens that would be willing to volunteer to help the Border Patrol," Mr. Bonner said.

"We value having eyes and ears of citizens, and I think that would be one of the things we are looking at is how you better organize, let's say, a citizen effort," he said.

Mr. Bonner characterized the idea as an area his agency was considering.

Questions regarding what kind of authority the volunteers would have and whether they could make arrests or carry guns have not been worked out, he said.

In April, hundreds of volunteers joined the Minuteman Project to patrol a 23-mile stretch of the Arizona-Mexico border, generating international attention and criticism and leading to similar campaigns.

Until now, Border Patrol officials have generally criticized civilian efforts to police the nation's borders, saying it was the job of trained law enforcement officers. President Bush has expressed his opposition to border "vigilantes."

"The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well trained to handle the situation," Mr. Bonner said in February, noting that the Minutemen planned to carry firearms. "Ordinary Americans are not. So there's a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation."
******

 

[grampster]

It's an interesting notion that ought to be thoughtfuly considered by all adult men and women. We should be mutually grounded in the belief that if one comes here, one should be as open as our society tries to be, and then contribute to the well being of that society and culture.

 

[DelayedReaction]

Here's an idea. Hire illegal immigrants, pay them the same wages they get for picking fruit or other jobs, and after a specified time of dedicated service grant them citizenship. Basically work for amnesty.

 

[TheDutchman]

Border chief says citizen volunteers could form patrol auxiliary

LOS ANGELES — The top U.S. border enforcement official said Wednesday that his agency is exploring ways to involve citizen volunteers in creating "something akin to a Border Patrol auxiliary" — a significant shift after a high-profile civilian campaign this spring along the Arizona-Mexico border.

Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner told The Associated Press that his agency began looking into citizen involvement after noting how eager volunteers were to stop illegal immigration.

"We value having eyes and ears of citizens, and I think that would be one of the things we are looking at is how you better organize, let's say, a citizen effort," Bonner said.

He said that could involve training of volunteers organized "in a way that would be something akin to a Border Patrol auxiliary."

Bonner characterized the idea of an auxiliary as "an area we're looking at," and a spokeswoman said it hadn't been discussed yet with top Homeland Security officials.

"This is what we need to study," said Bonner, who was in Los Angeles to discuss port security. He said questions such as what kind of authority volunteers might be given — for example, would they be deputized to make arrests — would have to be answered.

Until now, Border Patrol officials have generally criticized civilian efforts to police the nation's borders, saying that was the job of trained law enforcement officers. President Bush has also expressed opposition to border "vigilantes."

But in April, hundreds of volunteers converged on a 23-mile stretch of the Arizona-Mexico border, and the Minuteman Project generated international attention.

The following month, Bonner told Congress that if the government were to "better and more effectively harness the citizen volunteers," it would need to provide "some insights, possibly even training."

A labor leader who represents Border Patrol agents questioned the idea of volunteer involvement after hearing about Bonner's suggestion Wednesday.

"If he's sanctioning something akin to the Minuteman Project, it would be irresponsible to place ordinary citizens in harm's way," said T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council and no relation to Robert Bonner.

Minuteman Project founder Jim Gilchrist said he liked the idea but doubted it would happen.

Migrants' advocate Enrique Morones of Border Angels, a San Diego group that gives water to immigrants who cross the California-Mexico border, called it "a recipe for disaster."

"You'll have all of these unqualified yahoos being given license to promote hate," he said.

Bonner said the agency would examine how other auxiliaries operate to come up with a possible model. The Coast Guard Auxiliary, for example, has 30,000 members trained to help with such non-law enforcement programs as public education, vessel safety checks and safety patrols.

Customs and Border Protection spokeswoman Kristi Clemens said Homeland Security officials would be briefed on the idea once the agency came up with a proposal.

"All proposals are being considered, including clerical work by volunteers that would free up more agents to secure our borders," she said.


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July 20, 2005 - 10:07 p.m. CDT

 

[El Tejon]

About time. I don't know why they didn't coopt the militia boys from the get go.

Give them junior g-man badges, radios, a lawn chair and water, stick them out in the desert and make political points which will result in bigger budgets.

 

[Waitone]

What better way to control something that makes you look bad than by setting up fed.gov approved Junion BP units. You know, kinda like Explorer Scouts.

What happened in April on the border was successful, effective, popular, and put to the lie the administration's claim nothing could be done to stop crossers. It has all the elements of an impending political disaster for the elites. The Border Militia has to be discredited (nope, it worked), stopped (nope, it is expanding), or controlled (ding, ding, ding).

 

[c_yeager]

I suspect that the new organization under the BP will be a completely innefective "feel good" measure. Hand some people a pair of binoculars and a radio and say to call if they see anything, of course wether or not someone shows up is left to the imagination. I suspect that the only reason the BP shows up for the MinuteMen is because of the media fiasco if they didnt.

This whole project is likely intended to provide a good excuse for preventing the minutemen from continuing their operations. Who needs "vigilantes" when the government is providing citizens with a means to help?

 

[beerslurpy]

Gosh, I once heard this crazy idea that citizen volunteers could make up the whole military. All they would have to do is practice marksman ship a few times a year and keep ammo on hand. But it sounds stupid. How could 100 million gun owners possibly withstand the might of the million-strong chinese army? Or the French, who have a deadly reputation for marksmanship? And how would we invade other countries to keep them safe from terrorism? Can you imagine if congress actually had to declare war? What pacificist crazyness.

I also heard this crazy idea that the government has no business luring poor people into the country with handouts. Something about socialism not being in the constitution. But what does that have to do with anything?

Ayn Rand had some still-relevant things to say about the wisdom of giving handouts to the Peoples Republic of Mexico.

 

[TarpleyG]

I think c-yeager is spot on. Sounds like they want to control it to prevent future groups (read vigilantes) from actually accomplishing anything. Add a dose of .gov regulation and it'll bog down so bad it's bound to fail. Ask the Coast Guard "Auxillary" how effective they are. All they do is give complimentary boats inspections now days.

Greg

 

[Lennyjoe]

Hmm, I remember saying something about a Civil Border Patrol a few months ago when the Minute Men were getting spun up.

 

[Khaotic]

Good points all - while I may not explicitly agree with the minutemen 100% or their views, they were and are willing to spend their own time and effort to make some gains at securing our rather porous borders, not only from illegal entry, but in the same respect from potential BG's.

That alone nets them a heaping helping of respect from me, even if I feel that some percentage of them are loose cannons and the like (but then, same could be said about ANY segment of the population, yes?) and even if I am not 100% in agreement with their concept and/or methods.

They're doing SOMETHING, and they are putting forth from their own to do it, and that deserves credit.

Imagine the egg on law enforcements face if they should luckily catch some terroristic BGs while they're at it.

Just cause one believes that 90% of the hoorah about terrorism is BS, doesn't mean there are NO terroristic BGs out there, mind you..

Keep up the good work, and don't let 'the man' co-opt you into uselessness folks!

-K

*PS - That shattering sound you hear is a "liberal" agreeing with a wise policy regardless that it was a "conservative" idea in the first place.
Don't trap yourself by dogma folks, we're all in this together - take all the support you can get, and don't shrug off a good idea or plan for political side-taking.

The High Road, after all, right ?

 

[TheEgg]

+1 to Waitone.

Co-opt them, then control them -- PR issue for BP resolved.

Net effect, open border, lots of illegal labor -- which is what the big boys in both Republican and Democratic circles want.

 

[dolanp]

The government doesn't support vigilantes... unless, er, um, they do a better job than we do.

 

[armoredman]

They will control the actions of volunteers, gradually reduce them to feel good border "watchers", then end up with them passing out water/leaflets/maps to illegal invaders....

 

[Punkermonkey]

DelayedReaction

Being a California resident and seeing migrant workers on a daily basis, I now the impact they have on our economy. Their contribution to our labor pool is significant. The jobs they are performing are menial and very laborious, often times getting paid no more that a few dollars (literally 4 or 5) an hour. Our state minimum wage is $6.75 an hour minus about $5 an hour for taxes.

A guest worker or amnesty program is ridiculous. Really, stop and think about it. It is bad business for both the employer and the employee. Lets say I'm a migrant worker, here illegally working for $4's an hour picking strawberries in the Imperial Valley. At the end of the week it get my pay check. No state, federal, local, or any other taxes taken out. I get better money than if I where working a legal job paying my taxes @ $6.75. So I don't get private health coverage, who cares! I can just go to the local emergency room and get treated, they can't deny me service! Best of all I can just skip out on the bill any way! It's not like I am worried about my credit rating if they send me to collections.

Now look at it from the employer's side. Suddenly all of my illegal labor pool is here legally. Now they want the minimum wage because they are entitled to it. I have 2 choices. Pay it to them or lay all of them off and hire a new group of illegal's and pay them less. There's a real no brainier.

Best of all, now that all of these legal migrants are out of work they can collect an unemployment check!

The only thing a guest worker plan does is increase the tax revenues and boost public relations.

 

[Conundrum]

Border chief says citizen volunteers could form patrol auxiliary

I thought that was what the MM effort was about.

 

[Aikibiker]

Punkermonkey,

I thought the illegals in CA had unionized and were getting more then minimum wage now.

Civilian volunteers watching the borders? Seems I heard something about that a while ago and the .gov said it was unecessary.

 

[Mixlesplick]

"If he's sanctioning something akin to the Minuteman Project, it would be irresponsible to place ordinary citizens in harm's way," said T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council and no relation to Robert Bonner.

Would the Border Patrol allow any of its patrol auxilary volunteers to carry a pistol for self defense under the auspice of state law while watching the border?

 

[Punkermonkey]

Aikibiker

Their unionization was loose and poorly represented at best. If I remember correctly, the most that got them was set work hours and overtime pay. I am fairly sure that they are all still making less than minimum wage.

I can appreciate your point however, with the employers currently breaking the law by hiring illegals in the first place, no union, worker visa, or amnesty program will prevent them from continuing to hire illegals in the future at a cut rate.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I guess I am in fact already a part of the patrol. Anytime I am out in the desert hunting or driving and I see illegals I call the Border Patrol on my cell and report the location. Most of the time I have my GPS on so I can give them the locations.

1-877-872-7435 speed dial #18 and the local number is (520) 407-2300 which is speed dail #19 on my cell phone.