Border Patrol shoots............dog (no it wasn't a Border Collie, very funny)

[ilbob]

Why is it that no matter how offensive and probably criminal LE behavior is, the innocent citizen involved is the one that gets charged and has his pet shot?

Is it any wonder 90% of the country no longer trusts cops?

 

[gunsmith]

that dogggie couldn't hurt a baby mouse!

look at the pic!!!
any LE who would shoot a tiny hamless doggie is a complete buffoon.
I an almost always in the pro LE columm in most of the threads here as my late dad and my very alive brother are LE, but this is a bit too much.
It's one of those little yappy dogs that are afraid of rabbits, that you keep your three year old away from because the KID will hurt the doggie
This is the kind of dog you whack on the nose with your finger, because two fingers would cause injury.

 

[stevetexas]

The neighbor of Nelson who posted the pic of the dog has posted a short video about the situation...

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-Am8N5f8jdKX6uCePMlcBaqUr?p=256

 

[Destructo6]

That video is comical. What a crackpot.

Blood stains right beside home? Bullet wound channel entering from rear? Sounds like the agent is a two-bit liar who shot the dog in spite.

This "forensic" information is coming from..."a friend" of the knucklehead who assaulted the agent. This bozo is lucky he didn't get shot, too.

 

[pcosmar]

Ok, doesn't add up

Maybe some kind of new math. Does not compute.
I just looked at some maps, watched some video, and connected some dots.
Sompn' ain't right.
I am pro immigration, but anti-illegal immigration. I don't hate anybody.
I am not anti LE, though I do question their policies often.

The agent said he was checking sensors.
This is an American town. A residential area. 10 miles from the border.
10 miles. Would it not make more sense to have sensors ON the border??
What good would sensors to in a residential community, with kids and dogs and people around all the time.
We have our government and the Mexican government working together,to short circuit border security. But they put sensors in an American neighborhood.
And we are building a Mexican Port in Kansas City.
My math skills are failing. It don't add up.

 

[The Amigo]

Well I believe the agent did wrong shooting the dog and should of maced him first if needed. But tackling an LEO is not the way to fix a problem. You will have more to loose in the long run. Most of all LEO depts have Internal affairs or a similar way of dealing with LEO,s with no common sense.

 

[TCB in TN]

If course we should let internal affairs take care of this, we ALL know that LE agency do such a good job of that.

But seriously, I don't want to hurt anyone, but there are a lot of things about this story that make NO sense. IF this BP officer is guilty of shooting the dog as accused, especially if it is in retaliation for an earlier encounter then he deserves far worse than just a sprained finger.

 

[ryoushi]

look at the pic!!!

If those two tweaker women are witnesses, I'd believe the BP Agent.

 

[Michael Courtney]

I think a lot depends on whether the dog was on the owner's peoperty when the agent shot him. For government agents to shoot privately owned animals on the owners property without having a warrant or probable cause to be on that private property is probably sufficient to make a reasonable home owner believe that the agent is acting outside of the law.

Uniformed or not, an armed man who unjustifiable shoots a homeowner's dog on private property might reasonably be considered a threat.

Michael Courtney

 

[ajax]

So ryoushi if those women were more attractive you would be more inclined to believe their story? I guess the beautiful people are the only ones that can be believed. I like your thought process.

 

[gunsmith]

I don't see any tweakers in that pic

I see a little doggie that couldn't hurt an invalid butterfly.

 

[nemoaz]

Yeah, Ace Moonbat Detective on the job. There really aren't words to describe the population of Bisbee. Basically, the few hippees stoners that survived the 60s congregate there to fly their UN flags, or Earth flags, and perform pagan ceremonies on every full moon.

 

[gunsmith]

it's not the dogs fault

if it's owners are hippies, any person, LE or just disgruntled citizen, that feels it is neccessary(SIC) to shoot a little harmless dog who's just yapping, is an idiot....if you really hate Bisbee hippies why not just drive around in an SUV with a GW sticker?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrAICp05DZI

 

[dfaugh]

Its called a chain, if your dogs are the type that would attack people put them on one or get a fence.

And, you would know they are gonna attack you how? Running at you? barking?...Awww, just shoot 'em and worry about it later [/sarsasm]

 

[pcosmar]

Yeah, Ace Moonbat Detective on the job. There really aren't words to describe the population of Bisbee. Basically, the few hippees stoners that survived the 60s congregate there to fly their UN flags, or Earth flags, and perform pagan ceremonies on every full moon.

I would see them as American Citizens, exercising their constitutional rights of freedom of religion, speech, and association.
I again wonder what the purpose of sensors is, in a residential neighborhood, They should have sensors on the border.

Shooting a friendly pet, coming to say hello, does nothing for community relations.

 

[Destructo6]

I again wonder what the purpose of sensors is, in a residential neighborhood, They should have sensors on the border.

Sensors are placed different places for different reasons. You may have sensors along the border to detect entry. Then, sensors along various footpaths to determine where the group is probably going. Also, it's common to place sensors at likely areas where aliens/drugs wait to load into vehicles.

These "loadups" are often in residential neighborhoods between 0 and 50 miles from the border. Neighborhoods offer a lot of nooks and crannies in which to hide and it also has plenty of legitimate vehicular traffic for the loaded vehicle to blend in with.

Does that make sense? Placing them only at the border gives a 1 dimensional view.

 

[pcosmar]

Destructo6

Does that make sense?

NO. What good are sensors in a residential community? How can a sensor tell the difference between legal and illegal activity? Kids playing, dogs,birdwatchers, folks out for a stroll would also set off the sensor.
So it tells you....nothing.
How about making an arrest when the sensor goes off at the border.
Oh, thats right , illegals are protected. Citizens aren't.

 

[swingpress]

So, the agent had Mace to use on the guy, but started with a bullet on the dog...

 

[Outlaws]

Sensors are placed different places for different reasons. You may have sensors along the border to detect entry. Then, sensors along various footpaths to determine where the group is probably going. Also, it's common to place sensors at likely areas where aliens/drugs wait to load into vehicles.

These "loadups" are often in residential neighborhoods between 0 and 50 miles from the border. Neighborhoods offer a lot of nooks and crannies in which to hide and it also has plenty of legitimate vehicular traffic for the loaded vehicle to blend in with.

Does that make sense? Placing them only at the border gives a 1 dimensional view.

But a sensor that is within 50 feet of someones house is just stupid. The dog sets off the sensor, then the agent shows up and the dog runs at him from the house. Sounds like the sensor isn't far from his home. Its one thing to have a sensor spread out a bit, but that close to a house is moronic....much like our government.

 

[inkhead]

In a book I have entitled "How to disappear and never be found", it has a set of rules in the front that are constantly touched on the entire book, especially in the part about successfully crossing borders. "Never, ever argue, fight, or refuse to answer any questions asked by a border patrol agent. They can get away with almost anything, and it is easy to disappear." The book has a bunch of examples of dealings that his covert military team had with illegal border crossings, and border patrol. He list them as the only enemy he feared because they were more corrupt, and had the means to drag you to another country and try and keep you out for good.

Good luck in this case, my guess is your going to have a hard time convincing the government that you were in the right, even though I believe you were. I'd be very public with the story, have it on the news, and win over the people, so that people become angry and outraged. Post a picture of your dog to the paper, get people on your side.

 

[Destructo6]

So it tells you....nothing.

Negative. It tells you that something set off the sensor. It's the agent's job to determine what set it off, which is what he was apparently doing.

How about making an arrest when the sensor goes off at the border.

That defies reality. Some of these "at the border" locations are very remote and may take an hour, by truck, to get there. That's not to mention the marked increase in danger as you get nearer the border. These people get very bold when they know that a safe zone is only a few feet away.

What's required is a defense in depth: Sensors/cameras/agents at the border to detect entry and make quick apprehensions when possible. Sensors further back from the line to determine where missed groups are going, laying up, or loading. Finally, checkpoints and highway units to catch those that have loaded.

Arizona BP uses the entire 100 air miles from the border allowed by the Immigration and Naturalization Act.

Sounds like the sensor isn't far from his home. Its one thing to have a sensor spread out a bit, but that close to a house is moronic....much like our government.

Not at all moronic. These sensors are placed where they are for a reason. Field agents see a trail/layup/wash/whatever that is getting heavy use and advises the sensor group. They, in turn, look at it, assess whether a sensor is warranted and would be useful. If so, it is placed. If that sensor has not been tripped for a long time, it will be reassessed and moved or removed. There is a reason why the wash next to this guy's house had a sensor in it.

Also, many of those around here that are most vocal in criticizing border enforcement, profit from the lack thereof. Yep, boys and girls, there are plenty of US citizens that smuggle.

There really aren't words to describe the population of Bisbee. Basically, the few hippees stoners that survived the 60s congregate there to fly their UN flags, or Earth flags, and perform pagan ceremonies on every full moon.

Sounds like Arivaca, too.

 

[Phyphor]

So, the agent had Mace to use on the guy, but started with a bullet on the dog...

Good catch. Does make you wonder about the rest of the story.

 

[swingset]

Something smells horribly here...worse than the apologists in this thread.

 

[stevetexas]

What you all have to understrand is that the Federales can come and go at will in the Border area. (currently over 10 miles from the actual border).

If you happen to own land 10-15 miles from the border, agents can use it anyway they want.

 

[coelacanth]

one less layer of fertilizer please .....

Destructo6 - With all due respect to your last post some valid points were raised re: sensors, their placement and the proper response from those charged with checking on them. To this day our government has not mounted a credible response to the staggering problem that illegal immigrants cause those of us in southern Arizona. ( Yes, Sonoita is very close to the border ) These highly regarded sensors are regularly used to throw off pursuit in one area by diverting critically short staffed BP agents to another. Its a game played by those to whom smuggling is a way of life regardless which side of the border they were born on. Lack of personnel, lack of equipment and lack of commitment from Washington have always been the problem and still are. Given those facts it seems that the local population is necessarily one of the key resources that the BP can draw upon for real time intel and assistance in carrying out their sworn duties. Unless I'm missing something here they just about guaranteed that resource will be seriously diminished if not gone entirely in that sector. You don't have to be perfect to be a BP agent but it's generally a good idea to avoid walking around with your head up your backside. I do not envy job the BP is tasked with but this kind of incident has become all too common around here and people have had enough of it. All of your reasoning and explaining re: BP operations amount to are "plausible deniability" . Which comes in real handy when you can't actually solve the problem.