Boston T. Party's Battle Rifle

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BTP: Didn't see that coming!
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Well, nobody else did either.

But it's the situation now and we have to deal with it. I find myself shooting 30-06 and 7.62X39 much more than I do .308 these days. Kind of weird if you think about the situation ten years ago, but it's reality now. Hopefully another glut of .308 will be found and imported or shooters will make such a stink about not having any .308 ammo for their rifles that someone will get smart and start ammo production on it sometime soon. They'd clean up if they did that. If I had the money, I'd do it myself as I know for a fact it would sell.

Not so much for the caliber, but for the carbine (tarted up a bit). I sold the 5.45 & bought a 5.56. I think 5.45 will soon be difficult to acquire.
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Well, actually I haven't had very good luck with .223 AK carbines.

I bought the BGB in 2003 and it said in there that you hadn't tested a .223 AK yet, but the BGB said that the AK-74 looked pretty good for a carbine in 5.45 secondary to the features that it had and that getting one in .223 might be a good idea (to paraphrase the BGB). I had thought the same thing myself when looking at them at gun shows and gun shops and I couldn't afford an AR-15, so I bought a Romanian AK SAR in .223 and tried it out.

It was the biggest piece of junk ever made, I hated it.

Failures to feed, failures to extract, doubles coupled with a failure to feed. When I did manage to get it to fire, it was actually pretty accurate for an AK, the problem was just the way it would continue to malfunction over and over again. There were a few times that I managed to get through a full mag, but for the most part that wasn't the case.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm a gunsmith (I know how to change grips, springs and some parts and I know how to take them apart enough to know how to clean it, but that's about it), so I took it in three different times and each time it kept malfunctioning no matter what was replaced on it. Eventually I sold it to a friend who was a part time kitchen gunsmith for half price and I got rid of it. He didn't get it working either and he used the parts for some other guns that he had.

I can't blame you for it as I would've bought the gun anyway and besides, you didn't make it and you hadn't even tested it yet yourself as of that printing. But that was the last time I even thought about getting a Romanian AK in .223.

On the other hand, the 5.45 AK-74's that I've seen have seemed to work alot better (a couple friends have them). Maybe I just just got a lemon of a gun and maybe most of the other .223 AK's out there are okay, but I wouldn't buy one with my own money unless in was a Robinson Arms AK or something from a custom shop that had been tested extensively.

You're probably right about 5.45 ammo, but it's available right now for pretty cheap, so if someone were to buy a 5.45 rifle, then they would hopefully be smart enough to grab onto as much ammunition as they could afford right now before it goes up in price or before they quit importing it.
 
WOW!!!

I posted this thread waaaaay back. I see it still has legs.

To All,

Thanks for the civil discussion. While there is some disagreement on the subject, it looks like everyone is "Taking the High Road".

Boston,

Since I read your book I have picked up 2 Garands, an AR-15, 2 Mosins and a Swiss K-31. The results is that I am getting alot more trigger time as I try to figure them out.

Thanks to everyone,

-Boxcab
 
from meef:
Boston, I'm a fan and thoroughly enjoy your books and your writing.

However, unless I'm doing something wrong here - those numbers look more like $50/hour.
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Your math is correct--my late night math wasn't.
Sorry, and thanks for pointing it out, and for the kind praise.
Maybe it just feels like minimum wage... :)

Point remains: I didn't found the FSW for purpose of financial profit,
and even if I netted $50/hr, such would not negate the opportunity
cost of delaying new books.

Regarding my books, I'm a capitalist. It is my living.
Regarding the FSW, it's a form of volunteerism (with the help of many others).
The $25 fee is more symbolic than anything else, and helps to weed
out the time-wasters. Fortunately, most folks understand that.


___________
from Browning:
...so I bought a Romanian AK SAR in .223 and tried it out.

It was the biggest piece of junk ever made, I hated it.

Failures to feed, failures to extract, doubles coupled with a failure to feed.
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What mags did you use? Were they the orange synthetics?
If so, those are 5.45x39 East German mags, and the case taper differs.
They do not reliable feed the .223.
One must find genuine .223 AK mags (all steel).

If you weren't using 5.45x39 mags, I dunno...ammo choice? Steel case?
I've had nothing but AK-esque functioning with Romanian AKs.


______________
from boxcab:
Boston,

Since I read your book I have picked up 2 Garands, an AR-15, 2 Mosins and a Swiss K-31. The results is that I am getting alot more trigger time as I try to figure them out.
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Very nice!
Shooting those great old rifles is lots of fun.
One wonders about their individual history, their battles, etc.

Anyway, I'm always glad to jaw with fellow shooters!

Regards,
Boston

http://www.javelinpress.com (Boston's books)
http://www.freestatewyoming.org (FSW website)
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php (FSW forum open to all)

 
Mr. Party,

Due to an unexpected tax bill (oh, the irony) I do not have the funds for the rifle I was going for so I will get an SKS instead.

Should I go with one that takes AK mags or stick with the fixed 10 rounder?

I like the idea of not paying for and carrying mags but I also like the idea of shooting more than 10 rounds between reloads.

I've been going back and forth on this for a few days now.

Thanks,

Warren
 
I am not Boston, but I had one of those SKS's which takes AK mags.

It Sucked. You haveto 'roll' the mag in, and would often miss (Not just me, but others.)

Stick with the regular SKS. Anyway, those SKS-D's are almost as $ as an AK!
 
About a bunch of untrained civs taking over a army. I would like to refer you to Belarus. WWII A true story about what happens when an invading army tries to take over a country and people (who have not planned for it, or had arms to deal with it), when they resist.

Some of the population resist, hid out, dug wholes/caves in the ground. They took weapons from the Russians as they fled, the Russian dropped them as they ran. From there the resistance, gained people and held off Germans, from ever taking full control, Sure the Germans could go to one area with there planes and tanks and massive troops, but they cann't be every were at once the resistance could. The Germans even sent there MOST elite forces to take out the resistance, they failed. Did the resistance win, no, did they lose, no. They did make the Germans waste alot of troops trying to kill them, troops that never fought against the Allies . Modern armys plainly suck at killing a group of people who don't have land to bomb.

A good quick Documentary, is Ray Mears Extreme Series 3 ep 1. IT covers how the Belarus had to survive and some of there tacts against the Germans and ends with interviews about it.


http://www.belarusguide.com/history1/WWII_partisan_resistance_in_Belarus.htm

1943 was a year of unprecedented Belarusian partisan battle against Nazi. Over the period of 1418 days of German occupation of Belarus 1,255 partisan detachments were formed and lead military actions in Belarus with 374,000 fighters. Additionally approximately 400,000 of locals supported partisan movement. In the cities 70,000 people were involved in the underground resistance. During the three years of war on occupied territory of Belarus (June 1941 - July 1944) Belarusian partisans and underground resistance fighters have killed or incapacitated more than 500,000 of Nazis. 11,128 of German trains following to Russian East Front, as well as 34 armored battle trains were blown up or derailed by Belarusian partisans. 29 railway stations, 948 Military Headquarters, 18,700 cars and trucks, 819 railway and 4,710 auto bridges were destroyed by Belarusian partisans. The partisan movement was so overwhelming that in 1943-44 there were large regions in occupied Belarus, where Soviet rule was established deep inside the German occupation territory. The fully functioning partisan kolkhozes were farming and growing cattle to support partisans.

The pic is the resistance in the dug out hole/cave in a mountain side
Belarusian_partisan_1944.jpg
Boston T. Party has the right idea, get "A" rifle, join others who have "A" rifle and pick off the enemy. Its worked in the past, it will work in the future. Image if instead of farmers and pub owners, and shop owners turned into a resistance. An enemy had to fight not shop owners and farmers but riflemen who can already shoot, already have training, and there own weapons before hand.
 
Let us not forget the story of the freedom fighters on Bougainville.

Blockaded and invaded they still made their own weapons and fought the Aussie supported PNG troops well enough to get to a negotiating table.

I don't know how it has gone since 2002, though.
 
I am not Boston, but I had one of those SKS's which takes AK mags.

It Sucked. You haveto 'roll' the mag in, and would often miss (Not just me, but others.)

Stick with the regular SKS. Anyway, those SKS-D's are almost as $ as an AK!
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I'll vouch for exactly what Nomad said.

I owned both a Norinco Cowboy Companion SKS and an SKS-D.

The SKS-D was super reliable, accurate beyond all expectations and fun to shoot. It also was, however, a royal pain in the keester to change magazines. If you ever envisioned a situation where you thought you might want to make a speedy magazine swap, you'd be SOL way more often than not.

I sold it.

My 10 round Cowboy Companion? All of the good attributes of the SKS-D with none of the magazine fumbling BS. Stripper clips are handy things, you know. It's one of my favorite firearms. Whenever I go shooting, you can bet it's one of the ones that goes along. Always.

:)
 
How much moola are we talking about, I got two M1's for a total of $925. One service $500, one rack grade $400. Saiga are in the $300-400 price range right? OF cousre CMP is out of M1s but they are getting more in, also the forums have good deals once in awile.

From what i have seen on the Forums, most people love there 308 Saiga. Other then the fact that there was no hi-cap mags made for it, 8rd max same as a M1. I do believe that some one is making hi-cap now?. Of course since we live in CA, that wont bother you.

The reason i say M1s are the best for CA is for the same reason 45s went in favor when the nation wide hi-cap ban was in effect. If you can only have 10 rds what do you want 9mm or 45. Same with .223 vs 308 vs 30-06. If your rifle can only have a max of 10 rounds, makes more sense to carry the most effect rd. I dont think Saigas are a bad choice per say, i just love M1s.

Ps did you think i meant a M1A?
 
For the AK-74 Romanian SAR in .223 I used some of the orange/red mags, I tried some of the steel SAR mags and then I tried some of those black waffle Bulgarian mags from K-Var. As far as the ammo, I tried everything that I had in .223, I tried Wolf, SS109, Winchester, Coyote Duster, Remington, Black Hills, Federal, Horandy and a couple others in various grain weights from 40 grain all the way up to 72 grain (and especially everything in between), none of them worked in any combo thereof. It wasn't the mags, it was the gun. The guy at the gunstore where I bought it from said that they had a shipment of the Romanian SAR's that "were less than reliable", but they wouldn't take it back in trade for an AK that actually worked. I no longer shop at that gun shop.

It was just a lemon of a gun and I just happened to get stuck with it. It was $400 with tax and everything out the door and I got about half of that back and then it was the basis for a good trade later on with my buddy, so it worked out. But at the time I cussed the lineage of that gun from Kalashnikov's great, great, great grandfather all the way back up to his grandson in modern times.

I'm sure that many of the other .223 AK's are great, but that experience soured me on them for good. If it's an AK, it'll be in 5.45, 7.62X39 or nothing at all for me. The odds are that I would probably get a good one since I've already had a bad experience, but I'm a little more into hunting right now anyway so buying an AK in any caliber isn't in my immediate future.

Every other recommendation in the BGB worked out like a charm for me though and the number of those far outweighed that one bad experience. It was kind of a backdoor recommendation anyway as you stated clearly that you thought that carbines weren't that great to begin with, that the controls weren't that ergonomic on the AK and that you hadn't tested it yet.

Really it's not that big of a deal. The subject just happened to come up on here about .223 AK's immediately, you're here and so I figured that I'd give you some feedback about that particular carbine if you hadn't had any yet by anyone else. Like I said though, eveything else in the book (rifles, pistols, ammo, optics etc) worked out great and thanks for some good reads. I loved Molon Labe and the Y2K book along with the BGB, keep up the good work.
 
Well, looking over all of the posts, it is clear that many think that the 5.56 is capable out to 500 yards, we know that the 308 is. Also, there are many here that think that the average American shooter can not be effective out to that range, regardless of rifle.

I am here to say that YOU CAN SHOOT OUT TO 500 YARDS, ACCURATELY!!!

You can do it with a 308 or 5.56, I have done it and seen it done, very often. I have seen many folks aquire such skills in a relatively short period of time.
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Straw man argument. I've never said American (or any other nation's) shooters cannot shoot out at 500 meters and beyond at paper targets, which is what you are talking about. What I've said, and provided simple, easy to understand evidence to support, is that leisurely shooting paper targets that are not trying to hide and evade, or shoot you in return, and otherwise prevent you from killing them has very little to do with real combat conditions. I hate to intrude on the fantasy and such, but the real world data just does not support 500 meter iron sight using, stone faced killers existing much of anywhere.
 
from Browning:
The guy at the gunstore where I bought it from said that they had a shipment of the Romanian SAR's that "were less than reliable"
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Well, that sucks. Sorry about your experience.
Thanks for clearing up whether it was a mag issue.

Every other recommendation in the BGB worked out like a charm for me though and the number of those far outweighed that one bad experience.
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Good to hear, thanks!


____________
SKS w/AK mags: They cost as much as an AK now, but I do prefer
their bolt handle and safety controls. Mag seating is fussy.
I had one years ago. Was a good, reliable carbine, though finding
accurate ammo at surplus prices is about impossible. 4MOA would be
about tops, and 6MOA is to be expected.

SKS w/10rd stripper clips: A good cabin gun or loaner, though I wouldn't
choose one for primary use. I've found stripper clip loading to be tedious.
So have my students (you should hear the swearing).

Truly, I'd go the AR15 route over any AK/SKS 7.62x39 choice.

Too cheap is expensive, and the AR15 is worth saving up another $400 for.


____________
Saiga .308s: Mine's been reliable, and more accurate than my previous VEPR.
2.5MOA with that (once) common Portuguese FMJ.
I topped it with the Tapco copy of the 4x Hensoldt, in Valdada mount.
IIRC, I intstalled a Red Star 2-stage trigger (they're great).
So far, so good. Not a bad package at all.
I've heard that M1A mags can be modified to fit--no personal exp. with that.

Boston

http://www.javelinpress.com (Boston's books)
http://www.freestatewyoming.org (FSW website)
http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/fswforum/index.php (FSW forum open to all)

 
I've managed to become proficient at inserting magazines in my Norinco SKS M thanks to assiduous practice and proper technique.
 
Well folks, I understand that some clarification on some points are in order.

As far as I know, in the lower 48 states in America (and perhaps in Alaska and Hawaii), it against many, many laws to shoot people, moving or other wise.

Until such oppressive laws are repealed by more enlightened politicians, we are limited in what we can shoot. While many viable options are available to many, PAPER seems to be one on the best alternatives. While paper may not be the best training tool, it is a great way to learn the basics, and will even allow folks to learn how to shoot out to and including 500 yards, with reports of even further.

We currently have ads in all the major newspapers, looking for people to run about at 300 to 500 yards, so that we may hone our skills at those ranges, but to this date, no one has responded. I suspect that this too is just another job that no American is willing to do.

Sorry if anyone on this thread understood me to be advocating shooting people at those ranges, at this time. Until conditions change, we must make due with PAPER and gain what skills we can under these oppressive times. While not ideal, we can surely improve on our abilities to put lead on a "target" out to 500 yards, by "practicing" on paper or other media.

If you do not fine these conditions too oppressive, and would like to improve your skills out to 500 yards, in waiting for that fateful day when we are no longer hampered by silly laws, PM me for a plan on how to do that. It is proven to be effective, educational and fun.
 
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