I Need A Battle Rifle

Status
Not open for further replies.
V

VonFireball

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
43
I only own bolt actions.

Little or no experience with battle rifles.

The FFL in-law recommends an fn fal or Hk G3 style rifle, so that is what I'm looking at. No sks, ak-47 style, AR, etc.......

I always listen to what he recommends, however, he has been out of the FFL bit for some time and isn't sure who has kits or what's what now.

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions.

Yeah, I know the DS arms are nice, but they are also 1000 bucks. A bit tough to come by in these days of a dollar worth less than canadian.

I just want some links or pointers towards affordable fn fal kits, cetme's, etc....

Hoping to spend not much past about 700 or so, give or take a hundred. Yes, I could scrape up (with great difficulty) the 1000 bucks for the DSA stuff but it would financially cripple me for some time. Gotta afford the ammo and cleaning supplies......:D

I can get gunsmithing help for free so I'm not afraid of some of the supposed "gunsmith specials" in regards to cheaper battle rifle kits/producers.

I know another guy has a battle rifle thread going, but I felt my needs were a bit different than his. I ain't making a collection to collect, but to use heavily.

Anyway, all your suggestions are appreciated.
 
Cause the I gotta live with the in law after I show it to him.

I don't feel like being the brunt of hundreds of cruel jokes.:D

Plus, I always take his advice.
 
Hmmm.... I can't speak of the others, but FAL kits are becoming scarce - prices on gunjo... er... gunbroker... for Imbel kits are around the $300 mark, plus an upper receiver anywhere from $300-$500. Add in some money for 922r-compliance parts and perhaps refinishing and you're approaching $1,000 at a high rate of knots.

Then get the appropriate tools and you're over $1k already. Simpler to buy a second-hand FAL, and there are some good buys to be had out there if you educate yourself first. FALFiles.com is full of guys doing the "Hey, I found this FAL in a local gunstore for $450, is it a good deal....?" ;)
 
Why do you "need" one? Just wondering. I'm all for you getting one, just wondering what need has got to do with it, since it doesn't for me. If an AK will get you made fun of, then an FAL will too; maybe only half as much, but it will in all likelihood - at least by someone. The question is, either you care what they think. Or you don't. So don't exclude AKs and ARs *for that reason*. For other reasons perhaps, but not that reason. In fact, I fail to understand why an FAL or G3 is OK, as foreign designs, but an ARs is not, as a fine American design?? :confused: I would definitely re-vamp the *question* before trying to come up with an answer in this case.

To expand on that:

I always listen to what he recommends
Click to expand...
How come, if he doesn't really know his guns any more? If he thinks an AR sucks, then he doesn't know his guns, in my opinion. Ditto for many of the top notch AKs out there now. So why are you being his whippin boy and not getting what you want, and then telling HIM why it's better than his recommendation? Sorry, had to ask.

You can get a DS Arms FAL for $1k? Hmm, seems like the one I wanted was more like $1,700 or more.

But, without changing the question, you might look at the PTR-91 rifle, built by JLD. It's a G3 style and is a good build, and is around $700-$800 IIRC for a plain jane version.
 
can one get a magpul (now bushmaster) MASADA yet? are they for sale to the public yet??? if so, where can i find one, and how much are they???

and to the O.P...

i have a CETME sporter in .308, and its a wonderful rifle. its kinda like the HK G-3, only i believe that it came about first... the G-3 is based on the CETME, just buit using better materials and tolerances. anyways, there very reliable, and accurate rifles. though, they seem to like the 7.62x51 nato rounds a lot better than the commercial .308.

dont get me wrong, i think that the G-3 is a much better weapon, but at a much bigger price.
 
If a few hundred dollars is your budget for ammo, and cleaning supplies, you aren't going to be buying much ammo. DSA makes quality stuff. 1K for a quality gun that will last the rest of your life is not much money. I could easily shoot more than $1000 worth of ammo a year. Guns are cheap. Ammo is expensive.
 
I think you are better off spending the money on an AR10, M1A, or DSA if you must have a large caliber rifle. If buying the rifle will cripple you, consider how much the ammo to feed a hungry semi auto is going to cost. This is the main reason I am not shooting .308, or considering buying any more.
 
Pardon me for saying this but to hell with the in law.

The SKS, AK, and AR are fine rifles and cost a lot less then a Fal or a G3/Cetme.

I get picked on by my dad every time I buy a old military bolt gun but I don't let him get me down. In fact it usually results in me buying more of in his words " those crappy, heavy, inaccurate, and ugly pieces of junk" just to tick him and make him ponder were he went wrong in raising me.
 
VonFireball

The FFL in-law recommends an fn fal or Hk G3 style rifle, so that is what I'm looking at. No sks, ak-47 style, AR, etc.......
Cause the I gotta live with the in-law after I show it to him.

I always listen to what he recommends, however, he has been out of the FFL bit for some time and isn't sure who has kits or what's what now.

I don't feel like being the brunt of hundreds of cruel jokes. Plus, I always take his advice.

I'm looking for recommendations/suggestions.
Click to expand...


Ask your FFL in-law how feels about a Norinco or Poly Tech M14.
Forged receiver, chrome lined barrel, 2-stage trigger for about $800.00

Here is a picture of my pair of Polys just in case he isn't familiar.
I got my gunsmithing help from Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc.

LITE-SDM.jpg




vzenmn Pardon me for saying this but to hell with the in law.

The SKS, AK, and AR are fine rifles and cost a lot less then a Fal or a G3/Cetme
Click to expand...
Agreed. I like the AK :evil:
 
i have a CETME sporter in .308, and its a wonderful rifle. its kinda like the HK G-3, only i believe that it came about first... the G-3 is based on the CETME, just buit using better materials and tolerances. anyways, there very reliable, and accurate rifles. though, they seem to like the 7.62x51 nato rounds a lot better than the commercial .308.
Click to expand...


Thanks for actually being supportive and informative.

Some of the other guys are questioning why I would "need" a fn fal or similar rifle. I thought I was beyond explaining that kind of stuff when I came here....jeesh.

Did your Cetme require any gunsmithing to bring it to top notch operating condition?

How come, if he doesn't really know his guns any more? If he thinks an AR sucks, then he doesn't know his guns, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't think 40 years of gunsmithing is "not knowing" his guns. It's a knowledge about availability issue. I said he is no longer an FFL these days.

He says if you think AR's are good, then you don't know guns "in his opinion". Not a very nice thing to say is it?

Thought this was the high road, maybe I was wrong.:(
 
<Announcer voice over PA system>

Oft-asked question in aisle 12.

There are a bazillion threads on this exact topic. Here's just one http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=356700&highlight=fal

M1A
Pro
* reliable design
* very comfortable (for most) stock
* can be quite accurate
* great sights
* safety is convenient location in trigger guard
Con
* scope mounting is awkward over the receiver
* field stripping has lots of part/not straightforward
* can't be cleaned from chamber side with a rod
* expensive mags

FAL
Pro
* reliable design
* extremely good ergonomics
* cheap mags
* extraordinarily easy to break down, field strip, clean
* adjustable gas system
Con
* Sights are adequate but better A2 style sights exist
* Triggers not known to be great but they can be improved

HK91/G3/PTR91
Pro
* reliable design
* cheap mags
* somewhat easy to break down, field strip, clean
Con
* Sights are adequate
* No bolt hold open
* Abysmal ergonomics - safety selector is near impossible to reach, cocking handle is in terrible place, mag release is hard to reach
* Triggers are absolutely horrible but they can be improved
 
Quote H2O MAN:
Ask your FFL in-law how feels about a Norinco or Poly Tech M14.
Forged receiver, chrome lined barrel, 2-stage trigger for about $800.00

VonFireball

He recommends M-14's.
Click to expand...

What a coincidence... so do I :cool:
 
I disagree with those who say not to buy the FAL.
Personally, I think if you want one you should get it now.
The prices of FAL's are going up. I bought an Ohio Rapid Fire Imbel build for $550 in around 2003 and sold it when I got my second FAL for more than the new price.
If you're interested in a FAL carbine, I have an Enterprise STG 58C that I just bought. I looked for one that was a little cheaper too because I wanted a shooter, not a safe queen.
The original owner lied to me and claimed it was in perfect working order - it wasn't. I had to have the magazine catch customized to get magazines to lock in properly.
I did get it fixed (I think) but I haven't had a chance to test fire it yet to make sure it will feed properly when fired with live ammo (only with hand cycling dummy rounds).
After I try it (I never want to pass headaches on to the next guy) I'm planning to sell it to free up some money.
Not because of anything with the gun because this fix should make it a perfectly reliable shooter, but because I'm going to need the money next semester to continue my education.
Anyhow, I'll be looking to get about $612 plus shipping out of it when I do.
$600 for the rifle, $12 for gunsmithing, and whatever it takes to get it to your FFL.
PM me if you think you'll be interested and I'll fill you in.

I do hear you on the DSA though.
They're great rifles and I would have bought a second DSA this time around if I could have spent that kind of money but that wasn't a possibility for me on this one either, especially when you consider the price of ammo for a FAL. Still, their STG-58's are very nice rifles.
If you can afford one and 10 magazines to put away with it, I'd suggest you get it.

I have heard that many century guns have spotty QC so I'd be hesitant to buy one of them unless you can test fire it first. I probably would buy from Enterprise though because they offered to work on my rifle for free if I sent it back to them. I decided that just getting the part fixed was cheaper than shipping, but I still give them credit for the willingness to service a gun that I bought used. You don't see companies stand behind their products like that every day.
IIRC, you'd be looking at about $800 or so for a new Enterprise.

I also agree on the FAL in general. It's my favorite semi-auto rifle. They are a little more complex than an AK in my experience. Still, it's worth it for me. I've always shot them way better than any AK and there is just something fun about being able to shoot at stuff out about as far away as you can see it with the irons and still standing a reasonable chance of making a hit.
I don't blame you for wanting one over anything else - everyone should have a FAL.

Even if you have to reload or buy .308 sporting ammo one box at a time to build up a small supply of ammo, you should still be able to do that for a while.
Personally, I'm worried that before too long FAL's, AK's, AR's, G-3's and the others will become unavailable or much more restricted.

BTW - don't worry about justifying your opinions to anyone else. If you've handled or shot a FAL and made a somewhat rational decision based on what you want from the rifle, that's good enough.
No one can tell you want gun is right for you. All rifles have their drawbacks and they're all pretty well known and debated on the net.
I have nothing against the "others" and even like the AR platform and the SKS a lot, but for me the FAL is the one I'd want if I could only keep one rifle.
 
Here is a picture of my pair of Polys just in case he isn't familiar.
I got my gunsmithing help from Ron Smith at Smith Enterprise, Inc.
Click to expand...

I am interested to know more about these. The price seems within reach.

What kind of gunsmithing work was required to get them how you wanted?
 
Sorry, but you need to get what your budget allows you to have. Plus once you have a .308 caliber rifle, you'll need ammunition and that's not cheap. Is the only reasong you do not want an AK-style rifle (Saiga or Vepr) is because your FFL in law will not transfer one for you?
 
I don't like you.
Click to expand...

Whether you like him or not doesn't matter. If a relative of sorts is capable of acquiring for you something but not exactly what you want, out of illogical thought, then you should find another person that can obtain what you want.
 
I think the best way to get into battle rifles is a M1 Garand through the CMP. The M1 Carbines are nice too if you're not looking for 200+ yard accuracy and want a lighter rifle.

How are you expecting to use this battle rifle?
 
BTW - are those poly-tech M1A's available new in the US anymore? Last one I saw was $600 used at a gunshow.
But that was a gunshow...

Still, I think there is a Canadian guy on here who owns a couple and likes them. But I also think they are more difficult or totally impossible to import here.

One other rifle that you may want to check out would be the Saiga .308's. They are an AK style action but I've never read anything bad about them and they are supposedly a lot more accurate in the .308 or 5.56 chambering.
Makes sense - a lot of the AK's accuracy issues come from bargain basement 7.62x39mm ammo.

A saiga .308 would still probably leave enough money over for a couple battlepacks of Lithiuanian surplus and a couple mags too (although spare mags for them are pretty costly).

A CMP Garand might be a good option too but I've never really researched them that much. But they're known to be excellent values and you can still get surplus ammo for them fairly cheap (not sure if it's corrosive or not though). There isn't anything wrong with the 30'06 round either.
But I think you do have to stay around the 150 grain bullet weight in the '06 or you risk damage (I think).

Just slinging out some options.
 
Sorry, but you need to get what your budget allows you to have. Plus once you have a .308 caliber rifle, you'll need ammunition and that's not cheap. Is the only reasong you do not want an AK-style rifle (Saiga or Vepr) is because your FFL in law will not transfer one for you?
Click to expand...

I CAN afford under a thousand bucks. It is in my budget.

No, it ain't the only reason.

I've shot the AK's plenty, same with the SKS. They work.

My FFL in law is no longer FFL.

He is an excellent gunsmith that knows more about rifles than a great majority. He recommended the FN FAL. I usually go with his recommendations and have been satisfied with them.

My problem was that since he is no longer FFL he doesn't know who has decent kits/complete guns for reasonable. I was only looking for advice as to who has stuff worth looking at. You didn't need to crucify me cause I didn't want an AR, SKS, or AK.

I want the FN or G3.

He has an FN 49 laying around, maybe I'll just take that. Trouble is, I'd get it for a good deal and he'd be out money that he could make selling it to someone who can pay, plus, I wanted more than 10 round magazines. But whatever.

Just looking for some recommendations on .308 caliber steel receiver guns with the high capacity magazines.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Boston T. Party's Battle Rifle
2 3 4 5
Replies
118
Views
8K
Bartholomew Roberts
B
DMK
  • Locked
  • Poll
What kind of accuracy do you expect from a battle rifle
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Beetle Bailey
B
P
  • Locked
question about so called "battle rifles"
2 3
Replies
59
Views
2K
jpwilly
J
B
  • Locked
Okay, folks... I'm thinking about getting a battle rifle.
2
Replies
32
Views
2K
MrPink
M
Zundfolge
  • Locked
So why NOT an AR-10?
Replies
17
Views
2K
EBRDude
E
Back
Top