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Bought an old 3 screw 41 mag.....

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by osteodoc08, Mar 19, 2013.

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  1. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    But it's been converted. Major bummer.

    My father goes into a local gun shop and they have a 3 screw blackhawk. He says its in excellent shape and unconverted. I've got to run down past his house to pick up my kids anyhow. I call the shop and put it on hold. I get down there and find its been converted and with the gate swung open, it wouldn't always disconnect the cylinder stop. I use these as bargaining chips and get it for 3 bills.

    I'm guessing the gate spring is weak and causing an intermittent issue with the deactivation of the cylinder stop. Anything else to look for?

    Even though it has been converted, it is still a 3 screw and I'm thinking about sending it off for a refinish. How well does ruger do on their refinishes? Do they do semi custom work like adding steel grip frame and ejector shroud?

    Anyone else I should look at working on this for a reasonable sum? I love to send it to turnbull, but my pockets aren't quite that deep.
     
  2. murf

    murf Member

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    the loading gate on the old model isn't connected to the bolt. to load your converted old model, you will need to bring the hammer back to the first notch to rotate the cylinder.

    ruger doesn't do custom work. as a matter of fact, they will remove all custom items from your gun and replace with stock. so, if you send it to them, take off all your after-market items (base pins, grips, etc.) before you send it in.

    murf
     
  3. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    What if the cylinder doesn't spin with the hammer at "half cock"?

    I can see the cylinder stop go down but only stays down maybe 35-40% of the time to allow me to turn the cylinder.

    The gate is fairly easy to flip open. Much easier than my several other BHs.
     
  4. rchery59

    rchery59 Member

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    Ruger is probably your best bet for a blueing job. They are very reasonable. Like the other poster mentioned they won't do any custom work though. If you need the original parts, slip over to the Ruger forum and post in the classifieds for un-conversion parts, they are available and fairly reasonable. I bought a converted single six a while back and converted it back.
    On a side note I had a 41 mag OM I sold and have regretted it ever since. It's the only handgun I ever sold, Hopefully the last.
     
  5. murf

    murf Member

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    bring the hammer back to the first click and no further. if you go past, the bolt will pop back up. if that happens, pull the hammer back to full cock, lower the hammer back down to the frame and start again.

    if you are still having problems, get back to us for further discussion.

    murf
     
  6. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    Ok. Gate open. Hammer back to first click, I can only rotate the cylinder until the cylinder stop catches on the next catch. Gate closed same thing.

    If I slowly pull the hammer back, I can see the cylinder stop drop away and can spin the cylinder freely, but if I pull the hammer back to the first notch, the cylinder stop will pop up and catch on the cylinder. Yes, it is on the first click of the hammer.

    I have quite a few NMBH and have never encountered this before.
     
  7. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    First click is the safety notch.....you've gotta come back one more to free the cylinder.....if you overshoot that notch you can inadvertently trip the locking bolt again.....

    Even tho that gun's been converted to the transfer bar safety it can be easily restored to it's original condition. You will need the hammer/trigger/locking bolt tho to do so. The bolt may or may not work with the old style hammer. The safety conversion trigger can be modified to function as the original did. You still need the hammer and I recall seeing some rather pricey newly made version.........you might google it if interested.

    And yeah, there are gonna be six dozen folks that say if you re convert the thing that you're gonna bring the wrath of the trial lawyers association down on your person....maybe, maybe not.....

    I re claimed my refinished .41 3 screw when I got it back from Ruger.......the conversion action stunk! They even screwed up the re blue job and actually polished the screw heads flat with the frame.......looked like something you'd buy as a kid's toy......had the devils own time getting them to replace those screws.

    Anywhichaway, to my mind the old action........ala Sam Colt's (nearly) mechanism has worked well for way over a hundred years and remember, dummies will injure themselves with air bag too.....!


    Like the man said, that gate's got NOTHING to do with cylinder activation on an original or a conversion piece.........all it does is let you load and unload & remove the cylinder.
     
  8. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    I'm only feeling 2 notches/clicks whatever you wanna call it. Half cock and full cock. That's it. Sometimes it will spin freely at half cock, other times (most times) it will have the cylinder stop pop up and catch the cylinder.
     
  9. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    In it's original version the design had three notches........I did a recheck on the parts from the conversions I had done and determined that the hammer on it has only two positions........the loading notch (half cock) and full. Safety notch is missing on the conversion parts..........been a long time since I fooled with the things, my apology.

    If you OVERDRAW the hammer for position 2 you will allow the bolt to re-engage......it may be that the bolt in yours is slightly off & needs some tinkering. It may also be that the hammer stud that engages the bolt hand is not quite fitted correctly. Note that the conversion bolts are slightly different than the original equipment models....both tho, work essentially the same.

    The only way to get parts to my knowledge is from Ruger and they will require you to return the gun.

    I have most of the parts left from the two three screw models I re-converted & I'll help you out if I can. Lemme know.
     
  10. murf

    murf Member

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    would send it back to ruger to get fixed. your problem is not right. there should be three clicks when you cock the hammer.

    when you get it back, talk to dogrunner about those old model parts.

    fwiw,

    murf
     
  11. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    Don't have any old model parts Murf.........the parts I offered him are the conversion parts that Ruger installed....they sent my old stuff back and I re installed them.

    OM parts are hard to come by, been lookin' for a recessed/fluted .44 flat top cylinder for a couple of decades w/ no luck. For what it's worth to you OM Ruger types tho, the triggers from the conversion are adaptable to the OM by simply removing the transfer bar extension....I believe that the bolt could also be used.

    Reason I offered the parts is that I KNOW just how difficult it can be to try to get one up and running with Ruger's no parts selling policy.

    My bet tho, is that he is simply not familiar with the OM mechanism & he's just pulling that hammer back to the point it's tripping the bolt again....still, if the parts will get him out of a jam he can have 'em for postage.
     
  12. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    I appreciate the offer guys. I've been around BHs for 20+ years just not a converted 3 screw. I really don't feel I'm over doing the hammer. I guess I'm gonna throw in the towel and send it in. :(

    Ill keep y'all updated
     
  13. murf

    murf Member

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    it sounds like the hammer plunger is not working correctly. it may be stuck up inside the hammer a bit and releasing the bolt too soon. if so, it needs to go back to ruger for a fix, unless you want to take it apart and check it out.

    the rear of the bolt could also be off.

    if the plunger is ok, i would then take up dogrunners offer and see if his conversion parts will fix your problem (make sure to check cylinder timing as the conversion includes the hammer and the pawl).

    murf
     
  14. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    Hey Murf, the conversions I've seen don't have a hammer plunger........just a cam similar to Colt's design plus a long tail on the bolt rear to activate it........anyway I'm sending him the conversion stuff I've got....

    Y'know, on reflection, I really don't know just why Ruger did a complete re-design. The conversion would've been simpler and it would have HAD to be cheaper for them..........same results, transfer bar and slight mods to the hammer, bolt,trigger and cylinder pin.............gotta keep up the high cost of engineering I guess.
     
  15. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    Thanks again dog runner. Ill keep everyone posted on how things go.
     
  16. murf

    murf Member

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    dogrunner,

    had to check my parts. yup, must have had new model on the brain.

    the conversion doesn't last. i had my om 357magnum converted. trigger pull doubled to 4 pounds. dry-fired the gun to smooth it out and try to get the pull back down. at about pull number 300, the transfer bar broke at the pivot and fell out of the gun. i put the old parts back in. got my 2.5 pound trigger pull back!

    the new model transfer bar system is bullet proof. the price you pay is the 4 to 5 pound trigger pull and the extra pita trying to load it.

    murf
     
  17. dogrunner

    dogrunner Member

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    That's interesting Murf.........dunno, never used the conversion in mine. Am kinda surprised to hear that tho, I owned a new model in .357 years ago, fooled with it some because of that trigger pull and as I recall I really didn't see a heck of a lotta difference in material or construction in it or the conversions......anyway, I got the stuff I had in the mail to OD today & he ought to get it around the first of the week.

    Truly, I think the old models were good to go as they were and the new stuff is just lawyer driven mods, that original design worked well for way over a hundred years and anyone using it HAD to know you didn't carry one under the hammer!......

    I really wish I knew of some source for the old model design parts that wasn't so doggone high.........as I recall, the price I saw on an old model (newly made) hammer was about 150!!....

    Anyway you look at it tho, I personally think OD got a deal for three bills!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  18. osteodoc08

    osteodoc08 Member

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    Update

    Finally got a chance to put the new/old parts in from dogrunner (thanks again!). Everything is as should be. Timing was GTG and it shot beautifully. Wish I could do something about the trigger pull, but hey, I ain't complaining.

    I "accidentally" left it at my olds man house to play with. Of course I slipped his 357 mag Marlin in my gun case before I left..... Good times.
     
  19. Drail

    Drail Member

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    Do something about the trigger pull is right. I have had several Ruger Bhawks in .41 and they give you what you need to make a fine revolver but but they cut the hammer notch really deep and when you drag that sear out of that notch it is pretty "creepy". .41 Bhawks and Bisleys are about the best handguns I have ever shot once you have the trigger cleaned up with no creep. Without the transfer bar set up you can get a very quick clean release, better than an old handfitted S&W. With the transfer bar they set them up to not release until the transfer bar rises fully. And a lot of those transfer bars run short. (I'm thinking of trying to "stretch" one) Keep working on it though, that will become your favorite shooter eventually. I would love an old one. I would replace all springs first.
     
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