Will be in the Boundary Waters in June for a week (my first trip there) and plan to have a handgun. I have a carry permit recognized by Minnesota and I know to stay out of Canada with a handgun. Any other gun-related suggestions I might want to be aware of, from those with experience there?
Boundary Waters Canoe Area
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another pake
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I love the BWCAW! I've been going there many times a year since 1965; summer and winter. Your decision to carry there is yours of course but I'm curious as to why?
In any case, the BW in June is great, but make sure that you and your sidearm are prepared to get wet..... From the rain above or an unintended dunk.
Enjoy it. Where are you going in. Going to...
In any case, the BW in June is great, but make sure that you and your sidearm are prepared to get wet..... From the rain above or an unintended dunk.
Enjoy it. Where are you going in. Going to...
Zaydok Allen
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Stainless steel.
I was there years ago and also crossed into Canada. Make sure you have good maps and don't cross into Canada with a gun; very strict gun laws.
If you plan on fishing and sleeping in a tent, do not leave fish parts or other food out in the open. We were awakened by black bear that sniffed out our food; luckily, we were not attacked.
If you plan on fishing and sleeping in a tent, do not leave fish parts or other food out in the open. We were awakened by black bear that sniffed out our food; luckily, we were not attacked.
g.willikers
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A really big knife might be more useful.
Along with bear and bug spray.
And your canoe, of course.
Check often to be sure it's still on the roof until you get there.
Along with bear and bug spray.
And your canoe, of course.
Check often to be sure it's still on the roof until you get there.
anothernewb
Member
What's your route? where you go has a major influence on what you'll see - and some influence on what you should bring along.
I've Been going to the BWCA for well, awhile - lol. I won't discourage you from carrying. But I can say as yet I've never needed one. That being said - there are bear up there. I've seen many. But like anything else - thinking for a few moments takes care of 99% of things.
The thing I've most worried about is turning an ankle or slipping while portaging. have good boots that you are comfortable in. and take your time. freaking rocks are slippery and don't have much forgiveness if you land on them.
I've Been going to the BWCA for well, awhile - lol. I won't discourage you from carrying. But I can say as yet I've never needed one. That being said - there are bear up there. I've seen many. But like anything else - thinking for a few moments takes care of 99% of things.
The thing I've most worried about is turning an ankle or slipping while portaging. have good boots that you are comfortable in. and take your time. freaking rocks are slippery and don't have much forgiveness if you land on them.
another pake
Member
Very true anothernewb. Like I said, the BW is a remarkable place, but from my experience it takes a few trips for anyone to figure out for themselves just what TO bring as well as what NOT TO bring, and it's mostly about learning how to pack and carry whatever you do decide to bring. A base camp trip on an entry point lake requires less fanaticism than a trip to the interior requiring many portages. You soon learn that everything that you haul in the canoe must be portaged on your back to the next water and so on.
Most folks learn that the fewer hand carried items the better, carrying everything possible in packs. Fewer small packages mean fewer items forgotten at a portage landing, and landings can become great places to "find" gear left by others. Learning to pack is an art form IMO, as things need to be accessible, easily portable, waterproof. Remember you're carrying the canoe, paddles, life jackets, maybe fishing equipment, food packs, clothing, equipment, water bottles, cameras, all manner of stuff.
After my third or forth trip I learned how to pack so that I could Single Portage. That is one trip across a portage and you're off. Double ports require three trips. Think about it. I'm 67 now but still do solo wilderness canoe trips every year. As I've aged I'm back to double ports, so on landing I shoulder my gear/clothes pack (65#s) and shoulder my Kevlar canoe with paddle wedged under the seat (42#s) and I'm off for the first trip across the port. I'll still be wearing the PFD so that leaves my hands free then I can more easily balance while scrambling over the ports and some of them require scrambling. They range from a few rods (a rod is 16.5 feet) to hundreds of rods, maybe a mile or more. Most on well travelled routes are in the 80 - 100 rod range, but they can be hellish. Slippery boulders, lots of steep inclines up and down, tree blow downs, mud and then there are the skeeters. Oh, and in June there are the black flies... and the no-seeums. Drop your gear off at the trail head at the other end so as not to impede other travelers who may also be on the port and it's back to the landing (trip 2) for the food pack, which is usually the heavy one and my day pack which holds small stuff that I think I'll need while traveling. I wear the day pack on my chest. The water bottle, rain gear, wind breaker, camera, map, things like that are in the day pack. And I hand carry my fishing stuff. Then it's back across the port for the third time. So a one mile port becomes three, etc
Enjoy!
But like I said, each traveler must learn these things and you decide what has value and what doesn't. A hand gun just hasn't proven to be much good against no-seeums.
YMMV.
Most folks learn that the fewer hand carried items the better, carrying everything possible in packs. Fewer small packages mean fewer items forgotten at a portage landing, and landings can become great places to "find" gear left by others. Learning to pack is an art form IMO, as things need to be accessible, easily portable, waterproof. Remember you're carrying the canoe, paddles, life jackets, maybe fishing equipment, food packs, clothing, equipment, water bottles, cameras, all manner of stuff.
After my third or forth trip I learned how to pack so that I could Single Portage. That is one trip across a portage and you're off. Double ports require three trips. Think about it. I'm 67 now but still do solo wilderness canoe trips every year. As I've aged I'm back to double ports, so on landing I shoulder my gear/clothes pack (65#s) and shoulder my Kevlar canoe with paddle wedged under the seat (42#s) and I'm off for the first trip across the port. I'll still be wearing the PFD so that leaves my hands free then I can more easily balance while scrambling over the ports and some of them require scrambling. They range from a few rods (a rod is 16.5 feet) to hundreds of rods, maybe a mile or more. Most on well travelled routes are in the 80 - 100 rod range, but they can be hellish. Slippery boulders, lots of steep inclines up and down, tree blow downs, mud and then there are the skeeters. Oh, and in June there are the black flies... and the no-seeums. Drop your gear off at the trail head at the other end so as not to impede other travelers who may also be on the port and it's back to the landing (trip 2) for the food pack, which is usually the heavy one and my day pack which holds small stuff that I think I'll need while traveling. I wear the day pack on my chest. The water bottle, rain gear, wind breaker, camera, map, things like that are in the day pack. And I hand carry my fishing stuff. Then it's back across the port for the third time. So a one mile port becomes three, etc
Enjoy!
But like I said, each traveler must learn these things and you decide what has value and what doesn't. A hand gun just hasn't proven to be much good against no-seeums.
YMMV.
anothernewb
Member
Not to hijack the thread -
pake.
dead on. learning what to pack, and how to pack is important. Veterans are instantly visible when you see someone portage. I tried the military MOLLE packs once but I tended towards placing lots of small add ons which hampered rather than helped. dragging across a portage like an ornamented camo christmas tree will discover hundreds of branches and snags you never knew existed. Went back to the old duluth pack and a dry/ditty bags. routine. Just plain easier. Pack the stuff you access often - at the top. I have never done solo trips due to that very aspect. even with a light canoe, 60#+ on my back and 40+ on my shoulders -walking over some of those rocks is not my first choice.
Doesn't take long to add up 60# either. usually 4 of us go. the food/cook pack alone is usually 60-100#. but then again, we always plan for never catching fish - and we eat pretty obnoxiously well too. We could get away with more of the pouch food and so forth - but we're kinda snobs in that respect. Each year one of us brings along something "special" for one day of the trip.
back to topic - if you carry, carry light, and polymer/nickel/parkerized and something you won't mind scratching or banging. you'll lose track of all kinds of things you'll bump against during the trip, and if you hip or shoulder carry - you're going to smack it on the canoe or a rock sooner or later. It's also going to get wet. it will rain, or if the weather is super nice and sunny all week - you will dump either launching or disembarking or take an unexpected splash, or your companions will find it amusing to splash you with nice ice cold water. It's murphys law before law of the jungle out there.
Regarding weight as well. A tent takes up space, and can get heavy. Recently we've switched to the new hammocks available today. they are covered semi-sealed affairs that have been working fantastically well for us - also saves the weight of a pad. However, I wouldn't suggest bringing one along and learning to use it on your trip. play with it a bit and get familiar with it first if you go that route. there's a few tricks to learn in how and where to set one up that you'll want to be familiar with beforehand.
pake.
dead on. learning what to pack, and how to pack is important. Veterans are instantly visible when you see someone portage. I tried the military MOLLE packs once but I tended towards placing lots of small add ons which hampered rather than helped. dragging across a portage like an ornamented camo christmas tree will discover hundreds of branches and snags you never knew existed. Went back to the old duluth pack and a dry/ditty bags. routine. Just plain easier. Pack the stuff you access often - at the top. I have never done solo trips due to that very aspect. even with a light canoe, 60#+ on my back and 40+ on my shoulders -walking over some of those rocks is not my first choice.
Doesn't take long to add up 60# either. usually 4 of us go. the food/cook pack alone is usually 60-100#. but then again, we always plan for never catching fish - and we eat pretty obnoxiously well too. We could get away with more of the pouch food and so forth - but we're kinda snobs in that respect. Each year one of us brings along something "special" for one day of the trip.
back to topic - if you carry, carry light, and polymer/nickel/parkerized and something you won't mind scratching or banging. you'll lose track of all kinds of things you'll bump against during the trip, and if you hip or shoulder carry - you're going to smack it on the canoe or a rock sooner or later. It's also going to get wet. it will rain, or if the weather is super nice and sunny all week - you will dump either launching or disembarking or take an unexpected splash, or your companions will find it amusing to splash you with nice ice cold water. It's murphys law before law of the jungle out there.
Regarding weight as well. A tent takes up space, and can get heavy. Recently we've switched to the new hammocks available today. they are covered semi-sealed affairs that have been working fantastically well for us - also saves the weight of a pad. However, I wouldn't suggest bringing one along and learning to use it on your trip. play with it a bit and get familiar with it first if you go that route. there's a few tricks to learn in how and where to set one up that you'll want to be familiar with beforehand.
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climbnjump
Member
Why? Well personally, I DO carry a gun in the BWCA for pretty much the same reason I carry elsewhere - you never know if you're GOING to need one until you do.
Fortunately, miscreants of either the two legged or four legged varieties are quite rare in the BWCA, but both been known to exist. However, in dozens of trips over the years, I have been assaulted only once and a firearm wasn't needed in that case. The solution was to quickly drop my pants. (Was sitting on a log eating lunch and a chipmunk ran up my pant leg.)
As others have mentioned, most dangers up there will be terrain and weather related. Lightning is a little thought of risk. One person I know had pitched her tent under a large tree which was struck in the middle of the night. She was squatting in the tent at the time and the electrical charge entered the bottoms of her feet and exited her buttocks. She was badly burned and had to be medivaced by float plane.
The BWCA is an amazing place, but like any backcounty travel, small mistakes can have large consequences, so plan accordingly.
One other warning... If you go skinny dipping on a nice warm day, don't lay down on a hot boulder to bask in the sun afterward or you might fall asleep only to be woken up by the sound of raucous laughter by other canoeists paddling by. Just sayin'...
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another pake
Member
I'm not telling anyone not to carry. But I did ask the OP why he was. His reasons are his. And I am very aware of the modern and not so modern accounts of ner-do-wells up there. For my part, and once again, To a Each His Own, my BW trips are usually firearm free for the reasons put forth. Plus importantly and as noted by the OP, there is Canada. I regularly cross as I have a remote border crossing permit as part of my seasonal gear, but guns are still taboo.
Having said that there's October, and each year in October there are few human travelers, but a splendor of fine paddling days, and that my friends is when I do carry... a SXS 20 ga short barreled coach gun slipped in the side of my Duluth pack. Those ports are full of grouse soaking up the last of summer's heat in sun dappled clearings on the trail.
Pack down quietly,
Gun out of the pack,
Bam, sometimes a second Bam.
Supper.
Life Is Good!
anothernewb
Member
*Sigh* sadly - some places you can do that these days.Can't you just carry a cell phone and dial 911 and wait for the Mounties if there's trouble?
one of the most endearing qualities of the BWCA was it's total lack of electronic interference. hence the name Wilderness Area - but I'll keep my more - vibrant - opinions out of it.
Unfortunatley - an influx of unprepared travelers and other political considerations have altered that forever - and I admittedly am among those who oppose it. Paddling 30 miles into one of the greatest and the last remaining (largely) unspoiled wilderness in an effort to enjoy nature - just to pitch your tent in the blinking red light of a cell tower. Kinda wrecks the experience.
Thermactor
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A Sig P226 Navy or M11 with phosphate coated internals would be ideal for tactical needs.
Thanks to all posters for very useful comments and advice.
Happily I will have the best help you can get -- a companion who has made many trips to the BWCA and is a world of information on routes, packing, you name it. He's been after me to go for a couple of years. I quit rough camping years ago but I've got a sign in my house that says "When Is The Last Time You Did Something For The First Time?" Trying to live up to that concept. We'll have two other people, experienced outdoors guys. Although wet/cold/tired/bugs does not necessarily sound inviting I suspect we'll have a good time anyway.
Why carry? I may, or may not. I consider it like a first aid kit: I take one of those along even though I may have no use for it and it might not even save me. There are enough comments here about carrying bear spray, even from those who say they don't carry there. I'm not itching for more weight, so we'll see. One thing is interesting from the comments -- people on this forum are shooters and it's unusual to see so many say they would not carry, at least not in this case.
Our plan is to enter at Round Lake and move through Long Island to Mora and Tuscarora and back to Round Lake.
Happily I will have the best help you can get -- a companion who has made many trips to the BWCA and is a world of information on routes, packing, you name it. He's been after me to go for a couple of years. I quit rough camping years ago but I've got a sign in my house that says "When Is The Last Time You Did Something For The First Time?" Trying to live up to that concept. We'll have two other people, experienced outdoors guys. Although wet/cold/tired/bugs does not necessarily sound inviting I suspect we'll have a good time anyway.
Why carry? I may, or may not. I consider it like a first aid kit: I take one of those along even though I may have no use for it and it might not even save me. There are enough comments here about carrying bear spray, even from those who say they don't carry there. I'm not itching for more weight, so we'll see. One thing is interesting from the comments -- people on this forum are shooters and it's unusual to see so many say they would not carry, at least not in this case.
Our plan is to enter at Round Lake and move through Long Island to Mora and Tuscarora and back to Round Lake.
Zaydok Allen
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In my local wilderness area there are two different companies that operate tourist helicopter rides. They regularly fly over the wilderness in summer about every fifteen to twenty minutes. They are supposed to stay at least 1000 feet above the trees and above the highest point in the wilderness. The noise is really infuriating.
When I'm sitting on top of the USGS marker at the summit, on bare rock, I can't help myself from giving them the finger as they buzz on by only 500-600 feet away. It's soooooo very disturbing to the experience. It turns out you need to get a clear picture of the bird's number on the tail in order to prosecute. I may be attempting to get some pictures that show their proximity, and then give them to my local FS LEO friend.
Given the need for weight savings and room, I suggest a XDs 45 or an XDm 3.8 in 45 with a stainless slide might be an appropriate choice, given the water exposure and unlikely case that the gun will be needed. Given the need to carry a lot of stuff at times, cross draw might be a good option to keep your strong side free of obstructions.
Ahh! A trip to hell! Wet, slippery, muddy, and bug infested! Sounds awesome!
I'm kidding of course. I grew up in the lake states and wetlands, especially huge tracts of them, are some of the most interesting environments in the world. The animals and plants that thrive there are uniquely adapted to the environment............ and there is just something calming about water. I'd definitely be spending some money on a waterproof camera. Once I left though for a more arid, mountainous environment, there was no going back. I think I'll stick to the desert and mountains for my recreation. I've lived in a mostly bug free place for 11 years now...... I gotta say I like that.
OP, if you're willing, post some pics when you get back, along with your carry choice and rig. This topic will undoubtedly come up again for others in the future.
another pake
Member
wgp, your upcoming trip sounds great! Going in off of the Gunflint will put you into some beautifully, rugged country and depending on your planned route and time table you'll be within striking distance of some great Brook Trout opportunities. Might be traveling through some of the big burn areas of a few years ago too. Seeing the regeneration is impressive.
As to the weather, bugs and other assorted challenges. You'll do fine if you remember..."There is no bad weather, just bad clothing." Bring decent rain gear, and good footwear. Volumes written and many opinions depending on who is talking and their preferences for loading and unloading. Wet foot, dry foot, etc. Some guys want full boots with ankle support, others travel in tennies or flip flops. Still others use rubber barn boots and try to never let water go over the tops. Whatever shoes you wear in the boat you probably also wear on the ports where you frequently are jumping over slippery boulders, mucking through mud or strolling over wooded ridges. Every kind gets wet sooner or later so bring dry socks. Regarding footwear, I recommend that you trust (somewhat) your friend as it is his traveling style that you will live with. Leave your blue jeans in the car for the ride home. Denim doesn't dry. Bring a hat, sunglasses, bug dope (tho I don't use the stuff) sun block, Chapstick.
Simple! It took me longer to type this than it takes me to throw my kit together for a trip. That's because the best time to decide what to take is when you're unpacking from your current trip. You'll soon figure out what worked and what didn't. My list has changed over the years; refined I guess you'll say. A comfortable, portable chair is at the top of my gear list, and it's not a sling/ bag chair. When I was 20 I sat on a boulder or a log, or the ground. That has gotten old, especially now that I'm 67. A durable light weight sleeping bag and pad, although some guys have switched to hammocks. They're good where there are trees. I've been to places where there weren't. And always for me there is my rain fly. No matter the weather, rain, snow, scorching sun or howling wind you can comfortably sit outside if you learn how to pitch a fly.
You should have a ball. I know that I do. With the right preparation and gear you can thrive out there.
As to the weather, bugs and other assorted challenges. You'll do fine if you remember..."There is no bad weather, just bad clothing." Bring decent rain gear, and good footwear. Volumes written and many opinions depending on who is talking and their preferences for loading and unloading. Wet foot, dry foot, etc. Some guys want full boots with ankle support, others travel in tennies or flip flops. Still others use rubber barn boots and try to never let water go over the tops. Whatever shoes you wear in the boat you probably also wear on the ports where you frequently are jumping over slippery boulders, mucking through mud or strolling over wooded ridges. Every kind gets wet sooner or later so bring dry socks. Regarding footwear, I recommend that you trust (somewhat) your friend as it is his traveling style that you will live with. Leave your blue jeans in the car for the ride home. Denim doesn't dry. Bring a hat, sunglasses, bug dope (tho I don't use the stuff) sun block, Chapstick.
Simple! It took me longer to type this than it takes me to throw my kit together for a trip. That's because the best time to decide what to take is when you're unpacking from your current trip. You'll soon figure out what worked and what didn't. My list has changed over the years; refined I guess you'll say. A comfortable, portable chair is at the top of my gear list, and it's not a sling/ bag chair. When I was 20 I sat on a boulder or a log, or the ground. That has gotten old, especially now that I'm 67. A durable light weight sleeping bag and pad, although some guys have switched to hammocks. They're good where there are trees. I've been to places where there weren't. And always for me there is my rain fly. No matter the weather, rain, snow, scorching sun or howling wind you can comfortably sit outside if you learn how to pitch a fly.
You should have a ball. I know that I do. With the right preparation and gear you can thrive out there.
climbnjump
Member
Well, method of carry... Regular holsters don't work the best because whichever side you wear it on, it will be in the way at one time or another when handling packs, canoes, etc.
What works best for me is actually a DeSantis Gunny Sack for a number of reasons. First it can be worn pretty much at any position on your waist and can be easily repositioned w/o having to actually take it off. And if you are portaging a pack, it can be connected between the shoulder straps and worn like a chest strap which gets it out of the way of the pack.
Also, I don't want to be wearing the gun while in the canoe in case the canoe goes over - no need to have that extra weight and bulk to deal with if you're in the water. So when I'm in the canoe, the Gunny Sack is clipped around a thwart so it stays with the canoe if it goes over. The GS will also protect the weapon from light rain and also makes a nice package for easy handling and stowing in the tent.
And last but not least, the GS keeps the weapon concealed. Whether or not that really matters is a personal choice, but I don't like to attract attention. The route you will be taking and the time you will be there means you will quite likely encounter a few folks on the portage trails.
One thought regarding your route... Do check with a local outfitter in June before you launch regarding the water levels on the Long Island to Mora section on the Frost River. A dry spring following a dry winter can make that section not-so-much-fun.
vito
Member
I've never been to the Boundary Waters but I have heard it is a fantastic experience. An acquaintance I knew used to (and maybe still does) go every year by himself. I asked him what he takes for self protection, from two or four legged threats, and he stated "a spoon". He said he had never had the slightest problem with any threats and loved the trip for the solitude and beauty of the wilderness. I have often regretted not going there myself, but I fear I am now a bit too old at 71 for that kind of vacation.
I grew up around Quetico Provincial Park, which borders the Boundary Waters Area to the north. My adult years were spent in the bush of the Northwest Territories, far to the north. We spent a lot of time canoeing, and in the far north the trails were mostly deserted.
In spite of the Canadian laws, I carried a handgun in the bush ALL the time when bears were out of hibernation, and most the the time when they were hibernating as well.
I carry in the bush for the same reason I carry in town: IT GIVES ME OPTIONS. We can't foresee everything, and the gun is simply a passenger..... until we need it. WHY would we need it? Who knows? "Better to have it, and not need it, than...."
Colonel Jeff Cooper: "The law of averages is faint comfort, if YOU are the exception."
Do NOT rely on the noise of a shot to scare away a bear. I once stood toe-to-toe with a large black bear (standing up on hind feet). I fired three full-power .44 Magnum rounds into the dirt between its hind feet.... and the critter he just looked at me. Range was less than five feet. It finally dropped to all fours and sauntered away.
A .44 Mag is a VERY loud handgun, and the bear wasn't impressed in the least.
Obviously, my vote says to take the handgun.... a POWERFUL handgun, not some peashooter.
In spite of the Canadian laws, I carried a handgun in the bush ALL the time when bears were out of hibernation, and most the the time when they were hibernating as well.
I carry in the bush for the same reason I carry in town: IT GIVES ME OPTIONS. We can't foresee everything, and the gun is simply a passenger..... until we need it. WHY would we need it? Who knows? "Better to have it, and not need it, than...."
Colonel Jeff Cooper: "The law of averages is faint comfort, if YOU are the exception."
Do NOT rely on the noise of a shot to scare away a bear. I once stood toe-to-toe with a large black bear (standing up on hind feet). I fired three full-power .44 Magnum rounds into the dirt between its hind feet.... and the critter he just looked at me. Range was less than five feet. It finally dropped to all fours and sauntered away.
A .44 Mag is a VERY loud handgun, and the bear wasn't impressed in the least.
Obviously, my vote says to take the handgun.... a POWERFUL handgun, not some peashooter.
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