Bow for defense

[DeseoUnTaco]

Just a little hypothetical question. I have a shotty for HD use, and that's nearly the best thing there is, but was thinking about how/if a bow could be used for HD. Again, no need because given a choice between a bow and a 12ga, I'll take the 12ga, but:

First problem: the bow needs to be strung all the time to be ready. Traditional recurves are not supposed to be left strung for extended periods. Compound bows are always strung and ready.

Second, more serious problem: Have you ever tried releasing a string with your bare fingers? You only try it once. At least I only did it once with my 50lbs recurve. Did you see Lord of the Rings where the elf grabs his bow all the time and just starts slingin' arrows? Maybe that's possible after building up enormous callouses over many years of practicing with light bows, but that's not possible for me. Is there a way to do string release that you can get into action quickly, in the dark, without fumbling? Or could the problem be avoided altogether with a very light bow, like 15lbs?

 

[Soap]

A bow is terrible for SD. You can't work it in tight spaces and you'll MAYBE get one shot off before the person is on top of you. 15lbs is way too light for nearly anything except letting a child learn archery. And yes, I used to bare finger release with my Browning Nomad recurve all the time. I don't shoot archery much anymore though.

 

[Kaylee]

Pretty much what Daniel said. Awful awful HD weapon, particularly inside.

I have noticed that it's not that hard at closer ranges to do the multiple-arrow thing. Velocity is a little decreased, but done right two arrows leaving the string at once will still land in the space of a torso at close range.

I can't imagine getting that to work with a finger tab though. (So yes, archery shooting bare-fingered is something you can get used to fairly quickly, albeit not for as long periods of time)

-K

 

[Shipwreck]

I'd rather have a crossbow, but then U still have the 1 shot problem...

 

[Puncha]

When I was in college in the UK, guns were not an option if my dorm was ever broken into. Hence, I took to keeping a 45 lb drawweight compound bow near my bed. It had 2 arrows attached to it in some sort of built-in arrow rack and my bed had a night light so that I would not have to nock the arrows in darkness.

Anyway, the plan was that if someone was trying to bash down my dorm room door, I'd grab the bow, nock an arrow and shoot the intruder in the COM if he broke through.

I was under no illusion that I would be able to achieve a one-shot stop with my bow unless I pierced the globin straight through the heart. My back-up plan was to drop the bow, grab a 1960s issue police issue baton and defend myself. I figured that with a pencil sized hole going straight through the perp's chest, I'd have some kind of advantage in a face-to-face struggle.

 

[lodwick]

A retired SecretService agent once told me that unless I was completely committed to the use of deadly force against an intruder, the youth league aluminum softball bat delivered smartly across the perp's shins would have a very good effect.

Said perp could then be beaten wherever else you desired once felled to the floor.

Stay safe, stay armed.

 

[yorec]

Well, ya could tie a stick o' dynamite to yer arrow and make up for that one stop problem. I know it can be done 'cause I saw a couple of good ol' boys shooting them from thier orange sporty car. Werked good.

(Agree with these other guys, not sufficient weapon for HD - but if it was all you had? I'd go with it not being the lay down and die sort.)

 

[lodwick]

Corey's Stuff

Good job - I sent the Dutch Oven page to a friend who always cooks us up some chow this way when we gather for shooting practice at his ranch.

Cheers.

 

[birddog]

Yes, a shot to the heart will do in your intruder. But not immediately, and if he happens to be armed with something more modern, ie; a GUN, he'll have plenty of time to put several rounds into YOUR COM before he expires. Might even have enough juice to pull the arrow out of the wall behind him and stab you to death with it.....Ouch! Imagine the embarassment.

I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[JShirley]

Might even have enough juice to pull the arrow out of the wall behind him and stab you to death with it.....Ouch! Imagine the embarassment.

You *are* joking, right?

John

 

[birddog]

Oh sure, sure I was joking....heheheheeee.

 

[Seven High]

I think that I would rather use a very large knife or short sword in a HD encounter at contact distance than a bow and arrows.

 

[agony]

There was an incident here locally that involved a criminal dressed in full hunting garb with a compound bow. He held up a convenience store with it. Scary.

 

[DeseoUnTaco]

Well, as I said, here in the US, I have a shotty, a Glock, etc, all of which will beat the bow at any range from zero on out. However in some other countries, people are less fortunate. I was reading that in South Africa, the Socialist government has passed a new weapons law. If you've ever been to SA, you know that you do NOT want to live there without a gun. This place is really dangerous. Everyone is afraid to walk around JB, houses have electric fences on them, etc. You need a gun. But they are trying to ban guns so apparently people are buying crossbows now.

Why would a crossbow be better than a sword or a knife? Even if it means you can only get in one shot, if that shot can hit an attacker before he gets into contact range, that's a big plus. Also, arrows ARE lethal, and can be quickly incapacitating. They cut a slice about an inch accross and would presumably fly all the way through an attacker. If that hits the heart, it's a fast game-over. If that hits anywhere else COM, it will cause enormous pain and bleeding. So he's still alive and can still fight; at least the fight is somewhat different because one of the participants has a bleeding hole in him.

And yes, SA's new gun law doesn't apply to criminals, obviously. I hope all the gun-rights-supporting South Africans (of all colors) can come over here and get citizenship and vote.

By the way, this is an amazing law for SA. I would not dream investing in SA or starting a biz there if I knew I wouldn't be able to defend myself. Also the increase in crime... it's almost as brain-dead as what is going on in nearby Zimbabwe. It used to be that you could get a CCW upon arrival at the airport in Johanesburg. No longer.

Anyway, back on topic, the crossbow has been an effective combat weapon for over 2,000, with the Chinese having developed a multi-shot fast-cycling short-range crossbow, in use until the 1800s.

In fact, here is a reference about a Chinese repeating crossbow, claiming they were useful to ranges of about 70 yards, and could fire TWO SHOTS PER SECOND:

http://www.arco-iris.com/George/chu-ko-nu.htm

Two per second is better than what a low-skilled shooter could get out of many modern guns.

 

[middy]

Also the increase in crime... it's almost as brain-dead as what is going on in nearby Zimbabwe.

You do realize that gun control is never about public safety except in the minds of its most naive advocates?

 

[Luchtaine]

well you could always use the bow while they are still in the door way and if they insist on comming at you with an arrow in them you can go to melee with a sword or something or a bat, knife, hammer, rolling pin, pipe, pen, oh my favorite poker for your fireplace. This would be assumeing that you have no firearm.

I don't really remember or know if its true but I heard there were some asian swat type teams use crossbows to penetrate body armor when over penetration is a problem. I guess a heavy enough crossbow will defeat soft body armor and stay in the target.

 

[Capt Cope]

Not to be rude, but if you own a bow, you must know how it kills: blood loss. This in not a good thing for you in a HD situation, as the perp will be able to function for quite a long time after being shot with an arrow. In the close quarters that you will be in (and it had better be close, or you will go to prison for murder, you have to make a valid case for self-defense) said arrow ridden perp will slowly bleed out, able to utilize any weapons he may have had on him. Unlike a gun which kills on hydro shock shutting down vital organs very quickly, arrows only slice flesh/organs/(hopefully) arteries or veins.
If you have ever been bow hunting you know what I am talking about, I have seen deer take a perfect shot with an arrow bolt off and run for at least a mile before settleing down to die (in one case it wasn't even dead at that point, and we had been tracking it for a good 30-45 min.) Add to that the adrenaline factor that the perp will have had (He IS breaking into your residence after all, and that is bound to get his blood pumping) and you will have a seriously pissed off man intent on killing you.

Stick to a baseball bat, or a shotgun, just remember that even 00 buck will penetrate many walls, so watch what you shoot! http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

 

[Sunray]

Lord of the Rings is a movie. What you see in movies isn't real. There's no such thing as an elf. Or a Klingon or Vulcan either.
A 15 lb bow will whip both your fingers and your forearm. And it hurts. Even the archers at Crecy and Agincourt used a glove or tab.
"...a Chinese repeating crossbow..." Saw one in use some years ago. Lots of bolts in the air but zero accuracy. It's actually a crew served, mag fed, bolt action, crossbow that was used from castle walls. Slick toy though.
"...that you can get into action quickly, in the dark, without fumbling?..." Not without a great deal of the practice you don't have time to do.

 

[hso]

DUT,

A bow is not a good option for home defense.

 

[MrAcheson]

Not to be rude, but if you own a bow, you must know how it kills: blood loss.

If you own a gun, you must know how it kills: blood loss. Hydrostatic shock is complete BS. Talk to any wound ballistician and he will tell you, people die of gunshot wounds because blood loss causes a catastrophic drop in blood pressure. Yes you might get lucky and hit CNS or some other such thing, but in the end what you can count on is blood loss from a big wound.

The difference between an arrow and bullet is that the bullet doesn't plug the holes it makes like the arrow will. So you bleed out faster with bullets. Plus the arrow is a cutting weapon so it makes relatively neat compact wounds. Bullets rip and tear their way though the body and produce more trauma.

 

[DeseoUnTaco]

hso:

A bow is not a good option for home defense.

As I said, a purely hypothetical question. If a bow is the only projectile weapon you have, then it's the best projectile weapon you have. If you have a gun (almost any gun) then it's better than a bow for almost any use, and as I said, I own a gun. Several in fact. Including a 12ga that's set up for HD and easily accessible.

As yes I realize the Lord of the Rings is a movie, there are no elves, etc. I know that there was a time before guns (yes there really was) when people DID use bows as military weapons and perhaps as defensive weapons, and was wondering how they managed that. And today there are some places where guns are outlawed, and people have to scratch their heads and ask themselves, "Which would be more effective, a bow or an airgun?"

So I was just wondering what are the practical realities: how do you release a string? That kind of thing.

And in fact, I have found a ref of bows being used for defense in modern times:

As part of Operation North, Minister Bigombe created "Arrow Groups", mostly armed with bows and arrows, as a form of local community defense. As the LRA was armed with modern weaponry, the bow-and-arrow groups were overpowered.

This in Uganda. It didn't work too well for them:

the creation of the Arrow Groups angered Kony, who began to feel that he no longer had the support of the population. In response the LRA mutilated numerous Acholi who they believed to be government supporters, (torture description deleted) or simply hacking them to death with machetes.

However, it was probably better than the alternative, which is suffering the same fate without having done anything about it.