BP In Modern Firearms

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My understanding of the designation "Special" on cartridges from the turn of the century (38 Special, 44 Special, 32 Winchester Special), was meant to indicate that after shooting them as factory loaded smokeless rounds, they could then be hand reloaded as black powder rounds.

That is the first time I ever heard that. Care to mention where you heard it?

What about 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, to name a few? After shooting them as factory loads they can be loaded with Black Powder too.

Personally, I have always considered 'Special' was simply a marketing term and had no real significance.
 
I want some real black to try, but I have about 8 pounds of pyrodex to use up first. A lot of that will go into 16ga shells so no worries.

16ga pyrodex loads will kill a squirrel at 17 yards.

16 ga Pyrodex 1 1/8 oz 4s is 35 yard squirrel and rabbit load.
 
My understanding of the designation "Special" on cartridges from the turn of the century (38 Special, 44 Special, 32 Winchester Special), was meant to indicate that after shooting them as factory loaded smokeless rounds, they could then be hand reloaded as black powder rounds.

I have heard that, too, but...
.38 Special and .44 Special were originally factory loaded with black powder and then updated with smokeless.
The .32 Winchester Special was a smokeless factory load to begin with but usable with black.

As DJ says, you can reload about anything with black if you want to, the .32 Special is the only one I know of made for the purpose.
 
It's a myth that the 32 Special was intended to be reloaded with black powder. It was intended to be a beefed up version of the 30-30. Both were smokeless from the get go. People did reload both with BP as that was what they were used to. The 32-40 in single shot rifles was a darling of the target shooting crowd who came up with the slow rifling. The '94 was offered in 32-40 (a BP cartridge) and then for a few dollars extra for better steel in 32 Special, but kept the slow twist. As they were originally loaded the 32 Special had about a 10% edge over the 30-30 in muzzle energy.

There is an offbeat connection with the 8x57 German military cartridge here. Winchester once found themselves stuck with a bin full of 8 mm bullets. To get rid of them they loaded them in 32 Special cartridges. Being somewhat undersized, they gave rise to the myth about 32 Specials loosing accuracy with a worn bore.

The term "special" was just a meaningless advertising term.
 
At the gun counter, looking at a Ruger Old Army and a 90-ish yo says;

Understand that from the time I could put together a rational thought, I’ve been fascinated by guns. My mother used to prop me in front of the little round picture box as a baby so I could watch men on horseback shooting at each other with guns...

When I was twelve, no longer interested in playing with the Daisy BB guns my friends had. I was above owning one of those childish things... but not above borrowing one to play with every once in awhile. And Ritchie? Sorry about the eye, buddy. But at least it kept you out of the army...

I turned fifteen and wanted my own black powder revolver, but I was just a bit short in the savings department. Not being the patient sort, I chose the most expedient means to get the money. As I look back now, I suppose I am sorry those junior high kids couldn’t turn in their paper route money that week...

I’d been looking at a pretty, brass-framed BP revolver in the case at Shattuck’s Hardware for a couple of months, and boy! Was I ever proud the day I went in and plunked down the money for it! Eleven dollars in one dollar bills... and eighteen dollars in quarter and dimes. Old Man Shattuck was a great old guy, whose eyesight, thankfully, had gotten really bad over the years... otherwise he’d have chased me out of the store like he used to after he caught me stealing that Barlow when I was thirteen... but he didn’t recognize me as he sold me the .36 caliber pistol... he even threw in a box of pure lead balls with the pistol and percussion caps when I bought the pound of black powder. I told Mr. Shattuck that I was anxious to shoot it and was heading straight for the dump, and asked him to show me how to load the gun. “It’s pretty simple,” I recall his telling me. “You measure your powder into the cylinder chamber, put a bullet over it, ram it down in with the hinged thing under the barrel, put your cap over a nipple, and you’re set to shoot.” I thanked him for his help and headed for the door.

“One last thing!” he called to me as I was running out the door, “Don’t forget to put grease over your balls! Crisco works fine!” I didn’t understand the need for the last part, but I stopped at Tony’s Grocery and bought a little blue can of Crisco grease. And now... to the dump! Where bottles and cans, rats and crows were just waiting for this ol’ cowboy to do ‘em in!

I replayed Mr. Shattuck’s instructions in my head as I laid out all my gear on the smoothed-out, brown paper bag at my feet. The first thing I realized was that I didn’t have anything to measure the powder with... UNTIL I remembered my knife! I carried one of those folding stag handled camper’s knives– you know, the ones with a fork on one side and a spoon on the other? The spoon was perfect for what I needed! Very carefully (thank heaven there wasn’t any wind blowing) I poured a spoonful of powder from the can into the spoon, then tipped the spoon up and tapped the powder into the cylinder. Sure, I spilled a bunch over because the spoon held so much more, but what the heck! Powder was cheap, back then... and I had plenty to spare...

Being a methodical kind of kid, I filled all six chambers with the powder, managing to spill as much around my feet, I suppose, as I was getting into the cylinder. I can laugh now, but when I bent over to get the bullets all the powder fell out of the cylinders onto my boots... so I had to fill them all over again! I managed to get all the chambers filled with powder and then stuck a bullet into the first cylinder... I had to really tap it in with my knife to get it started... then shoved it in as far as it would go with the rammer thing. I lost a little powder in the process, but eventually I had all six chambers loaded and ready to go. Then I put percussion caps over the things sticking out the ends of the cylinders...

Oops! I forgot a couple of things!

Now, I’ll admit my ignorance about a lot of things... but why I was supposed to smear Crisco on my balls is still a mystery to me. But I figured Old Man Shattuck knew what he was about, so I looked around to make sure I was alone, then dropped my pants to my knees, opened the can of Crisco and began to smear it over Lefty and Righty. Standing there in the hot summer sun, slowly massaging soft, silky grease into my scrotum... gee WHIZ! I guess the old man knew what he was talking about after all ! Welcome to the joys of shooting! I had to force myself out of my reverie...

One last thing and then I’d be ready to shoot... I took my baseball cap off and stuffed it inside my shirt over my left nipple. Okay... I guessed I was ready (except, of course, that in my haste I’d forgotten to pull up my pants...)

Well sir, I crooked my left arm out in front of my face, rested the trigger guard of the pistol in my right hand on it, drew a tight bead on an old Four Roses bottle, and squeezed the trigger. I remember a bright flash, a burning sensation on my arm and face, then something hit me square in the forehead and the lights went out.

It must have been quite sometime later when I awoke. I was laid out across the back seat of Sheriff Miller’s car (I knew this from the plexi-glass partition and a previous ride when I’d been 13), the rider’s side door was open and my feet and lower legs were hanging out. As I raised my head to look for the source of the voices I heard I felt like someone had hit me in the head with a sledgehammer. I could see two men in the dim, evening light, just outside the door and within my range of vision. At least, I thought they were two men... I could hear two speaking but they were sorta spinning around and they looked like six. From the voices I knew they were Sheriff Miller and my Dad...

“... busy on another call so the volunteer fire department was the first out here,” I heard the Sheriff explaining to my dad. “Mabel Krutchner called it in... said she saw smoke comin’ from the dump and had heard an awful explosion over this way."


“Near as I can tell from what the firemen say, when they got here they found your boy lying over there. At first they thought he was dead. The dump was on fire all around him, his left arm and face were all black, his boots were scorched pretty badly, he had a HUGE knot on his forehead where somebody’d cold-cocked him... And... well, we think the boy’s been... well, taken advantage of.”

“What do you mean ‘Taken advantage of?’” I heard my dad ask.

“Well, Al, it’s like this,” the Sheriff said. “The first men to get to your boy said he was unconscious; they found part of a gun by his body; his pants were down around his ankles, his crotch was smeared with KY Jelly and he was sportin’ a big boner...”

Then I heard Mr. Shattuck’s voice. “I always knew there was something wrong with that boy...This will probably keep him out of the army...”

And THAT’S why I don’t shoot black powder!
 
[QUOTE="Seedy Character, post:
Then I heard Mr. Shattuck’s voice. “I always knew there was something wrong with that boy...This will probably keep him out of the army...”[/QUOTE]
A wee bit of a warning would have been nice.
I just shot rootbeer out my nose & it burns like hell!
 
[QUOTE="Seedy Character, post:
Then I heard Mr. Shattuck’s voice. “I always knew there was something wrong with that boy...This will probably keep him out of the army...”
A wee bit of a warning would have been nice.
I just shot rootbeer out my nose & it burns like hell![/QUOTE]

The guy at the gun counter was drinking HOT coffee
 
@SmeeAgain, how did you load your .22 rounds?
I'm older than dirt and for all my life until a few years ago I believed it was impossible to reload a rimfire cartridge.
Then I ran across a neat little kit online that contains everything you need. Even a bullet mold which also doubles as a case crimper.
You obviously start out with a used, empty casing. Included in the kit is a little brass "hockey stick" that effectively removes the carbon, ash, debris from the inside of the rim.
Then you mix your powdered primer compound with denatured alcohol to make a paste / slurry. Once mixed into a workable form, you push that into the rim, then set it aside to dry. I let mine sit overnight.
The kit also comes with a tiny plastic powder measure / spoon for smokeless powder. Your choice, smokeless or black powder.
Note if using BP fill the case to the top then use the bullet to compress the powder. No air gap!
Cast your bullet. The mold has two choices. 25 grain & 40 grain. I used the 40.
Once you have a bullet, seat it by hand, then crimp it in place with the same bullet mold / crimper.
The end result looks and performs exactly as factory ammo!
Now you still have a mark / dimple on the rim from the previous use but the chances of hitting the exact same spot are very slim. Of the fifty or so I tried, all functioned perfectly on the first try. Even with semi-auto.
Is it practical when .22 rimfire is cheap & plentiful? Of course not. But... not if, but when the day comes when it isn't, we will ALWAYS have .22 s,l,lr & magnum we can reload ourselves.
As for empty brass... nobody in the history of the world has picked up spent .22 empty brass. There are literally tons of it lying anywhere people have been target shooting.
I had quite a bit of fun experimenting with that little kit. I hope I never NEED it, but it's there if I do.
.22 rimfile is better than a rock or a stick.
 
A wee bit of a warning would have been nice.
I just shot rootbeer out my nose & it burns like hell!

The guy at the gun counter was drinking HOT coffee[/QUOTE]
Rootbeer & hot coffee is bad enough. Once I was eating a tuna sandwich when someone caught me off guard! You can imagine how painful that was!
 
We were doing Vodka shots (back in my college days). Just as my buddy slammed a shot, somebody dropped a one liner. He blew the vodka out and thought he was going to die.

Of course, none of us laughed at him.
 
You don't.
You load .22 LR with black powder.
Every once in a while, there is a batch of primed cases.
Otherwise, it is a matter of pulling bullets and discarding the nitro.

I don't know anybody loading .22 WMR with black but it should be even easier.
 
Check it out.


33 rounds is actually better than I expected. In the real world it's doubtful that one would need that many rounds before having the opportunity to clean it.
My biggest concern isn't the filth, it's the degraded performance of the relatively short acp casing. .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum and of course the .45 Long Colt would be preferred. But then you still have the cleaning issue.
Still better than a stick.
 
You don't.
You load .22 LR with black powder.
Every once in a while, there is a batch of primed cases.
Otherwise, it is a matter of pulling bullets and discarding the nitro.
You are mistaken. While your method certainly is possible, it defeats the entire purpose of reloading .22 rimfire.
Imagine a future when ammunition is unavailable. (coming soon to your neighborhood)
Having the ability to reload your own or previously discarded cases, along with the ability to make every component necessary from materials that will ALWAYS be available is the point.
The .22 rimfire has many advantages that other cartridges don't. Those are multiplied in a shtf situation. Having the ability to make a virtually unlimited supply is of colossal importance.
 
That is the first time I ever heard that. Care to mention where you heard it?

What about 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, to name a few? After shooting them as factory loads they can be loaded with Black Powder too.

Personally, I have always considered 'Special' was simply a marketing term and had no real significance.

Hi DJ,
Don't recall where I heard that, but it was sometime in the last 10 years or so...
 
You are mistaken. While your method certainly is possible, it defeats the entire purpose of reloading .22 rimfire.

I was speaking of what currently active shooters are doing to study the original ammo.

Entirely different from laboriously repriming a rimfire case and REloading it in a repressive regime or post apocalyptic future.
 
I was speaking of what currently active shooters are doing to study the original ammo.

Entirely different from laboriously repriming a rimfire case and REloading it in a repressive regime or post apocalyptic future.
That makes a lot more sense! I'll practice up on my reading comprehension skills.
 
I want some real black to try, but I have about 8 pounds of pyrodex to use up first. A lot of that will go into 16ga shells so no worries.
I was looking at a bottle of pyrodex in a local sporting goods shop recently and wondering if I should try it in some .43 Magnum handloads. Is clean-up with that stuff any more forgiving than genuine black?
 
"Is clean-up with that stuff any more forgiving than genuine black?"

Nope, it is the same. Maybe not as corrosive, over time, but no easier to clean.
 
I was looking at a bottle of pyrodex in a local sporting goods shop recently and wondering if I should try it in some .43 Magnum handloads. Is clean-up with that stuff any more forgiving than genuine black?

It's about the same. Some will tell you it's worse but it's not.
 
I was looking at a bottle of pyrodex in a local sporting goods shop recently and wondering if I should try it in some .43 Magnum handloads. Is clean-up with that stuff any more forgiving than genuine black?
I shoot mostly pyrodex. The cleaning is the same as BP. I use pyrodex because it is easier to obtain.
 
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