BP Revolver

[marine71]

I'm just getting into BP (got my Hawken a month ago) and now I want an 1858 stainless steel .44. My gun shop guy said to go with a Taylor, no question.

Is Taylor a good choice or is there another reliable brand to consider? Thanks guys!

 

[Tommygunn]

Taylor's will be the distributor, not the make of the gun. They probably sell Uberti revolvers, and those are usually top-notch. They might sell other brands, too, but I am not sure of that

 

[Zullo74]

I think you'll find that Taylor imports guns, not manufactures them.

Most of their cap&ball revolvers are imported from Uberti in Italy. There are none finer!

 

[mike101]

Taylors has the new one with the forged (as opposed to cast) frame. $266. It's the 1st one on the page.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/bpRemingtonCollection.tpl


www.taylorsfirearms.com

 

[Starter52]

Uberti make very good BP revolvers, probably the best in Italy; but for "none finer" you should check out the Ruger Old Army.

And please don't think that stainless steel is a MUST for BP revolvers. Old-fashion blued steel works just fine.

Good luck with your new gun.

 

[Zullo74]

Starter,

True the Ruger Old Army is a fine revolver. I was thinking reproductions of original revolvers. The Ruger Old Army is a MODERN cap and ball revolver.

 

[mike101]

So, how about an Uberti World Class '58 Remington. MSRP $580. There's one on www.Gunsamerica.com, right now under Uberti Pistols, for $425.

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/WorldClassNewArmy.tpl

 

[marine71]

Taylor...

OK- I was wondering why I had never heard of Taylor. Uberti- I do know. And I like their revolvers.

I don't mind blued- but I love stainless. And now I'm torn because I have seen the revolving carbine and I want one of those to. Sweet Jesus, all these guns and not enough money.

 

[mykeal]

Sources for 1858 Remington New Army

There are at least 4 sources for the new forged frame Uberti 1858 Remington New Army:
http://www.possibleshop.com/uberti.htm
http://www.octobercountry.com/products3.php?productid=915
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/bpRemingtonCollection.tpl
http://thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/revolvers.htm

They range from $258 to $266.

The least expensive steel frame Uberti is the Millennium finish from The Possible Shop at $199. Texas Jack's is $190 but the maker is not specified. Texas Jack is affiliated with Cimarron and they deal in Uberti made guns, so it's likely the same one.
http://www.possibleshop.com/uberti.htm
http://www.texasjacks.com/BlkPowder/TJ-CA104-58ArmyMil.htm

For the regular blued steel cast frame, S&S seems to have the least expensive Uberti at $225.
http://www.ssfirearms.com/images/07 Cat/SS0752-67.pdf

Taylor's regular blued steel cast frame Uberti is $254, just $12 less than the forged frame.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/bpRemingtonCollection.tpl

MidwayUSA, Arms2Armor and Thunder Ridge are all in the $250-$254 range for that same Uberti gun.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=722781
http://arms2armor.com/store/product32.html
http://thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/revolvers.htm

Stainless steel finish Uberti's start at $320 from October Country and range up to $419 for a target version from MidwayUSA. Dixie Gun Works and the Possible shop offer the stainless steel Uberti for $325. Taylor's and Thunder Ridge charge $345 for the stainless steel Uberti.
http://www.octobercountry.com/products3.php?productid=922
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=4057
http://www.possibleshop.com/uberti.htm
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/bpRemingtonCollection.tpl
http://thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/revolvers.htm

You should be able to find what you want from the above, but there are lots of different manufacturers, finishes, barrel lengths and materials available. I've found some 96 different versions in all, and that's not all the suppliers available.

Taylor's has a good reputation for quality and customer service, and their prices are average, so they'd be a good choice. Although, there's nothing wrong with any of these...

 

[Zullo74]

As long as we are putting up a list of suppliers, don't forget Buffalo Arms. They also have a good assortment.

 

[mykeal]

Buffalo Arms...

Yep. I knew it. There was one I'd forgotten to survey. Thanks for the reminder.

There are several suppliers I didn't mention in my post above as they were more expensive for the same gun. Also, if they didn't specify the manufacturer, I didn't pass along their reference, as Uberti is the one stocked by Taylor's and I wanted to keep the number of variables down.

However, I did forget to survey Buffalo Arms, so I'll add them to my database today. They reference Cimarron as their supplier, and Cimarron sells "cherry-picked" Ubertis, and their prices ($253) seem to be a bit better than the others (Arms2Armor, $263, and Cimarron directly, $277) selling the blued steel Cimarron guns. I didn't find a stainless steel offering, though.

 

[mykeal]

Suppliers List

Here are the suppliers I've surveyed for the 1858 Remington New Army. If anyone has knowledge of one I missed, please let me know. Thanks.

Arms2Armor
Brush Creek
Bud'sGunShop
Buffalo Arms
Cabela's
Cimarron
Deer Creek
Dixie Gun Works
EMF
Midway USA
October Country
Possible Shop
S&S
Taylor's
Texas Jack
Thunder Ridge

 

[Oldnamvet]

Sportsmans Guide??
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=264846

 

[rifle]

the pietta rem is usually more accurate from what i've read. cabelas sells them cheapest.

 

[mykeal]

Sportsman's Guide and Cabela's

Oldnamvet - thanks for the lead. Sportsman's Guide is an outlet for Traditions imports, which is not a bad thing necessarily, but Traditions doesn't identify the manufacturer. I was very confused by their shipping policy statements, however. Plus, Sportsman's Guide price for the 1858 Remington New Army is $104 more than direct from Traditions! I will include them in my next survey. Thanks, again.

Rifle - yes, well, maybe. Cabela's sells a steel frame 1858 Remington New Army for a very good price - $200. However, they don't reveal the manufacturer. It probably is Pietta, but I can't confirm that from the online catalog. That does NOT mean it's a poor quality gun, but most people want to know the original manufacturer. The competition for lowest price steel framed 1858 Remington New Army is Texas Jacks, at $199, and it's maker is not identified either; it's probably Uberti, but it's not specified.

I'm surprised at the statement about Pietta being more accurate. I've not seen data showing either Pietta or Uberti as more accurate. If you find that again I'd like to see it.

 

[BigBlock]

The next 1858 I buy will definately be another Euroarms. They are the only ones that actually are a complete replica. I got my stainless one for only $250 from Dixie Gun Works, and stainless is going to be stronger than anything made of regular steel. It hasn't had a single missfire in about 200 shots, including my first time ever loading a muzzleloader, so I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Also, Euroarms is the only company that chamfers the edge of the cylinder, therefore, doesn't shave a ring of lead, making a tighter seal and a heavier protectile. (IE better accuracy)

 

[Zullo74]

Big Block wrote......

.....and stainless is going to be stronger than anything made of regular steel.

What on Earth makes you think that? Stainless is just as strong (not stronger) than carbon (regular) steel. It's also harder to machine and less susceptible to rust, but NOT impervious to it. There are many grades of stainless steel and that's what determines it's properties. As to your gun being a "complete" replica, there was no stainless steel in 1858!

 

[BigBlock]

The strength of the gun really is irrelivant, whether it's carbon steel, forged, stainless, or otherwise. It's all a hell of alot stronger than it was in 1858, and even the cheapest steel is more than strong enough to do the job. But yes, stainless is stronger than mild steel, especially the crappy steel they use to make these $200 guns.

Also, the material it's made out of has little to do with it's replica status, my point is, Euroarms is the only gun who's parts are completely interchangeable with the originals.

 

[mykeal]

Authenticity...

Originally posted by BigBlock:
"Also, the material it's made out of has little to do with it's replica status, my point is, Euroarms is the only gun who's parts are completely interchangeable with the originals."

In my opinion, the material has everything to do with status as a replica. A gun made with the same molecular material and process treatments as an original has a much more authentic status than one made with, say, plastic, to use an absurd example.

A stainless steel 1858 Remington New Army is a replica of the original in dimension and function only. A blued steel version has the same status in my opinion, depending on the finishing process. There's nothing wrong with that; I like the look of a stainless model just as much as the blued ones. And frankly, an all plastic version would have the same status if it fired safely and looked like real metal.

As for interchangeability of the action parts, well, even the original parts were not always interchangeable without some filing and polishing, so that criteria is moot.

Euroarms makes a good gun, but if authenticity is really important, they are no more authentic than Pietta or Uberti in my opinion. And I respect yours even in disagreement. Buy the one you like the most, and enjoy shooting it. It's fun.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

Do you have a Sportsman's Warehouse nearby?

If so, they have steel frame Pietta Colt replica's for $150 - lowest price I've seen. They don't sell on-line but you can locate a store on their web site http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com

I like Dixie Gun Works myself but have also purchased from Cabela's - mostly because you can fondle before you buy.

The 1858 is really primo if you intend to utilize spare cylinders or conversion cylinders. However, I don't like the way they look - to my eye, the Colts are so much better and its nothing to tap out the key for cleaning.

Just depends on what you want it for.

 

[Cincinnati Slim]

Pietta versus Uberti Stainless Remmies

Saw a thread on this board a while ago with a close pictoral compro of the Uberti vs. Pietta Remington NMA (1858 is really a misnomer, it's a new model Army) in stainless. Grip frame on the Pietta was quite a bit longer and the frame was a little more beefy. Cylinder was also a touch (about a 0.10 inch) longer if I recall. If you have big hands/long fingers the Pietta is less cramped behind the trigger guard, something some shooters of Remmies complain about.

External finish on the Uberti was a little better with Italian brand/proofmarks less prominent and the front sight is dovetail mounted which is a plus for adjustment/replacement. The stainless guns are worth the extra money. They are "premium" products and get more attention in fit and finish handiwork. Care and cleanup is easier than a blue steel gun.

For an interesting "two-tone" variation try the "Old Silver" Pietta. It's a premium product with checkered grips, laser engraving, polished stainless and blue combo. I know a couple of folks who have gotten these recently. They are very distinctive and very well built. All the examples I know of are really good shooters; worth the extra money.

Any way you good, a stainless Remmie is an excellent choice for a practical shooting cap and ball revolver. Get a couple of extra cylinders while you are at it !

Happy Trails,

Cincinnati Slim

 

[mike101]

Uberti World Class Remington

Sorry about that url above. It seems that Uberti stopped making them, and pulled the picture from their website. It was there when I posted the link.

Anyway, it's stainless, and engraved. The World Class guns are given more attention regarding fit and finish, and Uberti claims that better materials are used. Here is a link to the one on Gunsamerica. This picture isn't nearly as good as the one on Uberti's site. They are really beautiful. Click on the thumbnail.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976811324.aspx

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

I have a Pietta 1858 Remington and if the grips on the other makes is smaller, I would have a heck of a time shooting one. As it is now I cannot get all my fingers on the grip when holding it, have to have my little finger underneath the grip. People must of had tiny hands in the Wild West days if they considered the Remington grip large.

 

[DrLaw]

As for Cabelas, almost every pistol they sell is Pietta. Only the 1849 Pocket is Uberti. The Millenium might be Uberti.

I bought a Navy Remington .36 from Cabelas (They call it the New Model Army Police) and it is Pietta. The quality was less than I imagined it should be.
I had to tweak it a lot to get the action smooth. The mainspring does not hold the hammer on the nipple. I had to put a few metal shims in front of the spring to make it almost tight. Replacement springs did not help, either. Also, there was machining marks on the frame. It now shoots, and shoots well, but I was very disappointed when I got it and before I worked on it. :banghead:

I have since bought three Uberti's, two on sale (Dixie and Midway) and one I did not wait for a sale. I have been very happy that I did. Two were basically perfect out of the box, one needed some filing on the hand to get it to work correctly, but that took all of a couple minutes. Now it functions flawlessly.

Nothing else now but Uberti's for me.

The Doc is out now.

 

[flibuste]

Hello Gaucho Gringo,

Pietta has increased the size of the frame and grip on their Rem 44 since the 70s. I have a Rem 44 manufactured in 1970 and the frame and grips are very small like originals. The same manufactured in the 80s has a much larger grips and frame although cylinders are identical. The barrel is thicker also. I have a 2007 Rem 44 sheriff and the frame and grip are also very large but the cylinder is no more identical because the notches are wider. I have a 36 brass frame and the frame is even larger but because of the brass I imagine.

All of them are Pietta but no grips are identical in size !!!

One very strong point of Pietta in France is that the price of componants is much cheaper than Uberti : You can get all the internal parts of a Pietta (including hammer) for 18 euros , i.e less than the cost of a Uberti hammer

You probably have an older version or a new one and very big hands !!!

Regards