Break out the rulers!

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the naked prophet

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In the quest to find a gun that my wife can shoot with her tiny 5-year-old-girl hands, we have looked at a Kel-Tec P32, a Glock 27, and others. We have thus far been unsuccessful. Even though she can hold and fire some of them, either the trigger pull is so long that she can't really reach it (P32) or she can't get a full grip on the gun and therefore can't control the recoil (Glock 27, although it's her favorite after the Browning Hi-Power).

She recently read that for a proper gun-hand fit, the center of the guns backstrap should fit in the web of the hand, and the first joint of the finger should fit on the trigger (http://www.corneredcat.com/ - thanks Pax!). Apparently I never got around to telling her this? So we try on every gun in the house and every gun store within 100 miles, and they're all too big for her.

The guns we've tried are a .45 1911, Browning Hi-Power, Glock 9mm/.40, Kel-Tec P11 and P32, Spanish Ruby, a Makarov, a J-frame S&W revolver, a K-frame S&W revolver in single-action mode, and others that we don't remember.

We measured from the middle of the web of her hand to the crease of her last/first (whichever is closest to the fingertip) knuckle, and we get right at 3 inches. I measure 4 inches.

If you could please break out your tiniest guns and measure them! She likes big calibers, and if we can find one that fits her hand, she can handle it, even in a tiny size. Single action guns come closer, because the trigger pull is not as long. The 1911 comes pretty close because of its short trigger and single stack grip, but it's still too large, even with the ultra-slim carbon fiber grips.

To measure your gun, take a thin strip of paper, or a string etc, and wrap it around the grip through the trigger guard. Measure how long the string is, and if the total circumference is 6 inches or less please let us know what gun it is so we can try it out! We had been thinking about the new Springfield EMP (micro-1911, short action 9mm) but we can't find one in any gun stores, or anyone who owns one who can give us the measurements.

We greatly appreciate any help on this issue! Incidentally, there may be a Glock 27 up for sale to help pay for any gun we may find that works...

The guns that have been measured and suggested so far include:

Kahr PM9 or PM40 - exactly 6 inches
Ruger SP101 - just under 6 inches
S&W Lady Smith model 60 .38 - 5 3/4 inches

Guns that have been suggested but no measurements so far include:

Colt Mustang .380
Springfield EMP 9mm
Glock 36 (slim .45)

Thanks to anyone who helps us out!
 
I think the measurement idea may be well grounded, but the key ingredient is feel. If it feels good in her hand, then that is her gun. If a gun doesn't feel right when you first pick it up then it never will, obviously some revolvers can be made to fit the hand with custom made grips, in general they only make a good fitting gun fit a bit better.

If a J-frame Smith is too big for her with all the grips offered, then she's got some real problems. Maybe a Bearcat, but that's not a defensive type weapon although it's a dandy plinker.
 
Colt Government .380 @ 5 5/8" around trigger and backstrap.
This is the "full size" version of Mustang, two more shots, more sight radius, conventional recoil spring, but no bigger butt. One trainer used these for ladies to give them a gun they could grasp but still be a "real gun" = centerfire. It is recoil operated and kick is light for its weight and caliber.

Colt 1903 .32 @ 5 7/16"
Also applies to 1908 .380 but that is a bit of a kicker being a blowback.

Charter Arms Pathfinder @ 5 5/16" cocked, 6 1/16" DA with old small grips.
Also applies to older Undercover .38 and the occasional .32. Dunno about the new stuff, old style grips might well fit instead of the rubber.

S&W Kit Gun @ 5 1/4" cocked, 5 7/8" DA with old small Magna walnut grips.
Also applies to any J-frame Smith with the old small wood grips.
This was my petite Mother's personal weapon.
A Model 60 3" or the odd 5" shot with those grips, shot single action, would be a very small handling gun for .38 Specials.

Revolver grip circumference with the old small walnut grips is less than current models with fat rubber grips. Grips are mostly interchangeable within frame sizes.

Colt SAA is hard to measure, the plowhandle grip does not have an obvious minimum that a DA revolver or auto does. Depending on how high a grip you take on the gun, the circumference would be 5 5/8" - 6". There are several current clones with smaller grips that would take a bit off of that. The USFA Rodeo feels thinner than a real Colt and the EMF Evil Roy Special is advertised as having slim grips.

Guns to get a look at but I do not have to measure:
Ruger made some Single Sixes in .32 H&R Mag that are smaller all over than Blackhawks.
Uberti makes SAA clones with the grip of a Lightning that I know several CAS Cowgirls to shoot. They have one small frame gun that is even littler.
http://www.emf-company.com/1873-stallion-single-action-revolvers.htm

Sig-Sauer P239; a single stack auto that is one of the few guns on the market that feels too small for my rather small guy hands.

461 is right, of course, but some measurements will let you and her know where to start.
 
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Springfield EMP sounds like a good bet. Don't have one on hand (wish I did!), but have a friend who owns one and can ask her to measure if no one else pipes up here after awhile. Remember that with any 1911 type you can get a custom trigger job to make the trigger even shorter to reach.

Melting the Glock grip for an overall grip reduction can make a world of difference, too. Dane Burns, at Burns' Custom, does a nice-looking grip reduction; you might be able to get someone at that shop to measure one for you if that interests you.

Remember that almost everything you measure or she tries on can be customized in some way or another to make it more fit for small hands. If a gun is just a little too big "as is," and is otherwise pleasing, it's time to ask what alterations could be done to it to make it perfect.

pax
 
The proper grip would be with the backstrap in the web of the thumb. I have short fingers and need to wrap more of my hand around Glocks, Berettas, and other double row magazine handguns to reach the trigger. By wrapping my hand around I shoot a Glock 21 (45ACP) well. Your wife will find something that works for her. Have her try wrapping more of her hand around the grip to reach the trigger.

As long as it's safe who cares what technique you use.
 
Im in the same boat as you. So far the only thing I found that the missus can hold and shoot right is a Raven 25. So when you find a good 9one pass the info on please.




one shot one kill
 
The EMP measures 6 1/4 inches with the silly long trigger that the factory sends them out with.

If you have a short trigger fitted, it should be right around 6".

Good luck in your quest.
 
A few ideas

Find a place with a large selection of revolver grips and pull the K frame back out. Grips of more differnt sizes, styles, and materials have been made for the K/L S&Ws than probably any other gun. Older magnas, magnas with a Tyler T or (no longer made) Pachmayr grip gapper, and "boot grips" are a good place to start.

The Springfield EMP, as well as STI's LS9 (talk to Correia about these) look like good ideas. I don't know about the P32, but the Kel-Tec P3AT has a much shorter trigger than the P-11. The new single stack PF-9's trigger is based off the P3AT's.

On a standard 1911 you might look into a short trigger, flat mainspring housing, and the ultraslim grips that require new slim bushings.

If I was at home I'd try a few different grips on my K's and let you know, but I'm deployed. Sorry I can't help more.
 
How about an STI LS9

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/ls/ls.html
LSweb_800w.jpg


Look a a 642 with a set of Magnas and a T grip
 
if a P32 is too big... I dunno.

Have you considered a derringer? There are many out there in .45LC, and then there's the NAA Mini-Mags/Black Widow, though .22WMR isn't exactly a "big" round...

You may have to compromise on firepower to get something that actually fits her hands if they're that small. The NAAs are pretyt much the smallest I can think of.
 
Jim Watson, we've got a Colt 1903 hammerless that's also too big for her. Sorry. And I should be clear that she tried a S&W J-frame (Model 642, etc) with NO grips on it at all, and it was well too large for her.And the SIG P239? That thing is FAT, it feels bulky in my hand, bulkier than my Glock 19.

uaarguy, the J-frame with no frame is too large, the K-frame is waaaaaaaaay out of the question. The Kel-Tec P32 that she owns (it's pink) is too large for her due to the long double action trigger. She can't reach the trigger at all with a proper firing grip.

Thanks for the suggestions, we're open to any more suggestions!
 
And I should be clear that she tried a S&W J-frame (Model 642, etc) with NO grips on it at all, and it was well too large for her.
Click to expand...

TNP, the gap between the frame and trigger guard of S&W revolvers is quite large and my hand rides up into it. With magnas only the reach on a K frame is way too long for my short fingers. With magnas and a T grip type device installed the K frames are very comfortable for me. It's a quirk of the S&Ws but just try it, trust me. A slim boot grip alone will act in much the same way. Hope that helps.
 
Try out some of the Taurus pistols (such as the PT145 and PT111). They've got a good feel for both me (measured at 4.5") and my wife (3").
 
S&W 3913: just under 6"

I have much the same problem as your wife (web of hand to 2nd knuckle is right at 3"), and after much buying and selling of guns to get a good fit, I've found that the P3AT, Kahr P9, S&W 3913, 1911s (VZ Ultra Slims, short trigger, flat MSH, and grip safety sans speed bump), and J-frames with slim boot grips are optimum for me. K/L frames are on the edge of comfort when used with slim boot grips.

I'd try to find a 3913 for her to try out. To my hands, they're significantly slimmer than the P239, and a much better fit.
 
I had the same problem with my Fiance'.

Solution: Walther. Either the PPK or the P22.
 
 
We tried both the Beretta Bobcat and Tomcat, as well as the Walther P22. All too big.

We did just pick up an Italian air force marked Beretta M1934 that she's really excited about. If that is reliable, it'll be her new carry gun until we can find a major caliber piece, which we're still looking for.


Can anybody measure a Glock 36 for us?

Thanks to everyone so far!
 
Wow, she does have small hands. The P22 fits my 8 year old son just fine. I guess I won't ever complain about my small hands again.
 
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