I have recently purchased a SA Loaded Champion SS. I would like to start carrying this right away so I can get used to it sooner than later. I have read before that it may take 500+ rounds of FMJ to break the gun in before it will feed JHP's reliably. Would you carry a .45 with FMJ's during the break in, or go with another gun that you could carry HP round and is this accurate about the break in period?
Breaking in 1911
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HM2PAC
Member
Break-in periods are for the shooter, not the gun. The gun should run right out of the box. You need to learn the weapon, and make your body/hand/mind familiar with it. If that takes you 100, 250, or 5,000 rounds, that's your break-in period. If the gun is exhibiting FTF, FTE, FTRB problems, wasting ammo will not make the problems stop.
In .45ACP I feel fine with quality FMJ for carry ammo. Your SA should handle HP's just fine though. Try them out.
In short, shoot it a lot and get to know your weapon before you have to rely on it.
In .45ACP I feel fine with quality FMJ for carry ammo. Your SA should handle HP's just fine though. Try them out.
In short, shoot it a lot and get to know your weapon before you have to rely on it.
Black Majik
Member
Clean and lube the gun prior to the range trip. Shoot 500 rounds. Clean and lube for next range trip.
I personally would not carry a gun until I knew it functions as it's suppose to. I'd wait until the gun ran through the 500 rounds "break-in", or shot perfectly for those 500 rounds before I'd trust it.
I personally would not carry a gun until I knew it functions as it's suppose to. I'd wait until the gun ran through the 500 rounds "break-in", or shot perfectly for those 500 rounds before I'd trust it.
There are 1911's that require a break in period, but they are more along the lines of Les Baer and other customs and semi-customs that are built to extremely tight tolerances. Your Springer should not require such. You do need to run a minimum of 200 rounds of whatever ammo you are going to carry through the gun to insure reliability and verify POI as it compares to POA.
loboloco
Member
VHinch-
what about a Taurus PT1911?
what about a Taurus PT1911?
Yes and no. Most mass produced guns do not need a break-in due to the machining being a little "loose". No less quality, just the clearances are machined to allow the gun to run right out of the box. Customs are totally different animals. The tolerances on my custom 1911 are so tight that the slide needs to be "shot-in" so to speak. After about 500rds things are running like a top. I would not trust a firearm unless I know it will function each and everytime. The only way to prove that to me it to shoot it.
I strongly disagree with this.
Commercially-made guns have no more then 2-5 rounds put thru them to "proof" them and then they're thrown into a box for shipment. You are going to trust your life on that?
Put a few hundred rounds thru it in order to make sure that everything functions and that nothing will break.
WinchesterAA
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FMJs will kill pretty much anything on 2 legs or four.. Pretty much all I shoot and hunt with, and don't have any complaints.
No. Colt, Kimber, Springfield, Sig, Taurus, etc., are all production guns, as in "off the shelf", and are all machined to fairly loose tolerances. Les Baer, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, etc are your custom and semi custom guns, and are machined to much tighter tolerances. My Baer TRS was so tight that I didn't even take it down to clean it for the first 600-700 rounds, and it was probably 1500 rounds before it had loosened up significantly.
Agreed. This however, is reliability testing, not breaking the gun in. Breaking the gun in has more to do with wearing the parts together as they should be.
HM2PAC
Member
CWL wrote:
Read the rest of my post. I said to shoot it a lot. No disrespect meant, but I didn't stop there.
My point is that a gun that doesn't work properly out of the box will only waste ammo. Sure I've had guns that had a FTF or 2 in the 1st 500 rds, and then got ironed out. I've also had guns that couldn't get through an entire magazine. More ammo did not help.
I will standby my insistence that the shooter know his/her weapon. Know how to clear the occasional fail, and get back into the fight.
Read the rest of my post. I said to shoot it a lot. No disrespect meant, but I didn't stop there.
My point is that a gun that doesn't work properly out of the box will only waste ammo. Sure I've had guns that had a FTF or 2 in the 1st 500 rds, and then got ironed out. I've also had guns that couldn't get through an entire magazine. More ammo did not help.
I will standby my insistence that the shooter know his/her weapon. Know how to clear the occasional fail, and get back into the fight.
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
"The gun will need X number of rounds through it befre it will function reliably."
Sheepdip.
Loosely translated, it means:
"Oh...Go play with your toy and stop bothering me."
Here's the straight skinny. This applies to any Who-Hit-John ordnance-spec pistol...enhanced model, and all the way up to a 4,000-dollar custom.
If the gun is built correctly, it'll run. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.
Sheepdip.
Loosely translated, it means:
"Oh...Go play with your toy and stop bothering me."
Here's the straight skinny. This applies to any Who-Hit-John ordnance-spec pistol...enhanced model, and all the way up to a 4,000-dollar custom.
If the gun is built correctly, it'll run. It's a machine. It doesn't have a choice.
XavierBreath
Member
This should read :"The gun will need X number of rounds through it before it is trusted to function reliably."
Obviously, if the pistol just shot 500 consecutive trouble free rounds, it was reliable. Now....can it be reasonably predicted that the pistol will remain reliable? Past performance is an indicator of future performance, but it is not an absolute predictor.
If your round count for carry is 500, 1000 or 50, after you shoot that amount, detail strip the pistol and inspect it dirty, looking for wear patterns. Gunpowder residue can tell you a lot if you let it. Then clean each part and inspect each part while cleaning, looking for cracks, etc. Finally, reassemble the pistol and shoot it some more, trying any way you can to get it to jam. Ride your thumb. Shoot it sideways. Upside down.
Even then, you can not 100% guarantee it will fire on the next trigger pull. The odds however, are in your favor. Remember, past performance is not an an absolute predictor of future performance. Machines fail unpredictably every day.
FWIW, many machines with very close tolerances are designed to have a break-in period, where metal parts polish each other to a final fit in a bath of oil rather than rouge. This technique of finely fitting machine parts has been used on internal combustion engines of all types, clockwork, and other devices. Some gun makers have borrowed the technique and now use it on closely fitted firearms, namely the 1911. The real question is whether that is a good thing. Does it improve accuracy? Does it improve reliability? Does it improve durability? Those are aspects that will be debated for years and years, as long as the 1911 remains popular.
The fact is, gunsmiths from Jim Clark Sr. to Ted Yost have improved the accuracy of the 1911 by tightening the gun. Some gunsmiths have compromised reliability in doing the same thing. Some 1911 manufacturers recommend this break-in period on their guns. Others do not.
Those are the facts. Draw your own conclusions from them.
Zach S
Member
If your pistol is going to have issues with a certain part, the extractor and magazine being the most popular, it will have those issues within the first few hundred rounds if not before.
That's why there's a "break in period." To find out what the manufacturer did wrong.
That's why there's a "break in period." To find out what the manufacturer did wrong.
possum
Member
this isn't required but this is what i do to any gun that i am gonna use for defense or ccw. i run 500rds through it, normally in a single range trip. also taking a gun to a high round cout course is another way to see if the gun will run or not.
i then test out various jhp loads and see what works best. lube and clean when necessary.
i then test out various jhp loads and see what works best. lube and clean when necessary.
If you do the math, one can calculate the reliability of the gun at any degree of certainty one wishes. If you've fired it 500 times with the same ammo with no malfunctions, you can be 95% certain that your true malfunction rate is between 0 and 0.6%, with that system, assuming nothing changes.
Of course, things are always changing; you may shoot 500 trouble free rounds on a square range with a good grip and a locked up stance. If you then try shooting weak handed on the move with a lousy grip, you may find that your incidence of malfunctions increases. Consequently, shooting a carry gun in a couple of matches or in a multi-day class is part of my verification process.
As you shoot the gun, parts are wearing, so the system is continually changing. Breakages can occur randomly also.
1911 guy
Member
Once again, Tuner has my vote. If it's properly built, it will run.
johndoe1027
Member
Tuner is right (as always) but he also knows that some guns do not run right out of the box. Some may have a hiccup or two in the first few hundred rounds.
I agree with others that as you get tighter (and more expensive) the chance of early malfuncions increase. The loaded SA is in between a GI gun and a custom model IMO when talking about tolerances.
Also, I used to carry a 9x19 with HP's. Then I went to a 45acp with FMJ's. I have no worries about those 230 gr slugs taking care of me god forbid I ever need them. Pay attention that a super duper HP doesn't compromise penetration.
I agree with others that as you get tighter (and more expensive) the chance of early malfuncions increase. The loaded SA is in between a GI gun and a custom model IMO when talking about tolerances.
Also, I used to carry a 9x19 with HP's. Then I went to a 45acp with FMJ's. I have no worries about those 230 gr slugs taking care of me god forbid I ever need them. Pay attention that a super duper HP doesn't compromise penetration.
.44 magnuholic
Member
I'll just throw this out there for ****s and giggles
I've purchased 3 1911's in the last five years.
1. Springfield Armory Ultra Compact Loaded
2. Rock Island 1911 A1
3. Kimber Pro TLE II/LG
All three have jammed on me while at the range, with any assortment of ammo. TAP wouldn't run well in the Kimber, and I could get S&B ball to cycle reliably in the Rock Island. The SA Ultra compact was a complete joke. A $900 pistol that required 2 visits back to Springfield. :banghead:
So, being the level-headed individual I am, I sold off these pistols and bought myself a Glock and another Sig. Now when I pull the trigger, I actually feel safe knowing my guns going to shoot and cycle reliably. I have never been able to feel that with a 1911.
Now don't get me wrong. My grandpas old Colt 1911 shot great all the time, but it also had probably 25,000 rnds through it in it's 60 years. I don't have that kind of time, unfortunately.
I've purchased 3 1911's in the last five years.
1. Springfield Armory Ultra Compact Loaded
2. Rock Island 1911 A1
3. Kimber Pro TLE II/LG
All three have jammed on me while at the range, with any assortment of ammo. TAP wouldn't run well in the Kimber, and I could get S&B ball to cycle reliably in the Rock Island. The SA Ultra compact was a complete joke. A $900 pistol that required 2 visits back to Springfield. :banghead:
So, being the level-headed individual I am, I sold off these pistols and bought myself a Glock and another Sig. Now when I pull the trigger, I actually feel safe knowing my guns going to shoot and cycle reliably. I have never been able to feel that with a 1911.
Now don't get me wrong. My grandpas old Colt 1911 shot great all the time, but it also had probably 25,000 rnds through it in it's 60 years. I don't have that kind of time, unfortunately.
Tuner was dead right. You should not have to run whatever number of rounds through a 1911 pattern pistol simply to confirm that it's reliable. That should be a given in the first place. Shooting to gain experience and skill is another matter.
Ask yourself a couple of questions:
Did Uncle Sam have to test fire each and every 1911A1 pistol some 2 to 500 (or whatever) rounds before they could be issued? If not, why not?
Why is it that the pages of this and other forums are filled with complaints about how current 1911 style pistols aren't working, while you almost never see any negative posts about older (pre-1965) production?
Ask yourself a couple of questions:
Did Uncle Sam have to test fire each and every 1911A1 pistol some 2 to 500 (or whatever) rounds before they could be issued? If not, why not?
Why is it that the pages of this and other forums are filled with complaints about how current 1911 style pistols aren't working, while you almost never see any negative posts about older (pre-1965) production?
.44 magnuholic
Member
Yep, I agree. However, this design, atleast imho requires work in order to correctly feed JHP. I mean, like a feedramp polish or something of that nature. I just don't trust em enough out of the box.
I don't trust a made in America Kimber pistol specifically designed for carry and self defense with JHPs. That's sad.
I don't trust a made in America Kimber pistol specifically designed for carry and self defense with JHPs. That's sad.
boomstik45
Member
As others have stated, anything man-made is bound to malfunction at some point. You must be ready to deal with the situation. The idea of an eternally reliable weapon is a preposterous one, if you ask me. Any number of factors can cause malfunction: one part, a magazine, a bad round, etc.
Familiarize yourself with a weapon and decide if it has enough good characteristics to be something you can use reliably. Familiarize yourself with whatever it takes to clear malfunctions, and whether or not the process is easy or difficult. If it's difficult, then perhaps the weapon is not a keeper for certain purposes. Also consider whether extra parts are readily available...stock up on them if they are. Buy the magazines that work the best with the weapon. Buy the ammo that works the best in the weapon. If you like the weapon, learn all you can about it.
Familiarize yourself with a weapon and decide if it has enough good characteristics to be something you can use reliably. Familiarize yourself with whatever it takes to clear malfunctions, and whether or not the process is easy or difficult. If it's difficult, then perhaps the weapon is not a keeper for certain purposes. Also consider whether extra parts are readily available...stock up on them if they are. Buy the magazines that work the best with the weapon. Buy the ammo that works the best in the weapon. If you like the weapon, learn all you can about it.
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