Bringing Handguns with me into California

[Evergreen]

I was considering taking a trip to California to see my very, very old and aging grandmother and to accompany my parents on their trip. I have been reluctant to cross the border south to the Golden state, due to its draconian laws. However, I am starting to feel the desire to go and see some relatives and was wanting to know of some of the laws.

I know California doesn't allow non-approved guns, so I am not sure if mine are acceptable. I do own a few revolvers, that I was considering bringing with me. I know I also cannot carry a loaded weapon there, as my Oregon and Washington's CCWs are not recognized there.

What I would like to know is what are the best means for defense when I am travelling and what can I bring. Is it legal to carry bear pepper spray or any pepper spray on my person when walking around urban areas?

Here are a list of guns I was considering bringing, but I like to confirm that they are legal to bring to California:
1. S&W M&P 45, 10rd magazines. No safeties. No magazine lock, No Internal Lock. I am feeling this gun may not CA legal, due to lack of safeties. However, it has 10rd capacity.

2. S&W 629 revolver. This is my 6-shot .44 mag revolver. I will most likely load it with 44 spls for my CA travels. No internal lock, pre-internal lock model.

3. S&W 460 revolver. This gun is a beast, but I do have a nice holster for it and would load it with defensive Gold Dot 45LC HP loads. This is a 5-round revolver. Internal Lock

4. S&W 442 - This is my snubnose. Its .38spl with 5 rounds. This is my pocket carry gun. I know in Cali I won't have the luxury to pocket carry. But, it's another gun I am thinking I can bring. Internal lock


Can anyone tell me what they think of the legality of bringing the guns that I mentioned?

Am I allowed to have a loaded gun in my hotel room or staying at a guest's house?

Is it illegal to carry a gun in a locked case and a loaded magazine/loaded speed loader in the same vehicle?

I was thinking if worse case scenario, I need to defend myself, I would have lot easier time of opening up a locked case and putting in a loaded mag or speed lodaer. I'm assuming CA does not allow loaded magazines or speed loaders for people without permits. But, I would like a confirmation about that.


Once again, can I legally carry bear pepper spray with me? I also have a small can of human pepper spray, that has a mix of Tear Gas/Pepper Spray. Would this be legal for urban carry in California?

 

[Librarian]

Similar very recent thread here : http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602965

I know California doesn't allow non-approved guns, so I am not sure if mine are acceptable.

The California handgun Roster governs some sales, it has nothing to do with visiting or moving to the state.

Am I allowed to have a loaded gun in my hotel room or staying at a guest's house?

Yes.

Is it illegal to carry a gun in a locked case and a loaded magazine/loaded speed loader in the same vehicle?

Yes - in the same case if you like. Just no ammunition actually in the gun. Loaded magazines and speed loaders are fine, so long as not in the gun.

Please read the FAQ section of the Calguns Foundation Wiki.

 

[Evergreen]

Thanks Librarian for the link.. From my research, it appears that my S&W M&P 45 is NOT legal to bring with me in California, because it lacks the magazine safety. What a bummer, but I think I will have to leave my semi autos home. It seems like the only gun I should risk taking is my S&W 629. I also have a S&W 460v, but I cannot risk the cops taking my $1200 gun. I hear California cops can seize your gun for search, inspection, etc. Maybe, this isn't common but I don't want to risk it. I would probably load my 629 with 44spls or light magnum loads.

I'd probably also bring my S&W 442 to, as it appears to be on the approved list to.

Gosh, looking at California gun laws it makes me so happy I don't live there.. What a headache.. I just wish we could have California weather in Oregon.

Glad to know I can keep my speed loaders loaded and next to my gun. I guess if I needed, I could access my firearm. Not as convenient as reaching in the glove box.

 

[danez71]

From my research, it appears that my S&W M&P 45 is NOT legal to bring with me in California, because it lacks the magazine safety

Its ok to bring into CA..... but its not on the safe gun roster which means it would not be legal to buy in CA.

 

[oneounceload]

but I cannot risk the cops taking my $1200 gun. I hear California cops can seize your gun for search, inspection, etc.

What do you envision yourself doing to warrant such action from police? They don't stand on the corner frisking people or asking you for your "papers" (at least not yet)

 

[NavyLCDR]

Thanks Librarian for the link.. From my research, it appears that my S&W M&P 45 is NOT legal to bring with me in California, because it lacks the magazine safety. What a bummer, but I think I will have to leave my semi autos home.

Did you READ what Librarian posted, or just click on links? California's safe handgun roster/list ONLY APPLIES TO SALES IN CALIFORNIA!

California's safe handgun roster/list DOES NOT APPLY to people who bring those guns into California from outside the state either as tourists or when they move into California from another state.

Possession of magazines over 10 rounds capacity is illegal, in most cases, in California.

Did you know that it is easier for a tourist to transport a handgun in California than it is to transport a handgun in Ohio without a recognized license/permit?

 

[Evergreen]

Wow, thanks for all this information. Well, I reviewed various pages, but didn't quite understand all the various legal jargon. But, I am very happy to hear I can bring my M&P with me there. I apologize to all those who think I am naive or overly worried, but I've lived in Oregon too long and I am not use to all the rules and terminology, like "safe guns". What I am wondering if I just happened to use one of these non-safe guns in a defensive shooting in California, if I would get myself into any trouble? I don't quite get why I can possess a "non-safe" gun, but cannot buy one. These are the type of things that drive me nuts about CA laws.


I don't know much about Ohio gun laws. I am a bit shocked, considering that I thought almost any firearm was legal in Ohio. So, I suppose in Ohio you need permits to even own a handgun? That is scary.. Upper Midwest and Northeast states have proven to be the most anti-gun it seems. Glad WI residents received their rights to carry again.

What do you envision yourself doing to warrant such action from police? They don't stand on the corner frisking people or asking you for your "papers" (at least not yet)

I don't know. You have to realize it's been like over 12 years since I crossed the CA border. I just don't know how things are there, but I hear all types of scary stories of mean police who follow their own rules. Isn't there a book called "How to own a gun in California and stay out of jail?" Sorry, if I am being ignorant, but I just don't quite know what to expect in California.

Anyway, if it is legal to bring my S&W M&P 45 with me and use it in a defensive situation in California, then I have no problems. I would not need to bring my revolvers then. I would just carry mags on me and leave the gun locked in a case in the backseat. Or, if it needs be in the trunk, I can leave it there. Someone mentioned that as long as the gun is not accessible to me, that is alright? Or, does it need to be placed in trunk or back compartment of the vehicle?

Anyone else here, think they can answer my questions about pepper spray laws there?

P.S. I apologize for calling it Kaliforniastan in the title.. Us more right-wing Oregonians don't have the greatest view of our southern neighbor.

 

[Jon_Snow]

Evergreen, your M&P would be fine in a defensive shoot. The 'safe handgun' roster is a stupid piece of legislation, but it doesn't prevent anyone from possessing anything, just from buying it from a dealer. As far as transporting it goes, a locked case can be anywhere in your car. If you don't have a locked case, you can use your trunk as one assuming it meet certain criteria. Sounds like you do though, so backseat, or even frontseat, is fine. I'm not as up to date on the pepper spray laws, but I think you're ok to carry it. I do know that things like the Kimber Pepper Blaster, which uses an explosive charge to propel the OC, is NOT legal to carry here. It's unfortunate because those things are far superior to regular pepper spray.

For anyone who's interested, the book "How to Own a Gun and Stay Out of Jail-California" is a great summary of the Ca and Federal gun laws written in layman's terms. I bougth a copy before buying my first gun and I've since loaned and given several copies to friend who were interested in buy for themselves. Almost all of them are now voting gun owners.

 

[Librarian]

Generally speaking, if a self defense encounter is a 'good shoot', the handgun used will not be a criminal issue. As always, if it winds up in civil court as well, all bets are off.

Unloaded gun in a locked case, in back seat, would be fine. That's all CA expects; if it were me I would keep the magazines in that same case, but carrying the mags on you would be legal.

You really don't want to get into the Roster stuff. Really. You don't. It will make your brain hurt. There is a long article at the wiki if you can't help yourself - but I warned you.

Pepper spray is included in 'tear gas' for CA. Legal if one is an adult and has never been convicted of a felony, with this restriction

(e) (1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas
weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any
method other than an aerosol spray, or that contains more than 2.5
ounces net weight of aerosol spray.

PC 12403.7

(And congratulations, NavyLCDR!)

 

[Zoogster]

Evergreen said:

Someone mentioned that as long as the gun is not accessible to me, that is alright? Or, does it need to be placed in trunk or back compartment of the vehicle?

There is nothing in the law like that, but many think similar things in error.

What the law says is that a pistol needs to be in either a locked container, or in a fully enclosed trunk which counts as a locked container.
This means in a locked container it can be anywhere in the vehicle.
In your lap, sitting next to you, anywhere you wanted in a locked container is okay.

It must be unloaded in that locked container though. You can have loaded detachable magazines (under 10 round capacity) and store them anywhere, including inside the locked container with the handgun, or outside of it anywhere you want.
(This is an exemption to PC12025, which is a prohibition on concealed handguns, as well as an exemption to another law, the California Gun Free School Zone law.)


Long guns are even less restricted, if they are not "assault weapons". They can be anywhere in the vehicle, no locking container required.


The confusion comes from police who often deal with a separate legal definition of what constitutes a violation of the law for people who are committing other crimes, and as a result repeat that definition for everyone, even though it only applies to criminals breaking other laws.

Anyone else here, think they can answer my questions about pepper spray laws there?

Pepper spray is legal, but there is state laws on size. Bear spray would generally not be legal to carry walking in an urban environment for defense against people, because the size is too large.

California law limits pepper spray to 2.5 ounce containers or less. This means even the standard 3-5 ounce size police and mail carriers use is prohibited for a puny civilian in the state to carry.

The small pepper sprays that are legal are typically adjusted to make the smaller quantity last longer, which in turn means it has a thinner stream. Personally I think this makes most of the legal sprays less effective, because it takes a couple seconds to deliver a decent quantity on target, which is more time than you will be given if someone is actually attacking you.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I don't know much about Ohio gun laws. I am a bit shocked, considering that I thought almost any firearm was legal in Ohio.

Again, it's got nothing to do with which guns are legal or not. You seem very fixated on that.

In California, your unloaded gun has to be in a locked case, but the loaded magazine can be right next to the gun in the same case.

In Ohio, without a permit, the unloaded gun has to be in a closed case (not needed to be locked, but closed with a fastener), however, it would be illegal to have any loaded magazines anywhere in the same vehicle as the gun.

So, a gun transported in California in a quick-open combo lock safe would actually be easier to use for self defense in California, than a gun being transported in Ohio where you would have to stop to load rounds into the magazine.

 

[oneounceload]

In short, there is no reason to be and act as paranoid as you seem to want to.......You are not going to get stripped searched at the border gas station, and unless you are wont to break the law, you will go unnoticed by law enforcement while on your trip

 

[Jon_Snow]

What the law says is that a pistol needs to be in either a locked container, or in a fully enclosed trunk which counts as a locked container.

You have to be careful about the trunk though, as a trunk is defined as being inaccessible from the passenger compartment. That means that if you drive a hatchback, like me, or similar car where you could fold the rear seats down you don't have a trunk for the purpose of this law. It's just a baggage compartment, like an oversized glove box. It would be illegal for me to toss a handgun in my trunk because of the contruction of my car.

(PS. Before you ask, glove boxes are specifically called out as NOT counting as locked containers, even if they do lock, so don't toss a handgun in your glove box.)

 

[Zoogster]

NavyLCDR said:

So, a gun transported in California in a quick-open combo lock safe would actually be easier to use for self defense in California, than a gun being transported in Ohio where you would have to stop to load rounds into the magazine.

In reality though either is impractical. The gun laws as such make the gun available more for offensive use than reactive defensive use. A criminal targeting the person transporting the firearm that warrants self defense and who the occupant cannot merely drive away from is either yanking the person out of the car, or is holding a gun on them, or using some other weapon. None of which make opening a case, loading a gun, racking the slide on a semi-auto, and finally opening fire, a very practical solution, even if the case and magazine are in your lap at the start.

This means the only legal likely use for the firearm is for use at various destinations, or in the case of coming to the aid of someone else where the person transporting the gun will actually have the opportunity to go through the steps to load their gun without getting shot while attempting to do so.



In fact under the law a long gun is more practical for potential though still unlikely self defense. As a long gun does not need to be in a locked case, and only must be unloaded. So the step of unlocking the case and removing the firearm is gone.
But even then the remaining steps of loading and putting a round in the chamber to defend against a threat you cannot simply drive away from takes too long.
If they are yanking you out, just smashed the window and are attacking you with a weapon, or are holding you at gunpoint, the likely scenarios where you could not just drive away but would be justified in use of lethal force, it does not leave the use of two free hands while you remain next to the firearm and ammo to do go through the motions without getting hurt or killed.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are absolutely correct, Zoogster. Gun control is designed to only disarm law abiding citizens who would otherwise be able to defend themselves against the criminals that aren't going to obey the laws anyway.

Gun control laws have very deep roots in political corruption (Tim Sullivan, New York, 1911) and racism.

 

[Evergreen]

There's only one comment I want to make Navy, about Ohio's gun laws. Even though, Ohio's gun laws are bad if you do not have any permit, I am seeing that a Utah CCW is recognized by Ohio, which would make me think that you can transport and conceal any loaded handgun you wish in the state. Now, California doesn't recognize any other state's permits, even I hear people with California permits have their share of trouble if stopped. So, I am thinking comparing Ohio to California is not entirely fair, considering how easy it is to acquire a Utah CCW. I just realized even my non-resident WA CCW permit is valid in Ohio, which means I can go through the state of Ohio tomorrow with concealed and loaded handguns, whereas in California, I would be arrested. IMO, there is no rationalizing California's gun laws. Considering how many permits Ohio recognizes, I think I have more respect for Ohio's gun laws in general than many other states, including California. Anyhow, glad it is still better than New Jersey. I heard a guy was serving a long time for transporting a gun through that state, cased and all.

 

[Art Eatman]

Looks like the original question has been answered...