Britain and guns

Status
Not open for further replies.
No, but I gave it a shot. It's funny, for such a Christian country, a lot of people do a good impression of not being very Christian (like seeing other people's point of view - you don't have to agree to understand).
So whats wrong, you don't like Kumbaya? :neener:
 
Europe has a long tradition of feudalism, aristocracy and serfdom. Only the true blooded nobility should be allowed to bear arms. Let them carry on with what they know best.

The US however was born literally from rifles in the hands of commoners. Rebecca peters should shrivel up and die under some rock in Europe, and hopefully take soros, brady, and feinstein with her.
 
chorlton: I avoided using stereotypes when I came here, and I just expect the same from others.
Click to expand...
Actually, your entire point is based on a stereotype -- that Americans don't understand how other cultures can be different. Otherwise, why try to educate us about the differences? That stereotype is just as tedious to us as the stereotype of Brits as whiny, gun-fearing, socialist wimps (with bad teeth).

There are some valid points being made here on both sides. Too bad they are getting lost in the egos and combativeness.

So far, IMO, the most important point floating around is that it's odd for the people in a democracy to absolve themselves of responsibility for their government's policies. That attitude belongs in a monarchy. Mayhap it's a cultural vestige. ;)
 
Boofus, you're right. Things have gone too far in the UK for it to turn back.
The US is very different and guns are here to stay, and rightly so.

Scandinavian - :D the character or the place? The reactions were right. You know how you have stuff like "mothers against guns"? Well we have more of them than free thinking individuals sometimes. I dont think that I should not be allowed to havea gun just because someone shoots up a school - was the gun responsible? :rolleyes:

The other guy - the "stereotype" was just what I've heard over and over again in the US. I try not to assume we're all the same, but its hard when its all you get.
 
I apologise if I took a couple of comments too seriously. I just wanted to make a point, and I guess that turned out to be that its good to remember that people are all different, no matter what country they came from. I avoided using stereotypes when I came here, and I just expect the same from others.
Click to expand...

Apology accepted.

Yes, people are "all different" but as you gently wend your way through life you realize just how similar most people are to a few distinct types.
And the more they go out of their way to protest their individuality the more they conform to a type.

I have met thousands, maybe more, of English people in all kinds of interaction and a similar amount of Americans, and the tendency is for the US citizens to be further to the "right" (for want of a better term) than the UK citizens.
Also UK citizens "as a rule" have a love/hate relationship with the US and many believe the spin that the English press gives to all things American.
To deny that as some "stereotype" is to be, at least, unobservant and at worst disingenuous.

When a newby, and a self-proclaimed Englishman to boot, starts behaving in what, to me, are predictable ways it is my rule to call him out.
This isn't stereotyping. This is the use of my keenly honed observational skills (and the fact that you stereotyped yourself) :)

Maybe I was a little harsh, but when I hear or read an "English accent", I take special notice.

I think most of the premises of your original post are false, for one reason or another, and I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't simply a troll.

I hope you enjoy your time here and find it interesting and informative.

G
 
PS.

From what you have been writing since we all are "just getting along" you and I probably have more in common than we would both have thought.

IMHO you should look into the historical transition, through the 20th century, of the UK from tough, self-determining individualism to diapered (that would be nappied to you) dependence.

Yes I overstate the case, and no it isn't France or Germany, but take a step back and think about it :)

G
 
No troll, I promise.
I guess I can be kinda lefty. I want everyone to live and let live, but i take great exception when someone tries to take advantage (hence the CHL aspirations). Anyway, thats just a bit about me. Yeah, I do try hard to retain my individuality. Free speech and free thought are among my most treasured posessions.
On the subject of my first post, I guess everyone has a version of the truth :(
 
chorlton: The other guy - the "stereotype" was just what I've heard over and over again in the US.
Click to expand...
I suspect that you are focusing on the evidence that supports your prejudice of Americans as wearing cultural blinders. It's an easy trap to fall into. But look for evidence to the contrary, and you'll find it too. Amazingly (gasp), we Americans understand other cultures as well as other cultures understand us.

And by the way, you also might be confusing our dislike of certain differences with our failure to understand them. But it's a common mistake to think that disapproval = lack of understanding = naivety.

But (turning the coin over) that also would mean your disapproval of our disapproval = your lack of understanding = your naivety. ;)
 
Everyone I've spoken to in person really did not understand until I spelled it out to them and every one of them did a good job of fitting the "stereotype". I dont mind if you dont like it, so long as you understand. Since you do, thats fine :D
 
I didnt suggest guns are useless in self defense, only that in my experience in th UK for 25 years I never felt the need to carry so much as a stick. Of course guns are useful for defense, thats why I'm getting a CHL
Click to expand...


OK, I don't understand the above statement. You have never felt the need to carry as much as a stick but you are getting a CHL? Maybe CHL is a different abbreviation across the pond than here. Concealed Handgun License?
If that is the meaning, there seems to be a contradiction there. You don't feel you need protection, but you feel you need protection. :uhoh:
I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm trying to understand.

A while back, there was a news story in the US, that an elderly English farmer, that had been burglarized before(twice I think), was awakened in the night by a sound inside his home. He grabbed his shotgun, and discovered a burglar with a crowbar, when the burglar approached him, and raised the bar to strike, the farmer shot and killed the burglar.
The last I heard the farmer, was convicted and sentenced to life in prison.
Has there been any further news on this case?
It seems to be a clear cut case of self defense.
 
chorlton: Everyone I've spoken to in person really did not understand until I spelled it out to them and every one of them did a good job of fitting the "stereotype".
Click to expand...
Well, we must travel in very different crowds. In any event, I still suspect that you are confusing disapproval with lack of understanding, while selectively focusing on the evidence that supports your prejudices.

Hopefully, you'll lose a bit of your cultural blinders because of this thread. Hopefully, you'll be disabused of this sterotype about Americans that you've constructed.
 
mkay

oh, Acorn - just saw your post. I meant that in the UK i didnt feel the need for protection. Here, I do, and so I intend to exercise my new rights.
The farmer is Tony Martin. He shot at 2 burglars whilst inside his isolated farmhouse, killing one and injuring the other. It is indeed a clear case of self defense, but under English law it was not justified since the burglars were not in the act of threatening him with a gun. The defensive force must be the same as the attacker's, IIRC. ANyway, he went to prison for a few years but he is out now and I think he ran for MP. There was a huge outcry when he was convicted and it prompted the government to clarify self defence laws (but not improve them).
 
No dude, I disagree, and I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you.
 
chorlton: No dude, I disagree
Click to expand...
Exactly, you're in denial about your prejudice about Americans needing to lose their cultural blinders.

Funny how you come here to educate us about our prejudices (without any evidence that we hold them other than your anecdotal experiences with other people). But when I point out the prejudices you exhibit within this very thread, you call it a "___ing contest."

Do you Brits use the phrase "can dish it out, but can't take it"?
 
chorlton: Lets agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
That's a funny comment to hear from someone who started a thread based on his unwillingness to agree to disagree. You obviously have a problem with Americans' disagreement with your nation's gun attitude -- and you came here to educate us.

If your attitude really were "agree to disagree" you never would have started the thread. Actually, what you are trying to say is, "Can't we agree to discuss only your faults, not mine?"

I'm always amused at someone who's willing to point out others' flaws, but then protests when they respond in kind. Making "lay off the coffee" comments about my doing the same thing as you is humorous.
 
Jeeze, let me paraphrase the original post to try and clarify the issues. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Chorlton's thesis seemed to be that not all Brits are anti-gun and might wish not to be lumped together with the ones that are in the perception of Americans. He then tries to share his opinion of how Britain got philosophically to where it is today, which is an ideology that he implied he doesn't completely agree with but feels is not necessarily something to be ashamed of.

This was taken by many readers to be an attack on America for reasons that I can't fathom, and led to much chest puffing and spitting, and, it appears to me, displays of just the sort of prejudice that the original post argued against.

The High Road? Sheesh

Nonq
 
This was taken by many readers to be an attack on America for reasons that I can't fathom
Click to expand...
As I wrote in my opening post, "There are some valid points being made here on both sides. Too bad they are getting lost in the egos and combativeness."

Chorlton was doing fine until he started writing things like, "Obviously it was too much to expect to think that some people would be able to think about other cultures and try to understand."

At that point, he showed the prejudice behind his post. He's got a valid point that some Americans are prejudiced about the Brits and guns. But he's got his own prejudices, and he refuses to acknowledge them.

His prejudices are just as much to blame in the cultural misunderstanding as are ours.

Cultural understanding is a two way conversation. Chorlton wants it to be only one way. He wants to point out Americans' cultural ignorance (I've no problem with that), but he refuses to consider his own.
 
Nonquixote, thankyou for your support. I thought maybe I was writing in a foreign language. I really appreciate you sticking your neck out for me ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

george29
  • Locked
Britain was once Great Britain
Replies
0
Views
412
george29
george29
P
  • Locked
Britain's gun problems are caused by the Irish?
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
gunsmith
G
D
  • Locked
(Britain) Shooters seek handgun law change
Replies
13
Views
942
Mk VII
M
W
  • Locked
Why Britain Needs More Guns
Replies
0
Views
329
WonderNine
W
2
  • Locked
Why Britain needs more guns
Replies
1
Views
740
Blackhawk
B
Back
Top