Britain: Don't bother about burglary, police told

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http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/ma...12/ixnewstop.html/news/2003/01/12/nburg12.xml

Don't bother about burglary, police told
By Daniel Foggo
(Filed: 12/01/2003)

Police have been ordered not to bother investigating
crimes such as burglary, vandalism and assaults unless evidence pointing to the culprits is easily available, The Telegraph can reveal.

Under new guidelines, officers have been informed that only "serious" crimes, such as murder, rape or so-called hate crimes, should be investigated as a matter of course.

In all other cases, unless there is immediate and compelling evidence, such as fingerprints or DNA material, the crime will be listed for no further action.

The new "crime screening" guidelines were quietly introduced in the Metropolitan Police area last month and similar measures are being brought into effect by forces across Britain as pressure grows on senior officers to maintain a tighter control over budgets.

A Met spokesman confirmed that "less serious crimes" would now only be investigated if they were considered to be "solvable using proportionate resources", or were part of a current crackdown on specific offences. He said: "It might mean that people who have had their bikes stolen from outside a shop might not get any investigation into it. It is looking at the high priorities for crime in the community."

The Met's policy document states that when crimes are of a less serious nature and there are no "special factors", such as a particularly vulnerable victim, they will now be logged but not solved.

Oliver Letwin, the shadow home secretary, said last night: "This news will be regarded as the final nail in the coffin of this Government's policy on crime. Instead of zero tolerance it seems we are to be faced with total tolerance."

The Home Office denied that it had originated the new policy. A spokesman said: "Crime screening is a matter for individual forces. We have made the investigation of burglaries a national priority and we are certainly not directing forces to avoid investigating them."
 
Once again the UK strikes a blow for the common criminal. Imagine being given carte blanche to commit "minor" crimes like Burglary with the knowledge that the Police will not investigate as long as there is no violence involved. Coupled with the inability of the English "SUBJECTS" to defend their property with any force, and it's no wonder crime is running rampant. Lets hear it for gun control!!!!
 
I wonder if we can empty our prisons and fly our felons over to England?
 
This can't be for real. They actually said that it it now policy NOT to investigate crimes? How is that legal?

I'm stunned.

- Gabe
 
wow, zero tolerance which makes a criminal out of everyone, the cops not going after many felons unless its an easy conviction, and good guys unable to defend themselves, they arn't even allowed to fight back if someone is strangling them to death, all they can legally do is die.

and all of that could have been avoided if they gave up thier rediculous gun control laws
 
Uh...

This is the defacto policy of most major police departments, everywhere. There is neither the manpower not money to do full investigations of minor offenses, or even major ones where there is no readily available evidence.

Burglary is a 'minor offense' in no-one's book, but if there is no physical evidence, no witnesses...theres nothing to do with that particular crime. Document it, move on. If a trend develops, something that you can possibly sit-up on, or if it starts to look like one of your usual suspects, thats great. But short of that...theres no investigation that can really be done.

Also, bike-theft deterred by CCW? Lets not overstate our case, guys.

Mike
 
they arn't even allowed to fight back if someone is strangling them to death, all they can legally do is die.
Ironically ... well put! That is about the name of the game ... fight back and you'll be arrested, or at very least have yer a$$ sued off by the criminal!!

All that and no means of legitimate self defence .. a person's right to protect themselves and their property is out the window. Staggering, pathetic .......... and in itself criminal.:rolleyes:
 
This is fantastic!!

The more crap that goes on in the United Kingdom the better it is for us here.

HS/LD
 
UK-Cops told to stop investigating burglaries

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2003020250,00.html

Invitation to burgle

COPS have been told to stop investigating burglaries and assaults unless they are sure of getting convictions.

New crime “screening†guidelines state that only murders, rapes and “hate†offences should be pursued as a matter of course.

All other cases are to be noted and listed for no further action unless there is overwhelming evidence of who did it.

They were issued without publicity to London’s Met Police last month but are expected to be brought in nationwide.

The move has infuriated former top cop Bob Taylor, 52, who hunted Yorkshire Ripper Peter Sutcliffe and caught killer and kidnapper Michael Sams and more than 50 other major villains.

Last week Britain’s top law chief said first-time burglars should not be jailed.

Mr Taylor, former head of operations of the National Crime Squad, was known as Mr 100 Per Cent for always getting his man.

He tells TIM SPANTON crime screening is a step too far.

By BOB TAYLOR
Ex National Crime Squad Chief

POLICE are being turned into little more than insurance company claims clerks who list crimes but do not investigate them.

We have been going down this road for a long time.

Soon people will be ringing the police to say: “I’ve been raped,’ and all that will happen is they will be sent a DIY kit in the post to fill in with their name and details.

Crime screening has been increasing for years.

It is wrong not to go to a home that has been burgled. There is so much evidence likely to be left at the scene.

And with the DNA database available now, it is much easier to get a match for a fingerprint or a blood sample.

Drugs are at the root of much property crime. Addicts burgle to finance their habits.

Saying that burglaries will not be investigated is an invitation to burgle houses. What a ridiculous signal to send out.

I was known as Mr 100 Per Cent but I doubt if I would get that title today with crime screening.

The Home Secretary recently boasted that we now have almost 130,000 policemen.

When I joined the force in 1970 there were 123,000. That is an increase of less than eight per cent.

But the workload in that time has increased by 1,000 per cent. We need more policemen.

If you are increasing the workload like that, something has to go.

If a garden gnome gets pinched from your front garden these days, tough — no one is interested.

Screening out burglaries from investigation is the thin end of the wedge. Whole groups of crime are being dismissed.

It is an insult for Lord Chancellor Derry Irvine to say the public is not bothered if burglars are not sent to prison. I don’t know what planet he’s on but it can’t be planet Earth.

Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime? That’s a strange way to show it.

People are very concerned about their property and it is burglars who affect people most.

Burglars are professional criminals while most murderers are not.

Murderers get the headlines but murders form a very small percentage of all criminal conduct.

The crime that touches people most is theft and burglary.

To have your home broken into and your savings stolen is devastating.

By screening out burglaries, the police are deserting the public.
 
some points:

i) not all crimes are solvable;

ii) in many cases there arent going to be witnesses, CCTV or forensic clues that point to the identity of the perp - these are the crimes that (as coronach points out) arent going to be "investigated" because theres no investigation to be done.
 
Who remembers the Monty Python sketch?:

*Man at door of apartment - rings bell*

Elderly woman: "Who is it?"
Man: "Burglar ma'am."
Elderly woman:"Come again?"
Man: "Burglar, ma'am."
Elderly woman:"What do you want?"
Man: "I just want to come in and steal a few things."
Elderly woman:"Are you sure you aren't selling encylopedias?"
Man: "Yes, ma'am. I just want to burgle the place."
Elderly woman:"You sound like an encyclopedia salesman."
Man:"No, ma'am. I can assure you of that."
Elderly woman:"Well, OK, but I don't want to buy any encyclopedias."
*Elderly woman opens door*
Man (with smile): "Have you considered the benefits of a fine set of encyclopedias?"
 
You guys gotta be kidding me:eek:
"in many cases there arent going to be witnesses, CCTV or forensic clues that point to the identity of the perp - these are the crimes that (as coronach points out) arent going to be "investigated" because theres no investigation to be done."
How about canvassing the local pawn shops to see if anyone has been trying to fence goods matching the stolen stuff? How about chatting with people in the neighborhoods and pubs to see if anyone has run their mouth bragging about a score? Heck, I'm not a cop and there are two places to start.
Has it really gotten so bad that the police are closing their eyes to 'minor' thefts? Isn't this reinforcing a terrible and escalatable behavior? :what:
 
This is the direct opposite of what is considered to be the most successful anti crime strategy, that being NYCs' broken windows program.


Coronach

This is the defacto policy of most major police departments, everywhere.

Yes, but I don't think they openly admit it as been done here. As Bob Taylor [re Airwolf's post] pointed out its an "invitation" to commit crime.

TFL Alum
 
apple,

Criminals (at least over here) rarely fence goods in pawn shops. more likely they sell them to a dealer, or someone in a crackhouse, or "the man in the pub". Goods do turn up in this way during the course of searches - but the new owner will hardly ever state who he got it off because he is de facto admitting to the offence of Handling (or recieving) Stolen Goods.
 
Don't miss the point:

Police have been ordered not to bother investigating
crimes such as burglary, vandalism and assaults unless evidence pointing to the culprits is easily available, The Telegraph can reveal.

and this...

Under new guidelines, officers have been informed that only "serious" crimes, such as murder, rape or so-called hate crimes, should be investigated as a matter of course.

Hate crime is the single most important thing a Bobby can occupy his time with. Its more important that anything else. And don't you forget it.



lapidator
 
I sent the article to a freind of mine in GB. Here's his reply:

_________________________________________________
I never said this place was perfect. In fact, one of the major issues for
most people here is that of crime. Hand gun crime is getting out of control,
the country is at a crossroads on whether to be more lenient on crime or
heavily tax the populus to build more prisions. You might have missed this
tidbit, one of the more outrageous situations here as far a burglary goes;
NO JAIL time for fisrt ( and sometimes second ) offense burglars. After
being found guilty they are given fines and community service. Fortunately,
almost all the outrageous things you might read about with this country,
take place down south in London. I'm up here in the hills of West Yorkshire
were our biggest problem is trying not to hit the sheep in the road as we
come through the hills to get to our house....
 
So, does running around with a toy gun robbing people fall under the "less serious crimes" of "burglary, vandalism and assaults" or under the "serious crimes" of "murder, rape or so-called hate crimes"?
 
Don't be too smug in mocking the Brits about this idiocy.

A few years ago, an FBI agent told me they had a "declination policy" whereby they didn't even bother investigating crimes where the cash amount stolen, embezzled etc., was less than $50k.

Skeptical, I asked around. Confirmed!

I don't know how widespread the policy was or if it still exists, but what sheer stupidity! :cuss:
 
Assaults aren't investigated, either? So if I was visiting London, and someone popped me in the noggin with a cricket bat, the cops wouldn't even try to track the guy down?

Wow.

And if I fought back, and injured my assailant, what would happen? Would I be charged with a crime?
 
So if you are mugged or burgled in England you need to also mention in your police report that the perp uttered racial or religious slurs while assaulting you. Hate crimes must still be investigated :neener: You just have to know how to work the system.
 
It's all about gun control

It's simply a matter of gun control.
The state will not allow the citizenry to protect themselves or their property, thus allowing crime to run rampant.
The police are overwhelmed because of the increase in crime and so they have to prioritize and apply their limited resources to the more serious crimes.
If the state allowed citizens to protect themselves and their property (which most of us consider a God-given right) then the crime rate would reduce again and police could investigate most crimes properly again.
Obvious to most of us here :banghead: but to the liberals, well, they just don't get it :scrutiny: .
 
Try telling a New Yorker burglary doesn't matter
By Janet Daley
(Filed: 15/01/2003)


The Lord Chief Justice has clarified his controversial guidelines on burglary sentencing. That's what it says here, anyway, in the official statement. What exactly does this clarification make clear?

Given the rumpus produced by his initial judgment - that first- or even second-time burglars should not be sent to prison - you might have expected Lord Woolf to be saying, "No, no - you got it all wrong. My remarks were misrepresented. I was quoted out of context." Some hokum or other that really meant, whoops, that was a gigantic mistake - I'll take it back now.

Some of you may even have believed, with infinite charity, that Lord Woolf could not possibly have meant what he was originally described as having said. Ah, you might have thought, here it comes: the corrective clarification. At last, we will hear what he actually intended when he seemed to be advising every delinquent in the country that a bit of amateur breaking and entering would be treated gently by the courts, and who cares what the victims think.

Well, try as I might, I cannot see what Lord Woolf has clarified. Except that he is utterly unrepentant. What he personally appears to be clear about - and which he intends to make clear (hence, the word "clarify") to anyone who has criticised him - is that his guidelines, which are precisely what they appeared to be at first glance, are not a "charter for burglars".

What is "inaccurate" about the treatment of his recommendations on sentencing is not the reporting of them, but the objections to them. People who argue, as the Association of Chief Police Officers and the Victims of Crime Trust do, that Lord Woolf's guidelines are a lurch toward leniency, are simply wrong. They will, he states flatly, act as a deterrent (a better one than prison, presumably), and help to protect the public. Is that clear enough?

Short of legislating the independence of the judiciary out the window (which David Blunkett seems to be considering), the Government can do nothing about Lord Woolf's view that the public is best protected by keeping criminals in its midst. But it will still carry the electoral can - as governments do - for the consequences of his sentencing policy.

Any possibility of escape from that responsibility was effectively demolished by the intervention of the Lord Chancellor, Derry Irvine, who, unlike Lord Woolf, is a government minister. Not only did he wholeheartedly endorse the Lord Chief Justice's guidelines but he blithely delivered himself of the opinion that "most people" were not disturbed at "first-time or even second-time burglars - where there are no aggravated elements in the burglary - not going to prison".

(So remember, the next time you are burgled, to dwell for a moment on whether the criminal who has ripped through your most personal belongings and made you feel unsafe in your own home was engaging in this activity for the first, or perhaps second, time. If so, please make an effort to feel less threatened and "disturbed" at the prospect of his continuing to dwell in your neighbourhood.)

The police complain about soft sentencing, but they are getting into the same spirit themselves. They have made it clear that domestic burglary has dropped right down their list of priorities. The Metropolitan Police have now said that they will largely ignore more than half of London burglaries and investigate only those where there is a strong likelihood of conviction.

This, they proclaim proudly, vastly improves their clear-up figures. The fewer cases they take on, the more impressive is the proportion that they solve. Here, clearly, is a solution to all of our public service problems: train companies should schedule only one train per day on each route, which they will guarantee to run on time, thereby achieving a 100 per cent punctuality record and an instant triumph for government target-setting.

There seems to me to be a common theme behind the Woolf-Irvine line on burglary sentences and the police's policy that this is now a crime that can often be ignored. Crimes against property are clearly being downgraded, as acts of violence against the person become more common in Britain.

What, after all, is the value of mere household chattels when life and limb are at stake on the streets? Given limited resources - whether it be police man hours or prison accommodation - we must concentrate on the biggest, nastiest crimes and let the little tiddlers go.

This argument is, on the basis of the hugely successful New York experience of reducing crime, totally wrong. At the risk of repeating what has been recited endlessly: New York discovered that, by rigorously pursuing the smaller offences (such as jumping over subway turnstiles without paying), anti-social hooliganism and the vandalism of property, they were able to create an atmosphere of public decency and order which made the detection and prosecution of major crime tractable.

The reason that a potentially chaotic, multicultural city such as New York was able to get a grip on crime was connected to the profound belief in American political culture that the opinions and concerns of ordinary people matter.

I cannot imagine any American political figure making the arrogant, patronising remarks that Lord Irvine made - implying that it was really rather plebeian to be vengeful about amateur house-breakers. Everybody started poor in America (at least a generation or so back): the idea that the property you have struggled to acquire should be treated with airy aristocratic disdain would not go down well. (Nor would the argument that poverty is a lifelong excuse for behaving badly.)

What we urgently need to have clarified is the purpose of the criminal justice system that exists to protect the law-abiding. That is what it is for. If it also succeeds in reform or rehabilitation that is fine, but that is not its primary function. Without that clear understanding, we are lost.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/15/ixopinion.html
 
MADNESS RULES....

I'm originally from the u-k, i used to live in a real rough part until i saw sense and moved to the quiet, safe Toronto :D

There was a sort of unwritten rule passed between us guy's of the over 5'5" 200lb brigade, if you caught a bg robbing your dear old granny, you should beat the crap out of him, but make sure you left him sitting on the devil's knee, when the cops arrived you showed them the BIG BIG KNIFE he used to attack you, and you were only defending yourself and your granny, and were really horrified when he suddenly stopped breathing.....that way it was self defence......and you would usually get away with it.....beat him up and leave him breathing, you get stiffed by him in court, and do time.......
 
This sort of thing has gone on for decades in one form or another. At one time the crime book would be kept locked away to stop officers entering pointless undetectable crimes in it, and recovered stolen property would be routinely put down as lost property to avoid recording an unsolvable crime.
 
And if I fought back, and injured my assailant, what would happen? Would I be charged with a crime?

What are you, dense? Your assault on the guy who was, at the time, assaulting you would be "solvable." Thus the book would be thrown at you.

I love the fact that an "assault" is unsolvable, as is a vandalism, but a "hate crime" is a worthy use of resources and must be pursued.

I don't know what you get over there, Ag, but over here most of what are called "hate crimes" are assaults and vandalism. I guess some animals are still more equal than others.
 
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