Brother is going fishing in Alaska- What should I loan him?

What should I loan to my brother?

  • .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk (5.5" Blued) loaded with 335 gr LFN +P Buffalo Bore or ???

    Votes: 99 44.2%
  • .41 Mag S&W 657 (6" Stainless) loaded with 210 gr JSP Remington or ???

    Votes: 45 20.1%
  • .44 Special S&W 624 (4" Stainless) loaded with hot LSWC/LFN from BB, DT or Grizzly

    Votes: 25 11.2%
  • .45 Colt S&W 625MG (4" Stainless- Night Sights) loaded with a BB or DT heavy standard pressure LSWC

    Votes: 36 16.1%
  • .357 Mag Ruger Police Service-Six (4" Blued) loaded with 180 gr Federal Cast Cores or BB/DT equiv

    Votes: 19 8.5%

  • Total voters
    224
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KodiakBeer -

Not to divert this discussion onto a literary tangent, but are you familiar with the book "Coming Into The Country" by John McPhee? In it, McPhee discusses Alaska and its residents and many interesting stories about locals there.

McPhee tells of a man in AK who refuses to carry a gun because (if I recall correctly) this fellow believes that a man who carries a gun is more likely to be noticed/attacked by bears due to an aggressive "psychic footprint", if you will (the bears can sense the aggression and respond in kind).

I read what you write here with great interest, and my wife and I enjoyed the photo of your wife, doggie, and rifle - great photo.

Thank you for sharing your experiences,

gd
 
KodiakBeer -

Not to divert this discussion onto a literary tangent, but are you familiar with the book "Coming Into The Country" by John McPhee? In it, McPhee discusses Alaska and its residents and many interesting stories about locals there.

McPhee tells of a man in AK who refuses to carry a gun because (if I recall correctly) this fellow believes that a man who carries a gun is more likely to be noticed/attacked by bears due to an aggressive "psychic footprint", if you will (the bears can sense the aggression and respond in kind).

I read what you write here with great interest, and my wife and I enjoyed the photo of your wife, doggie, and rifle - great photo.

Thank you for sharing your experiences,

gd
I dunno how much of that notion I'd buy. I'd put my money on a bear reacting quicker to:

Fear
The scent of a woman's cycle (No, I'm not being a smartass either).
 
I don't know why the argument keeps getting tossed up about how slow a long gun is to get into play. It just isn't true and there are a number of options.
Because of the picture YOU posted of the guy fishing with a shotgun slung across his back as an example of a better solution than a heavy sixgun on the hip.
 
Lets also not forget that if you talk to people that have had encounters and with F&G, they will tell you: If in the highly unlikely case the bear does charge. The first will be a false charge. Followed up my other possible behavior including aggressive posturing or the bear may leave the scene. If you dont calmly go the opposite direction it could get ugly though.

I dont think I would wait to see if the charge was false. Lead would be headed his direction. In that instance I could see a time window for getting a gun into play more effectively.
 
Because of the picture YOU posted of the guy fishing with a shotgun slung across his back as an example of a better solution than a heavy sixgun on the hip.

Oh, then let me clear that up. You don't have to carry it like that.
 
McPhee tells of a man in AK who refuses to carry a gun because (if I recall correctly) this fellow believes that a man who carries a gun is more likely to be noticed/attacked by bears due to an aggressive "psychic footprint", if you will (the bears can sense the aggression and respond in kind).

Timothy Treadwell used to preach the same thing. Not anymore though, cuz a bear ate him.
 
Oh, then let me clear that up. You don't have to carry it like that.
Then how exactly would you carry your shotgun, while you were fishing or doing some other chore like chopping firewood, that makes it a better solution than a heavy sixgun on your hip? Which was the context of the discussion, that a sixgun on the hip is far more convenient than toting your long arm around with you 24/7. Because eventually, you WILL have to put it down.....for something.


I dont think I would wait to see if the charge was false.
I agree, unless a bear gives a telltale sign of his intentions, such as the ears on an elephant. Do they? Never heard of any. Given the much more lenient and understanding legal ramifications, not to mention being in my native country, I'd be much more inclined to shoot the bear than I would an elephant.
 
Lets also not forget that if you talk to people that have had encounters and with F&G, they will tell you: If in the highly unlikely case the bear does charge. The first will be a false charge. Followed up my other possible behavior including aggressive posturing or the bear may leave the scene. If you dont calmly go the opposite direction it could get ugly though.

I dont think I would wait to see if the charge was false. Lead would be headed his direction. In that instance I could see a time window for getting a gun into play more effectively.
******************

Another myth brought to you by the wonderful folks at F and G , in the incident I cited where I shot the sow with a Blackhawk there was NO false charge , nor was there one with the guy who shot the big boar down towards Soldotna that he didn't even know as there until it was coming for him.

Can't speak in any type of absolute as regards these bears , the only absolute that's applicable being that there are absolutely NO absolutes.

As goes Treadwell , he was an idiot , unfortunately he got that girl killed along with him.
 
Lets also not forget that if you talk to people that have had encounters and with F&G, they will tell you: If in the highly unlikely case the bear does charge. The first will be a false charge. Followed up my other possible behavior including aggressive posturing or the bear may leave the scene. If you dont calmly go the opposite direction it could get ugly though.

I dont think I would wait to see if the charge was false. Lead would be headed his direction. In that instance I could see a time window for getting a gun into play more effectively.
******************

Another myth brought to you by the wonderful folks at F and G , in the incident I cited where I shot the sow with a Blackhawk there was NO false charge , nor was there one with the guy who shot the big boar down towards Soldotna that he didn't even know as there until it was coming for him.

Can't speak in any type of absolute as regards these bears , the only absolute that's applicable being that there are absolutely NO absolutes.

As goes Treadwell , he was an idiot , unfortunately he got that girl killed along with him.
Didnt the guy in Soldotna kill that big griz with a 9mm sem-auto? I know one was killed that way a couple of years ago on the Kenai?
 
I agree, unless a bear gives a telltale sign of his intentions, such as the ears on an elephant. Do they? Never heard of any.

When a bear is serious, his ears go flat, his eyes narrow to slits, he doesn't make a sound. He just runs at you full tilt.

When a bear is merely displaying he puffs up, his ears are up, he "chuffs", pops his jaws, pounds the ground, walks or runs back and forth, etc. That's why they call it a "display".

Then how exactly would you carry your shotgun, while you were fishing or doing some other chore like chopping firewood, that makes it a better solution than a heavy sixgun on your hip?

I really don't worry about it. Bears generally attack when they're surprised. You move into their zone and wake them up or walk into a cub and sow situation, etc. You generally go to them, they don't come to you.

People "attacked" while fishing are just dealing with some bear making a display because he wants his fishing hole back. They're not in any real danger, though it makes for a great bar story.

If they are really looking at you as dinner, they like to come in late at night when you're sleeping and drag you out of the tent.
 
Lets also not forget that if you talk to people that have had encounters and with F&G, they will tell you: If in the highly unlikely case the bear does charge. The first will be a false charge.

I've never heard of such a thing and I know plenty of people at F&G. If a bear charges you, shoot it. Anybody at F&G will tell you that.
If it puffs up and makes a display you don't need to shoot it, but you won't be charged with anything if you do.
 
This thread has gone a lot further than I could have imagined!

Thanks to all for your input!

Couple of key points to remember:

My brother is fishing at the Tsiu River delta/beach- a very OPEN area with little coverage to hide and or surprise a bear. They are NOT bushwhacking!

A shotgun will be present at the site, and will be brought out when bears are in the vicinity

My brother has done this same trip for several years, so is familiar with the area.

NOBODY in my brothers party has a desire to confront a bear. They will retreat as necessary to avoid an issue.

I will let you know what we decide!
 
I've never heard of such a thing and I know plenty of people at F&G. If a bear charges you, shoot it. Anybody at F&G will tell you that.
If it puffs up and makes a display you don't need to shoot it, but you won't be charged with anything if you do.
Im telling you. I was just at the Alaska Sportsman Show this spring and they had a big display of F&G giving out info on what to do in case of... stuff. I spoke to the F&G lady that was lecturing a tourist and she got a bit ticked when I interjected on the "Bear Charge" lecture and told the tourista to shoot first and ask forgiveness later. She told me that I was wrong and that an initial charge is false, to stand your ground, make yourself "bigger" lol...I love that one and dont run.
 
I don't know who the F&G lady was, but none of the F&G people I know would give such advice. It sounds like she's repeating info by rote from a pamphlet, not having any actual experience - the type of person they'd send to a Sport Show. Probably some grad student from New Jersey crunching data at headquarters...

It's always good advice to stand your ground and make yourself bigger (and all the rest of that stuff on the pamphlets) when "confronting" a bear. But any of the field people would tell you to shoot an attacking bear, and they are the ones who make the call to file charges or not.
If you look back, very few people are ever charged for killing a bear and it happens dozens of times a year. When somebody does get charged, it's a pretty clear cut case of stupidity and well deserved.
 
My brother has done this same trip for several years, so is familiar with the area.

What gun(s) has he taken with him in the past?

Why do you feel it's your responsibility to arm him with one of your guns?
 
What gun(s) has he taken with him in the past?

As I stated in an earlier post, my brother has just recently returned moved back from Singapore and had NO access to his personal firearms stored here in the lower 48. The friend who flies them into the fishing area has a pump shotgun with slugs available in the plane.

Why do you feel it's your responsibility to arm him with one of your guns?

That's an odd question. Why can't I loan my brother a gun if I want to? He loaned plenty of stuff to me over the years...

My brother is a VP of Project Analyst Firm who has been very busy trying to moved back into his house after renting it out for 5 years. Going shopping for a bear gun has not been real high on the priority list, especially when I have several he could use without issue.
 
It's an issue because usually, if someone doesn't own guns, that's because they're not too interested in them.

If they're not too interested, they won't practice. If they won't practice, they won't develop the skill required to do the job they're carrying the gun for in the first place.

Your last post indicates that NONE of this applies to said brother, which is good !

Get him to the range to get familiar with the Ruger .45 Colt, get a good crossdraw holster like the Bianchi Cyclone #111 or the Galco Phoenix. Or, a shoulder rig from Lawman leather.
 
Didnt the guy in Soldotna kill that big griz with a 9mm sem-auto? I know one was killed that way a couple of years ago on the Kenai?
*******************

Nope , Ruger in .454 Casull.........
 
Didnt the guy in Soldotna kill that big griz with a 9mm sem-auto? I know one was killed that way a couple of years ago on the Kenai?
*******************

Nope , Ruger in .454 Casull.........
It was a different incident then. I know it was a 9mm. Was in the papers and on the web for a bit. Danged lucky guy.
 
Grew up in interior Alaska. Where I hunt (when i make it back) their are lot of black bear, few if any grizzlys. I carried a S&W M. 29 44 mag w/6 inch barrel for a couple years until i figured out that that sucked. Now its a 4 inch security six 357 mag. Much more enjoyable experience.

A handgun on your hip in Alaska is for peace of mind and for two legged unfriendlies. If you really want to deter a bear attack (the odds of being attacked are quite low) carry pepper spray.

Kodiakbeer has been right on in his suggestions from what i have read. When a bear attacks for real, there will be little or no warning. A burst of pepper fog released in a panic would probly serve you better than 2 or 3 rounds of .454 launched in the direction of the 2000 bound ball of fangs and claws that are bearing down on you.
 
Grew up in interior Alaska. Where I hunt (when i make it back) their are lot of black bear, few if any grizzlys. I carried a S&W M. 29 44 mag w/6 inch barrel for a couple years until i figured out that that sucked. Now its a 4 inch security six 357 mag. Much more enjoyable experience.

A handgun on your hip in Alaska is for peace of mind and for two legged unfriendlies. If you really want to deter a bear attack (the odds of being attacked are quite low) carry pepper spray.

Kodiakbeer has been right on in his suggestions from what i have read. When a bear attacks for real, there will be little or no warning. A burst of pepper fog released in a panic would probly serve you better than 2 or 3 rounds of .454 launched in the direction of the 2000 bound ball of fangs and claws that are bearing down on you.
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As I've stated earlier I personally don't care for the sprays , for them to be effective the bear is way ,way ,WAY too close , by that time I'm already shooting.

And no offense but can we keep the weights in the world of reality , there's never been a 2000 lb Brown bear taken , there *might* be one out there but I have my doubts feel free to post a cite and/or pictures if you've got 'em. The two biggest on record are one shot by a ten year old girl from Talkeetna at 11'4" and allegedly 1800 lbs and 29 and a sixteenth on the Boone and Crockett scale , look at the pictures and note that he was hogfat. The there is the one shot on Hinchinbrook Island by an airman form up at Eielson that went ( aleegedly) 12'6" and allegedly 1600 lbs , there is some controversy on that weight and height though it WAS verified that that particular bear had killed at least two and maybe more humans and consumed them. But as I said there is a great deal of controversy about that particular bear. REAL size is most likely around the 10'6" and 1200 lb mark , and the guy actually shot it with a .338 mag NOT a 7mm mag , though it's verified that seven 7mm slugs and four .38s were found in the bear when skinned out , the .38s belonging to a hiker whose dead body and empty pistol were found later. It was big yes , but nowhere near a world record

Note that the one in the Anchorage airport was around 1700 live and was the worlds record for a looonnggg time till the girl from Talkeetna got hers.

It's fairly common to see a thousand to 1200 lb boar , the sow that came after me went 970 ,unusually large for the interior. But there aren't any 2000 lb bears.

And the coastal bears are quite a bit larger than the interior bears ( usually). And yes this is all rather academic since a 150 lb black can easily kill you if it gets to you and wants to , that said can we not overinflate the size and weights?

Though the biggest *polar bear* recorded is 2200 plus lbs and over 12 feet , but face it there are few of us that will ver get a chance to even SEE a Polar Bear , much less hunt/shoot one. And average weight on Polar bears is still in the 900 to 1300 range for boars.

They undoubtedly ARE the worlds biggest meanest junkyard dog if they choose to be , with not only teeth but a handful of switchblades at all four corners.
 
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The there is the one shot on Hinchinbrook Island by an airman form up at Eielson that went ( aleegedly) 12'6" and allegedly 1600 lbs , there is some controversy on that weight and height though it WAS verified that that particular bear had killed at least two and maybe more humans and consumed them.

That was one of those Internet things that got out of hand. It was actually just a good bear, but not even the largest taken that year. I think it was 10'2" or something like that. The maneater stuff was all hype.

The biggest bear I know of (because it was actually weighed instead of guesstimated) was just over 1600 pounds. It was shot DLP at a cannery near Larsen Bay and they hung it from the fish scales and it went 1600 and change. No doubt bigger bears have been taken, but since nobody ever has a scale out in the middle of nowhere, it's all speculation.
 
That was one of those Internet things that got out of hand. It was actually just a good bear, but not even the largest taken that year. I think it was 10'2" or something like that. The maneater stuff was all hype.

The biggest bear I know of (because it was actually weighed instead of guesstimated) was just over 1600 pounds. It was shot DLP at a cannery near Larsen Bay and they hung it from the fish scales and it went 1600 and change. No doubt bigger bears have been taken, but since nobody ever has a scale out in the middle of nowhere, it's all speculation.
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I know , that's what I said , it was actually 10'6" or so and somewhere around 1200 , and the internet stories were wrong when they said he shot it with a 7mm mag he actually used a .338 mag.

Seems that a lot of bear stories are as bad as fish stories , I've never seen a 140 lb salmon either but a lot of folks with no Alaska expeirence will tell you those stories.

Then again I hear a lot of stories about 800 lb hogs too , never seen one that went 800 except for domestics in a farmers hogpen , 400 isn't unusual but 800? ppulllllleeeassseeee , Hogzilla turned out to be another internet inflation/hoax too.
 
One of the things that amuses me, is when I read "A brown bear can stand ten feet high, blah, blah, blah..." in some newspaper or magazine. Non-hunters don't understand that the "ten feet" is actually the hide measurement. They're trying to impress, but they actually underestimate the size. I'm sure you know this, but because a "ten foot bear" gets an extra 3 feet when it stands on his hind legs, he actually stands 12 to 13 feet high.

The first time I ever saw a really big browny up close, it was that same sort of feeling of unreality that you get when you see the Grand Canyon for the first time. I was holding a .243 at the time and he was putting on a show. I didn't know whether to crap or go blind. I thought I had stepped into the Pleistocene...
 
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