GoRon
Member
I wanted a Federal appointee who would come to my house and put up the plastic with duct tape. Not some "rugged individualist" who expects me to do it for myself!
Brown resigns
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I wanted a Federal appointee who would come to my house and put up the plastic with duct tape. Not some "rugged individualist" who expects me to do it for myself!Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
FEMA staged assets ahead of Katrina's arrival. they couldn't get in until roadwaays were cleared--and that took time.
I can hear it now: "FEMA should have had a warehouse full of chainsaws, and fuel mix with Sta-Bil, and front-end loaders to push trees, and, and, why didn't they DO THAT?"
No full-bore federal effort after any hurricane has ever been up to speed before two to five days, depending on location. Before FEMA, since FEMA, no matter.
FEMA's a coordinating and check-writing entity, not an action entity. Brown's a scapegoat. he might not be a real competent leader, but he'd done okay on the paper-pushing, which is 90% of his job. It looks to me like his tactical error was in not delivering a drop-kick to some Louisiana crotches; he's just not mean enough. And, of course, not having any of his staff watching TV, so he'd have known the convoy to the Metrodome had been turned back...
Since Hurricane Celia, in 1970, we've burdened ourselves with layer upon layer of bureaucracy in the name of disaster relief. I've heard of speed-reading, but those Congresscritters have speedwriters on their staffs. This lwa, that law and another law. Each one has its own "how to" manual, and each one makes less sense than the one before.
Back then, I mostly saw USCE folks and Red Cross, plus the Texas Department of Public Safety guys and the workforce from the Texas Highway Department. It took several days for the full force of electric workers and phone guys to show up in force. Corpus Christi was back in fair shape in a couple of weeks. I guess the biggest problems were downed trees, mobile home pieces, and sheet iron from roofs and commercial builldings.
Nowadays? A giant bureaaucratic clusterwhoopee, with everybody and his dog looking for face time with the TV folks...
And We've now seen the worst storm known to anybody in the United States to contend with, with the main population body being in one of the most corrupt and venal states of the union.
Art
I can hear it now: "FEMA should have had a warehouse full of chainsaws, and fuel mix with Sta-Bil, and front-end loaders to push trees, and, and, why didn't they DO THAT?"
No full-bore federal effort after any hurricane has ever been up to speed before two to five days, depending on location. Before FEMA, since FEMA, no matter.
FEMA's a coordinating and check-writing entity, not an action entity. Brown's a scapegoat. he might not be a real competent leader, but he'd done okay on the paper-pushing, which is 90% of his job. It looks to me like his tactical error was in not delivering a drop-kick to some Louisiana crotches; he's just not mean enough. And, of course, not having any of his staff watching TV, so he'd have known the convoy to the Metrodome had been turned back...
Since Hurricane Celia, in 1970, we've burdened ourselves with layer upon layer of bureaucracy in the name of disaster relief. I've heard of speed-reading, but those Congresscritters have speedwriters on their staffs. This lwa, that law and another law. Each one has its own "how to" manual, and each one makes less sense than the one before.
Back then, I mostly saw USCE folks and Red Cross, plus the Texas Department of Public Safety guys and the workforce from the Texas Highway Department. It took several days for the full force of electric workers and phone guys to show up in force. Corpus Christi was back in fair shape in a couple of weeks. I guess the biggest problems were downed trees, mobile home pieces, and sheet iron from roofs and commercial builldings.
Nowadays? A giant bureaaucratic clusterwhoopee, with everybody and his dog looking for face time with the TV folks...
And We've now seen the worst storm known to anybody in the United States to contend with, with the main population body being in one of the most corrupt and venal states of the union.
Art
Graystar
Member
You mean besides an area the size of England being underwater? I didn’t realize Greyhound buses were amphibious.
Graystar
Member
You assume incorrectly. The network people that were there were already there when the storm hit, and they were stuck there just like everyone else. When they ran out of power, some were sending in their reports through the pay phones which, unbelievably, still worked.
No_Brakes23
Member
How far down does that slippery slope go? Should there not be any Fire Departments, public Hospitals or Ambulance companies?
Hi, WhereI live the fire dept is Volunteer and so is the ambulance service. What people should realize is that more government may not be the best way to run every last thing. FEMA's problem is that it is run like a civil service and it needed to respond like the armed forces. That's why there was so much nonsense about following proceedures and rules and butt covering.
pete
pete
cropcirclewalker
member
The purpose of .gov is to do for us, that which we cannot do for ourselves.
state.gov or local.gov does fires, ambulances and hospitals. Many of those are in competition with "for profit" enterprises.
Please.
Nobody forced these people to make bad decisions. Except, maybe for the prisoners, .gov owes them nothing.
No_Brakes23
Member
So then your answer is that State and Civic intrusion is okay, but not federal intrusion?
cropcirclewalker
member
I don't know, is that a trick question?
Since they are not enumerated in the constitution, they are off limits to fed.gov.
Says to me that the "intrusion" of which you speak, like fire suppression, ambulance services and hospitals are powers reserved to the states or the people.
Since they are not enumerated in the constitution, they are off limits to fed.gov.
Vern Humphrey
Member
To be fair, part of FEMA's problem is that corruption is going to appear wherever money is handed out without controls -- and FEMA will be blamed if money gets syphoned off.
There's a story on the internet about some poor fellow who didn't have flood insurance. He went to FEMA and they actually processed a claim and cut him a check -- but they told him if he cashed it, he'd have to have flood insurance for the next five years and pay the premium.
Imagine that -- they pay even when you don't have a policy, and only require you to get one later -- at rock bottom premium rates.
This freeloader is outraged and screaming at the top of his lungs about how FEMA tried to screw HIM!!
No_Brakes23
Member
Good answer.
The original quote had equated FEMA with Govt intrusion, and I doubted that any sane person would prefer a total lack of services, so the question was at what point does it quit being a life-saving service and start being govt intrusion.
Using a constitutional base to determine that it stops at a state and civic level seems like a perfectly reasonable position.
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